God, or not? A Christian Discussion

Paco Dennis said:
God or not, what has been presented by the OP has been a series of sermons/lectures on how @Boon54 arranges his world. There are 8 billion other views. If people like to wallow in their own playground, it is fine by me, but it is a lot of work for nothing. :)
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Depends on the goal. If the intent was to engage with others on the topic of God, religion, interpretation of the Bible (a mutually agreed upon version), then it’s probably been worth the effort.

I used to be a Christain and I can attest that it can be very fulfilling to discuss the topics above, with other Christians. Like discussing any subject one is passionate about with like-minded people.
 

Medusa said:
@Boon54, I want to clear up, just quickly, that my intent in post #184 was not to imply that all long posts are inconsiderate or lacking thought for the audience. Some topics require them. Some people enjoy them, regardless of topic.

I would be sad to think a post I wrote could have, even inadvertently, led to you or anyone else feeling disparaged.
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Dear Medusa, not at all. My response was all in fun, in the same spirit as the community here. You have all been very supportive and I truly appreciate it.
 
Paco Dennis said:
God or not, what has been presented by the OP has been a series of sermons/lectures on how @Boon54 arranges his world. There are 8 billion other views. If people like to wallow in their own playground, it is fine by me, but it is a lot of work for nothing. :)
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Not for me. Being able to share my views with such gentle company has been a real privilege and it has, believe it or not, brought me closer to God. Yes, there are billions of other views, but not all completely different. Many of these views are shared and sharing different views is how we learn and grow.
 

Medusa said:
Depends on the goal. If the intent was to engage with others on the topic of God, religion, interpretation of the Bible (a mutually agreed upon version), then it’s probably been worth the effort.

I used to be a Christain and I can attest that it can be very fulfilling to discuss the topics above, with other Christians. Like discussing any subject one is passionate about with like-minded people.
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Yes. It had been fulfilling for me. Even those with differing views in this community have been nothing but supportive.
 
oslooskar said:
I don’t think anyone is saying faith isn’t real. For example, my belief in God is real, but that doesn’t necessarily mean my God is.
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oslooskar said:
I don’t think anyone is saying faith isn’t real. For example, my belief in God is real, but that doesn’t necessarily mean my God is.
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oslooskar said:
I don’t think anyone is saying faith isn’t real. For example, my belief in God is real, but that doesn’t necessarily mean my God is.
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Sorry, you lost me.
 
We are the experiment just like the rest in the universe, most likely in every Galaxi !
we are special just like all the rest are! Gaze at all the Billions of Galaxi as far as a
scope can see.

We have the Gravity advantage on Earth. Other Worlds gravities may be different
giving Birds an advantage, or more water giving Sea life the way.

Possibly the point is the universe is a lot bigger than the modern stupid theory.
 
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Faith and Reality
You guys have brought out the need in me to write again, LOL. G.K. Chesterton famously responded to a challenge by writing a book and warned his opponent not to challenge him further or he might write another book. Seems like I have some of his traits.

The thing is, our grasp on reality is entirely confined to what we can experience and our experience is captured in the moment, this moment, Now. I teasingly ask my students, how long is a moment? The answer is, the moment is as long as your lifetime.

Both modern psychology and Buddhism, amongst other faiths, including Christianity, tells us not to worry about the future:
“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
— Matthew 6:34 (NIV)

But how? There's so much we need to and should worry about. We can simply shrug and not care, since we can't do anything about it. But that would seem callous.

For Christians, and perhaps other people of different religious or non-religious faiths, we put our faith in God. I need not add that God, at this point, is what we might call the Great Beyond.

But that's not all. We believe, even though there's good evidence to the contrary, that if we live our lives right, we are less likely to fall prey to retaliation and ill-will. We hope that all will be well and since we have no confidence in the universe, we pray to God to make it so. The more worried we are, the more we turn to God. Put another way, the less hope we have, the more faith we need.

For many, without this faith, going against evidence, life would not be livable. We might not be able to even venture past our front door.
 
Boon54 said:
The more worried we are, the more we turn to God. Put another way, the less hope we have, the more faith we need.

For many, without this faith, going against evidence, life would not be livable. We might not be able to even venture past our front door.
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The question of what is consciousness belongs in the field of philosophy. Like the question of, is there a God? What came before the Big Bang?, it's something that requires an immense process of aligning thoughts, ideas, concepts and feelings; it'll be a question asked for our entire tenure as a species. In the mean time, we'll be presented with countless concepts and ideas. Some will resonate, some not.

Still, I question the remaining quoted text. Firstly, hope for what? What outcome are you hoping for? For those with a belief in God, I assume a place in heaven, but if you take belief in a higher power out of the equation you're not left with hollow hope, you're left with acceptance and contentment.

