Crate training I agree is wonderful..of course never used as punishments
I would try and start again as I would with puppies, Take then out, watch them very carefully, use the words you choose. I say to my girls. go pee pee. I have one who goes immediately and one who comes back in without going. I stop her and say go pee pee and she goes back. when the first one does it I say clever girl Maisie, then clever girl Florence .I use a very silly voice, then we go back to the house and all the time I am saying things like such clever girls. so clever. As soon as I get in the door there is a jar and those clever girls get a treat, all the time I am getting the lid off I am complementing them, . Their tails are wagging and they are wining with excitement. I never use that jar of treats for anything else.
Even visiting dogs pick up on it real quick.