The irony of stock market and dollar losses

I know that returns count. I was thinking of my dividends when I said yield.
They are a needed bonus to my income.
 

you do know there is nothing unique about dividends . for every dividend paid the exchanges automatically reduce the value of your investment left compounding by an equal amount .

a portfolio of non dividend payers with the same or greater return can provide the identical income stream and leave you with the same balance .

dividends are not like interest which is on top of your existing balance . dividends take the price of the shares you had the night before , break off a piece of the share price and give to you lowering your dollars still invested .

i accidently bought verizon the day before it went ex div . i gave them 20k , i got a dividend of 235.00 and had 19,765.00 left for the market action to compound on . in the end nothing gained nothing lost .

to make matters worse they missed earnings and not only got the price reduction from the dividend but got smashed ay by market action
 
I have no money in the stock market.

I put a little deferred compensation in mutual funds back when I was working and what I found was that if my balance went down $100 I felt like I had taken a hundred dollar bill and burned it in my outdoor grill. So I decided it was not for me.
 

if it wasn't for the 30 years i spent investing in diversified funds i would not be retired today. in fact over a typical accumulation period spanning decades no one in our history in this country ever lost a penny except through bad investor behavior
 
mathjak107 said:
if it wasn't for the 30 years i spent investing in diversified funds i would not be retired today. in fact over a typical accumulation period spanning decades no one in our history in this country ever lost a penny except through bad investor behavior
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I hung in for 31 years years with State Government in Florida so that I could get a defined benefit Pension. I would have never been able to put away enough myself to retire like I have. The State of Florida had a pretty good retirement system. Unfortunately two of the last three Republican Governors, Jeb Bush, and Rick Scott, have been trying their best to destroy it, because that's what Republicans do. Charlie Crist wasn't so bad, but the Republican Party drove him out.
 
mathjak107 said:
the best of all outcomes is a pension and your own investing .
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If you can build up enough so that you never have to concern yourself with running out of money.

That's something beyond the means of most working class people.
 
i was working class all my life and lived in nyc (queens) a high cost of living area . yet i made investing a priority .

as i got more and more i invested in different things and compounding is definitely your friend .

a penny saved is a penny earned -but it will always be a penny . good investing skills take the little bits we can save and magically make big numbers over decades out of it .

it took the first 50 years of my life to compound to a million dollars but only 13 years to triple it .
 
I always fed the pig, just like he was a member of the family, and now he feeds me!!!

For the average person it is all about saving and investing small amounts of money over long periods of time.

"Large streams from little fountains flow, Tall oaks from little acorns grow." - D. Everett
 
a well deserved humble brag i might add . i grew up in a new york city housing project and vowed never to return or ever raise a family there . a promise that kept me motivated and driven not to fail financially for a lifetime . but it is also an example of how powerful compounding can be on the bits we are able to save from our pay checks .
 
mathjak107 said:
a well deserved humble brag i might add . i grew up in a new york city housing project and vowed never to return or ever raise a family there . a promise that kept me motivated and driven not to fail financially for a lifetime . but it is also an example of how powerful compounding can be on the bits we are able to save from our pay checks .
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If I remember right, there was an article of you and your wife in Money Mag a few years ago. One of those success stories they do. Got a link for all to see? Didn't your wife also contribute a good chunk to the portfolio? If it was not you my apologies. He had a similar name on another forum.
 
very good memory , yes that was us . it was over 10 years ago actually back in 2006 . very good remembering that . actually the story was kept on the cnn website for a decade and now that i went to link it they only keep things up there for up to ten years .
my wife inherited i think 200k or so which we left as cash cash to cover our first 2 years in retirement .
 
mathjak107 said:
the best of all outcomes is a pension and your own investing .
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50 years of investing probably isn't possible for most posting here. I don't think many companies offer pensions now since 401k's with a percent match became popular. But there probably is time for offspring to learn & even easier with tons of info available on the internet.

Fortunately both my wife and I worked for companies that had pension plans & 401k's. Foolish to invest in the companies we worked for was the "expert" opinion. Didn't listen to the experts. Between company match in our 401k's & ESOP's at no cost to buy and a percent discount on the average stock cost, that long term advantage kicked. The way it kicked in was two for one splits, and even a 4 for 1 split.

Best thing we did was to convert the 401k's into self directed IRA's. The traditional IRA's we have as a hedge are nice but don't amount to much.

So out of the dumb luck to have a long time to prepare for our old age, we both have 4 sources of income. New goal is to leave each of our sons 15,000 shares of a stock that as of now pays $1.60 a year in dividends. With any luck those will split for them.
 
Probably the best two things the government has ever done for the working people was the implementation of Social Security, and the 401K program...I just wish the 401K's had been available when I first started working. As time passes, more and more people are going to be responsible for their own financial security in retirement, and getting into a good 401K ASAP is probably the best thing today's younger workers can do for themselves. The number of workers covered by a Defined Benefit pension plan has dropped to about 20% in the past few years, so that leaves 80% of the people with little other than SS and whatever they have saved and invested.
 
Knight said:
50 years of investing probably isn't possible for most posting here. I don't think many companies offer pensions now since 401k's with a percent match became popular. But there probably is time for offspring to learn & even easier with tons of info available on the internet.