The argument goes thus: I believe I'm an animal. I'm part of nature. Just as are cats, dogs, donkeys and ducks. We're part of the process of life on our planet. We come, and we go. We come from nothing, we return to nothing. This is based on the evidence all around us. We see creatures live and die all the time, and we see them decay and fade away.

As such, today is as wonderful and incredible as yesterday, and (hopefully) tomorrow. Every day is lived as though, in your belief, God were standing by my side. I hope I wake tomorrow, but while I write this I'm awake and each minute is a wonderful thing. On that, I'm content.

I question your statement that for some "without this faith, going against evidence, life would not be livable". Firstly, what evidence? Secondly, why would it not be livable? Are you suggesting that those with a faith in a higher being couldn't cope with living with the reality of our existence if it didn't include a God? Why not? Doesn't this simply point to a conclusion that believers are so entrenched in their belief that an alternative is unfathomable? Isn't that a weakness?
 
VaughanJB said:
The question of what is consciousness belongs in the field of philosophy. Like the question of, is there a God? What came before the Big Bang?, it's something that requires an immense process of aligning thoughts, ideas, concepts and feelings; it'll be a question asked for our entire tenure as a species. In the mean time, we'll be presented with countless concepts and ideas. Some will resonate, some not.

Still, I question the remaining quoted text. Firstly, hope for what? What outcome are you hoping for? For those with a belief in God, I assume a place in heaven, but if you take belief in a higher power out of the equation you're not left with hollow hope, you're left with acceptance and contentment.

The argument goes thus: I believe I'm an animal. I'm part of nature. Just as are cats, dogs, donkeys and ducks. We're part of the process of life on our planet. We come, and we go. We come from nothing, we return to nothing. This is based on the evidence all around us. We see creatures live and die all the time, and we see them decay and fade away.

As such, today is as wonderful and incredible as yesterday, and (hopefully) tomorrow. Every day is lived as though, in your belief, God were standing by my side. I hope I wake tomorrow, but while I write this I'm awake and each minute is a wonderful thing. On that, I'm content.

I question your statement that for some "without this faith, going against evidence, life would not be livable". Firstly, what evidence? Secondly, why would it not be livable? Are you suggesting that those with a faith in a higher being couldn't cope with living with the reality of our existence if it didn't include a God? Why not? Doesn't this simply point to a conclusion that believers are so entrenched in their belief that an alternative is unfathomable? Isn't that a weakness?
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So it is. I am not making a philosophical argument but a psychological fact. In a world which overwhelms us, for those who are not fearless, we cling on to "unreasonable" faith. It's an observable phenomenon. What you believe often influence what happens to you, from the placebo effect to luck to success. It's what drives the common folk, why they are so resilient while many others who don't have faith struggle.
 
Boon54 said:
So it is. I am not making a philosophical argument but a psychological fact. In a world which overwhelms us, for those who are not fearless, we cling on to "unreasonable" faith. It's an observable phenomenon. What you believe often influence what happens to you, from the placebo effect to luck to success. It's what drives the common folk, why they are so resilient while many others who don't have faith struggle.
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Without wanting to dig too deeply into it, I live by a simple rule: I govern what goes through my eyes and into my mind. I curate what I expose myself to.

You could live a life entrenched in Social Media with its silos and influencers, and allow all of that (muck) into your mind, which in turn will help fashion who you are. This comes with the too frequently ignored option to not let it in. As the saying goes, Garbage In, Garbage Out.

It's a choice we sometimes make unconsciously. My disdain for Social Media is well documented here, but I accept it is a conditioning factor for many today.
 
Boon54 said:
So it is. I am not making a philosophical argument but a psychological fact. In a world which overwhelms us, for those who are not fearless, we cling on to "unreasonable" faith. It's an observable phenomenon. What you believe often influence what happens to you, from the placebo effect to luck to success. It's what drives the common folk, why they are so resilient while many others who don't have faith struggle.
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I am not a fan of Karl Marx' writings but one thing clicked with me.

The quote "Religion is the opiate of the masses" is often attributed to Karl Marx, who used it to express his view that religion serves as a tool for social control, providing comfort to people in difficult circumstances while distracting them from the realities of their oppression. The phrase suggests that religion can numb the pain of suffering, much like opiates, and can prevent individuals from seeking real solutions to their problems.

Is it so hard to believe that a small group of people, way back in our past, created a movement that steamrolled into something not because it had the ring of truth, but because it was socially popular amongst the striving masses?
 
David later version said:
You are correct. Faith is merely unsubstantiated belief. That's not much to hang your hat on, IMO.

-David-
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As an atheist, I've often been told by Christians that they have "faith". I'm not trying to turn everybody into atheists, but I do have a question. About 1,600 years ago, Christianity became the law of the land. In Egypt, people were put to death for believing in "pagan" gods, like Re, Horus, Isis, etc. I assume that since they went to their deaths believing in those gods, they had "faith". I'm curious how Christians reconcile faith in "pagan gods" with Christian "faith" since each truly believes.
 

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