27 Story Building Fire London. 200 Fire Fighters Involved. Flames Every Where

That is so horrible! I saw footage on GMA this morning. People trying to escape down ropes (or maybe they were sheets), a blind man standing at a window waiting to be rescued. As of the report, 6 were confirmed dead and an official said it's expected there'll be more. Just awful. The reporter in London said they didn't feel it was a terrorist attack and that the building had citations in the past. My heart goes out to the families and friends of those who were lost, to the injured and to those poor people who have lost their homes.
 
"How exactly did this blaze apparently spread so quickly...? "

As an ex-Health & Safety Officer in the UK I would be looking at "chimneys", lift shafts, stairwells cable ducting and the like.

Fires should not spread between floors so quickly (9/11 spread was because of thousands of gallons of fuel flowing downwards).
 
I see that terrible fire on the TV.
It's being reported ( in Aust ) that the building may have been recently cladded / ungraded on the outside ,with a Chinese made cladding that's been known to help "fuel the fire" in buildings where it's been used in Australia
 
We had a "hot" fire in Atlanta recently where a section of a major interstate highway was burnt up. I think it was mostly reels of cable stored underneath the raised section. No telling what is in some of these older buildings that might burn "hot" but there are some materials that once they are ignited, they burn "hot", fast, and may burn for awhile too.
 
Laurie said:
The cladding was a factor but from the pictures being shown here, this fire spread internally and unbelievably quickly.
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I am testing my memory on this because it was a few decades back. But I recall an older engineer I worked with commenting on the ceiling tiles they were using in a building we were renovating and moving into. Something about fire resistance and how it was tested. Not too long after he had mentioned that I saw an investigative report on TV that demonstrated what he had said and it caught my attention. Basically these ceiling tiles that were suppose to be fire resistant/retardant where only that way when oriented vertically and the fire temperature below a certain amount; but if you tested it horizontally like it is used (which they didn't to classify it), it was a dangerous material in a fire. Burnt hot, fast, and was deadly in an real-world fire situation.
 
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Thanks, Ike. I had never heard of this stuff before. This town spread out rather than up, and we have VERY few high rise apartment buildings. Three or four stories is about the maximum we see here for residential buildings.

I wouldn't want to live in a building that was taller than the fire department ladders could reach, anyway.
 
I'm stunned at the death toll. And surprised but not shocked the building was cited for various violations a 2 years ago. Apparently the building was under going upgrades and retro fits at the time of the fire???

If under renovation this might explain how the fire might have spread quickly. If they had exposed ceilings minus panels and missing or open walls that could explain some issues. They also said the stairwells have spiral stair cases? And elevators and alarms and/or systems not working or hooked up during renovations.

And according to IKEs cladding link low fire resistant cladding probably had a lot of wood in it or even particle board? Not good.

I've seen in person or news of fires IN high rise office buildings or shorter apartment buildings but I don't think I've seen an entire multistory structure become fully engulfed like this one.

In the UK would heat & cooking be electric or gas/propane in a tall residential building?
 
Laurie said:
Normal building standards for something that was built nearly half a century ago.
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I understand them grandfathering the older buildings for many things but they can always add things like fire alarms, smoke detectors etc. Most landlords in the states fear being caught with dead batteries or non functioning detectors in the states(big fines). Sprinklers could be added as well. Don't they have ordinances for fire extinguishers in hallways let alone the apartments. Many communities it's a fine you if there is no kitchen fire extinguisher. Small things like that buy time for escape.

Also I saw reports that the elevators were non functional. Doesn't the UK have protections for the disabled? How would a handicapped person get to their apartment on a normal day.
 
WhatInThe said:
I understand them grandfathering the older buildings for many things but they can always add things like fire alarms, smoke detectors etc. Most landlords in the states fear being caught with dead batteries or non functioning detectors in the states(big fines). Sprinklers could be added as well. Don't they have ordinances for fire extinguishers in hallways let alone the apartments. Many communities it's a fine you if there is no kitchen fire extinguisher. Small things like that buy time for escape.

Also I saw reports that the elevators were non functional. Doesn't the UK have protections for the disabled? How would a handicapped person get to their apartment on a normal day.
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A few points to look at.

" fire alarms, smoke detectors etc." Of limited value, the building was ablaze, top to bottom, in ten minutes. The initial fire is believed to have been a refrigerator which went straight into flame, no smoke.

"Sprinklers could be added" Very rarely, the cost is prohibitive in existing buildings (it is now a statutory requirement in new build). This 1970s building would have been riddled with asbestos which would have meant a total decant, including all fabric based furnishings.

"Don't they have ordinances for fire extinguishers" This was an inner city block. Fire extinguishers would have disappeared down lift shafts, stairwells or out of windows within half an hour!

"the elevators were non functional." Standard advice n a fire - don't use the elevators. Disabled people should not be housed in such a place.

Standard practice in the UK, and we don't have as much high rise experience as the US, is that individual apartments should contain a fire for thirty minutes, allowing firefighters to attend, assess and set up a safe evacuation route. That clearly did not happen in this case.
 
Laurie said:
A few points to look at.

" fire alarms, smoke detectors etc." Of limited value, the building was ablaze, top to bottom, in ten minutes. The initial fire is believed to have been a refrigerator which went straight into flame, no smoke.

"Sprinklers could be added" Very rarely, the cost is prohibitive in existing buildings (it is now a statutory requirement in new build). This 1970s building would have been riddled with asbestos which would have meant a total decant, including all fabric based furnishings.

"Don't they have ordinances for fire extinguishers" This was an inner city block. Fire extinguishers would have disappeared down lift shafts, stairwells or out of windows within half an hour!

"the elevators were non functional." Standard advice n a fire - don't use the elevators. Disabled people should not be housed in such a place.

...
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Yes, when ever possible avoid elevators during an emergency although 2 dozen floors up with visible flame or smoke and a line of people waiting to use the stair I would be tempted. But setting that aside does the UK have any specific protections and/or conveniences for the disabled or handicapped. In the US they have the ADA or Americans With Disabilities Act in which things like elevators, ramps, rails, aisle widths in stores etc are mandatory, have been for decades at this point.

I get public fire extinguishers might be stolen but what about the individual units. Again in many areas there are ordinances on mandatory fire extinguishers in the kitchen, they'll even check to make sure it's good for grease fire. Are retail/residential fire extinguishers at least available in the local hardware stores?

And who would be responsible for general apartment maintenance including the light cleaning of appliances. It's recommended that people dust/clean the coils in back of the refrigerator to prevent the heat from igniting clumps of dust or lint. Would the tenant or landlord have to do something like that? Same for clothes dryers, it's recommended that the heat outlets or vents are cleaned of lint on a regular basis to prevent heat fires.

Also read where the same management company was also in charge of a big apartment building fire in 2015?
 
" what about the individual units."

Thar's down to individual choice.

Bear in mind this was social housing. By the very nature of things such tenants don't have money available for such niceties as fire extinguishers or smoke alarms, rget are too concerned with trying to get some food on the table.


 

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