United States and Israel attack Iran Early Saturday Morning

Ted01 said:
... I know that I don't trust anything in the news and always parse everything that I read or hear. Between political ideological spin and the media's spin it's a difficult task to do... for me anyway.
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It's very difficult. News programs and the channels that broadcast them are owned by corporations now, and the corporate heads decide how current events will be framed and reported with their financial and political agendas in mind.
 
Ted01 said:
it seems that that's the way the Iranian people want to go... but who knows?
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This is something I have wondered about for years. Fascist authoritarians do not operate in a vacuum. They appeal to the whims, disinterest, and weakness of the society they control. Obviously there were Iranians who just lived with it, but a huge faction, almost a majority that rallied behind the Ayatollah, and are still taking to the streets today.

That doesn't sound like an atmosphere of change. It's dissatisfaction to an extent, but the actual goals of the society as a whole are kind of a wild cards. I still have hopes, but I don't have that giddy feeling that some are having right now.
 
JustDave said:
This is something I have wondered about for years. Fascist authoritarians do not operate in a vacuum. They appeal to the whims, disinterest, and weakness of the society they control. Obviously there were Iranians who just lived with it, but a huge faction, almost a majority that rallied behind the Ayatollah, and are still taking to the streets today.

That doesn't sound like an atmosphere of change. It's dissatisfaction to an extent, but the actual goals of the society as a whole are kind of a wild cards. I still have hopes, but I don't have that giddy feeling that some are having right now.
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Iranians just lived with it because Iran wasn't a democracy, so their only alternative was to emigrate.

Almost a majority is not a majority. The statistic I read recently said 35%. Just over 1/3 of the population are fundamental Islamist Muslims, and delighted with the regime. It's important to remember that 10s of thousands of Jewish and Christian Iranians, and Iranian citizens of certain cultures were displaced after Iran became an Islamist Republic in 1979.

Many among that diaspora will start returning to Iran when things calm down, and it's safe to do so.
 
Sunny said:
Stay tuned for the next distraction of the week.

So far, I haven't seen any mention of the fact that in this country, only Congress has the right to declare war on a foreign power. Congress was never consulted, or even informed what was about to happen. We have had an incredible amount of evidence that this is no longer a country of laws, and our Constitution apparently now means nothing. Enough said.
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War has not been declared. Congress has been advised but they initially do not need to be consulted. Congress has been informed what is happening. There have been no laws broken and it is no different than what has happened many times in the past. The Constitution has not been disregarded.

I am not saying I agree with what is happening but your stated concerns are unfounded.
 
JustDave said:
This is something I have wondered about for years. Fascist authoritarians do not operate in a vacuum. They appeal to the whims, disinterest, and weakness of the society they control. Obviously there were Iranians who just lived with it, but a huge faction, almost a majority that rallied behind the Ayatollah, and are still taking to the streets today.

That doesn't sound like an atmosphere of change. It's dissatisfaction to an extent, but the actual goals of the society as a whole are kind of a wild cards. I still have hopes, but I don't have that giddy feeling that some are having right now.
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It's kind of like in Gaza. As much suffering as Hamas has caused, they're still supported by a large percentage of Gazans and Palestinians in general. How do you deal with people like that?
 
RambleTamble said:
Total taxpayer losses from the three jets downed in Kuwait are estimated at roughly $270 million to $376 million depending on the specific equipment and replacement valuation.
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WhatInThe said:
Cost and how far down is the munitions stockpile getting. Alot has been sent to both Ukraine and Israel over the last several years. What's left for the continental US.
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And people in these countries (below) are oppressed. Maybe they could be added to future lists:

Myanmar (Burma) - people have taken armed resistance against the junta's rule.

Belarus - People are repressed under the rule ofAlexander Lukashenko and need relief.

Syria - The regime of Bashar al-Assad caused a long-running civil war, underscoring massive domestic opposition.

Sudan - The public demands a return to civilian-led democracy following the 2021 military takeover by General Abdel Fattah al-Burhan. When will they get it? Who will come to their aid?

Eritrea - A totalitarian dictatorshipunder Isaias Afwerki.

Turkmenistan - is under highly repressive,centralized rule.

Equatorial Guinea - Oppressed byTeodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo since 1979.

Laos - Controlled by the Lao People'sRevolutionary Party.

Rwanda - under Paul Kagame

Central African Republic - is under authoritarian control

Nicaragua - under Daniel Ortega, has severely oppressed the populace for almost a decade.

North Korea - The regime under Kim Jong-un ("nice guy") is one ofthe world's most repressive, with the population facing severe deprivation and no political voice, and already possesses a significant arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and has ballistic missiles capable of delivering them.
 
WhatInThe said:
Cost and how far down is the munitions stockpile getting. Alot has been sent to both Ukraine and Israel over the last several years. What's left for the continental US.
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Iran also has U.S. made F-14s sold to them back in the '70s. We also sold Iraq munitions. And then there was the Iran-Contra affair.

Anything for a buck. Money is all that matters these days.
 
MACKTEXAS said:
And people in these countries (below) are oppressed. Maybe they could be added to future lists:
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But have they been chanting "Death to America. Death to Israel" for many years and would nuke the crap out of us as soon as their stockpile of enriched uranium can be utilized? Food for thought... everyone's understanding and bottom line seems to be different.
 
@CallMeKate, you're right as this has been going on since 1979 & it's been kicked down the road for someone else to deal with.

IMO, they have made clear their intentions the entire time. I know I don't want to turn on the TV one day & find out they followed through with those threats by using a nuclear missile or a dirty bomb. How many people would then say why was this allowed to happen & why wasn't something done to prevent it?
 
CallMeKate said:
But have they been chanting "Death to America. Death to Israel" for many years and would nuke the crap out of us as soon as their stockpile of enriched uranium can be utilized? Food for thought... everyone's understanding and bottom line seems to be different.
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There are many threats (chants if you prefer) from the last entry of my post you're replying to.

This one:
North Korea - The regime under Kim Jong-un ("nice guy") is one ofthe world's most repressive, with the population facing severe deprivation and no political voice, and already possesses a significant arsenal of weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and has ballistic missiles capable of delivering them.

I don't know what chants the other nations may or may not have made, but much has been said about how great all of these new events will be for the oppressed people of Iran. [Sure - great - left to fend for themselves with 14 cities bombed and directionless.]
 
Sunny said:
Stay tuned for the next distraction of the week.

So far, I haven't seen any mention of the fact that in this country, only Congress has the right to declare war on a foreign power. Congress was never consulted, or even informed what was about to happen. We have had an incredible amount of evidence that this is no longer a country of laws, and our Constitution apparently now means nothing. Enough said.
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Although I read news from different sources, I only watch ABC news, usually on Good Morning America and World News Tonight. You can tell by the looks on the anchors' and regular consultants' faces that they are so displeased with what's going on. They have mentioned a few times that the military action was supposed to have been approved by Congress, which obviously it was not. Sadly, what I bolded of what you wrote is undeniably true! Once that became the case, there's no telling what's to come. :mad:
 
Islam is a huge religion followed by many more who no longer follow an active christian worshipful life and yet it is still smeared with disagreements and infighting and is losing it's current fight in Iran - too tough or too lenient which is the best religion?? - none ? that's anarchy isn't it?
 
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