Fortunately both my wife and I worked for companies that had pension plans & 401k's. Foolish to invest in the companies we worked for was the "expert" opinion. Didn't listen to the experts. Between company match in our 401k's & ESOP's at no cost to buy and a percent discount on the average stock cost, that long term advantage kicked. The way it kicked in was two for one splits, and even a 4 for 1 split.

Best thing we did was to convert the 401k's into self directed IRA's. The traditional IRA's we have as a hedge are nice but don't amount to much.

So out of the dumb luck to have a long time to prepare for our old age, we both have 4 sources of income. New goal is to leave each of our sons 15,000 shares of a stock that as of now pays $1.60 a year in dividends. With any luck those will split for them.
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OH it is possible to invest for decades . most choose not to .

at one point in my career i had 3 jobs going on to make sure i always had money to invest . i was a drummer doing side gigs weekends , i had my regular hvac tech job and i ran my own service company on the side at night if i could get work .

it all depends on priorities and how dedicated to having some extra money to invest you are ..
as they say , those who really want to succeed at something will find a way- the rest will find an excuse
 
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mathjak107 said:
OH it is possible to invest for decades . most choose not to .

at one point in my career i had 3 jobs going on to make sure i always had money to invest . i was a drummer doing side gigs weekends , i had my regular hvac tech job and i ran my own service company on the side at night if i could get work .

it all depends on priorities and how dedicated to having some extra money to invest you are ..
as they say , those who really want to succeed at something will find a way- the rest will find an excuse
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I agree that it is possible to invest for decades if you have decades left to be able to do that. I was reflecting on the fact this is a seniors site and the probability that most here are past having that time frame.

The best I expected to do by posting about our long term investing was to show it can be done. But as you point out there is a truth in those who really want to succeed at something will find a way- the rest will find an excuse
 
Knight said:
I agree that it is possible to invest for decades if you have decades left to be able to do that. I was reflecting on the fact this is a seniors site and the probability that most here are past having that time frame.

The best I expected to do by posting about our long term investing was to show it can be done. But as you point out there is a truth in those who really want to succeed at something will find a way- the rest will find an excuse
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I have a couple of mid 60's friends who appear not to be worried at all about retirement. They spend money like it's going out of style. They do not even have a target retirement date. I think they feel a little inheritance from parents and SS will do the trick. These two had good jobs but also had several kids too. So I know they couldn't save like me, but no doubt they could have saved and invested enough to retire by late 60's. Not happening tho.
 
Don M. said:
I've found that the best financial advice, for me, comes from watching CNBC, and their analysts...especially Jim Cramer, at breakfast every day. Following their tips, and monitoring my portfolio myself has allowed me to keep our assets intact. I've been pulling a monthly allotment from the IRA for almost 16 years, and as of this morning, I have slightly more than what I started with....essentially giving us over $400K of "free" money, since retiring. The stock markets are certainly a bit of a gamble, but if a person pays attention, and reallocates as market conditions change, the "ride" is not that bumpy.
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Jim Cramer was one of the experts touting Fitbit. I bought only 25 shares (thank goodness) at $45+ and 20 at $36+. Today the stock is $5.62!
 
Buy low sell high which means you have to keep an eye on it. Never assume that stock or company will be there when you want to sell or cash in. Also think about stock and funds for income. The key word being funds because a fund can have a company/stock go bad and still be worth something unlike a person who holds that individual stock
 
Trade said:
I hung in for 31 years years with State Government in Florida so that I could get a defined benefit Pension. I would have never been able to put away enough myself to retire like I have. The State of Florida had a pretty good retirement system. Unfortunately two of the last three Republican Governors, Jeb Bush, and Rick Scott, have been trying their best to destroy it, because that's what Republicans do. Charlie Crist wasn't so bad, but the Republican Party drove him out.
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Trade...our N.J. governor Christie, also a Republican, tried to do the same. He had it out for retirees and teachers from day one. He stopped our COLAs, promised he would fully fund the plan, then reversed that decision even after a judge told him it was a mandatory obligation. I was so afraid he would cut our pension benefits and wreak havoc on our retiree health benefits but so far he hasn't. New hires face stunning benefit changes however.

Those of us who are getting defined pension benefits are blessed. We are a fading number. But like Mathjak...I'm glad I got into and stayed in the stock market. My investments are mostly mutual funds and ETFs (hand picked using my own unscientific method). I recently reversed my decision to continue to add to my savings so they would have more of a percentage in my portfolio because the growth is next to nothing, which means I'd lose money to inflation in the long run. BTW, my investments didn't suffer during the 2008 crash and recession and have averaged 14% annually since. I am 70 years old and still investing. Unless there's a major catastrophic event or illness, I won't need to touch my investments.
 
WhatInThe said:
Buy low sell high which means you have to keep an eye on it. Never assume that stock or company will be there when you want to sell or cash in. Also think about stock and funds for income. The key word being funds because a fund can have a company/stock go bad and still be worth something unlike a person who holds that individual stock
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buying individual stocks adds a whole other layer of risk . it adds individual company risk and all the negatives that go with betting on a particular company .

i only fun trade stocks . my serious money has always been funds . dealing with just market volatility is enough without taking on individual company risk .
 
Anyone know any high quality profitable midcap stocks? I am very cautious about this but I need to diversify.
Nothing in retail, energy or utilities or restaurants.
 
i don't buy individual stocks for my serious investing . in funds right now i much prefer the small cap growth arena than mid-caps .
 

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