China, the new kid on the block. Foe or ally?

Post WWII, every other industrial nation was devastated and in total ruin. Only the US had the "Bomb". That was 80 years ago. Most nations have rebuilt their infrastructure. And lot's of nations have the 'bomb'. Now, China has emerged as the new kid on the block. How does the West treat China-foe or ally?

Probably neither... certainly not ally because the United States doesn't have any communist allies. I'd say more like "trading partner" and not foe *or* friend.

Competitor. Hopefully, a semi-friendly competitor.

If we are to ever have peace we need to treat China and all nations as friends while remaining totally independent and ready to protect our way of life.

It would be an oversimplification to categorize the relationship between China and the United States as friends or foes. Certainly they have an uneasy peace, but they're more or less compelled to find ways to selectively cooperate, due to trade reliance and economic interdependence.

The CCP is no one's friend. But there is hope that the US and China can be mutually fair and friendly after the fall of the CCP.

That friendship probably won't happen quickly, though. China's youth needs time to convince China's older, thoroughly brainwashed population that the US is not their #1 mortal enemy. But maybe I'm underestimating China's youth.

I don't see them as friend or foe. We have become so dependent on each other, that decoupling would be simply unrealistic, if not impossible, so it becomes one of managing a working relationship. We will always be in competition and probably at odds over many things like human rights, trade practices, and territorial claims. In a situation like that, all we can do is try to convince them that cooperation is likely to yield better results than confrontations.

China is a friend, and an enemy.

As a friend they have provided cheap labor, which a very large part of western world have benefited from. You can bet that there are Made in China products in your home. If you're an investor, that you've benefited from Chinese based dividends, etc.

As an enemy, they continue to trade with enemies (such as Russia). They steal tech, and copyright laws mean nothing to them.

Oh, and it goes without saying, their people are controlled by the government at levels we can't comprehend.

We allowed this to happen because a) we wanted more profit; b) It's a huge potential market for products and services. As such, we have excused a multitude of sins.

fuzzybuddy said:

Post WWII, every other industrial nation was devastated and in total ruin. Only the US had the "Bomb". That was 80 years ago. Most nations have rebuilt their infrastructure. And lot's of nations have the 'bomb'. Now, China has emerged as the new kid on the block. How does the West treat China-foe or ally?

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Neither, I'd say. They're a world power that has aims that do not align with ours. This doesn't necessarily make them our enemy, but we sure as hell aren't pals.

Now, if they're ever going to take back Taiwan, it has to be within this decade (for very real economic and demographic reasons), and at that point we WILL be enemies. However, their nuclear policy is the same as our own (only launch if fired on first or physical invasion of home territory), so it is not an existential threat.

Right now they mostly manufacture things we can't be bothered to manufacture on account of the margins aren't good enough.

My elder daughter teaches / mentors a large number of Chinese students through their university studies in the UK. I asked her how they felt about politics and China's relationship with the rest of the world. She said they don't care about such things. Their aim is to learn good English, get a recognised degree from a good university and this would enable them to get a good job anywhere in the world.

She added that many were from wealthier families and there was a lot of pressure on them to be successful.

Capt Lightning said:

My elder daughter teaches / mentors a large number of Chinese students through their university studies in the UK. I asked her how they felt about politics and China's relationship with the rest of the world. She said they don't care about such things. Their aim is to learn good English, get a recognised degree from a good university and this would enable them to get a good job anywhere in the world.

She added that many were from wealthier families and there was a lot of pressure on them to be successful.

Click to expand...

Gee, it's almost as though, at the end of the day, they're just normal people who happen to be governed by poor leaders...........

Australians have always had a complicated history with China. Chinese people have lived in Australia from the time of the gold fields and were never assimilated or accepted. Some married white women who were then ostracised by white, as in Anglo, Australians.

Some were expelled from the colonies, and those that were not were banned from practising certain trades such as furniture construction. They lived in silo communities referred to as China Town or worked growing vegetables for market.

Prior to WW II China was feared as "The Yellow Peril" that would sweep down and take over Australia, but it was actually Japan that had designs on our wide open spaces and mineral resources.

During the Korean and Vietnamese wars Australian soldiers came face to face with units of the Red Army.

When the Cold War began to thaw one of our senior politicians made a visit to Bejing to make peace with the leadership. His name is Edward Gough Whitlam and he went on to become Prime Minister of Australia. The year was 1971, before President Nixon's famous visit in 1972.

In the following years, trade between China and Australia has grown, replacing Great Britain as our largest trading partner. Today, China is still our largest trading partner, albeit a rather prickly one. The US has replaced the UK as our most important military alliance. It seems to me that ATM our military alliance with America is rather wobbly. I am concerned that the US might not honour the ANZUS treaty if Australia were to be attacked by China. Slogans like "America first" do not help in that regard.

Many Aussies have grown concerned about relying so much on China and US and as a nation we are currently seeking to expand relationships with ASEAN nations, including Japan and India. Video of Indian President Modi at China's recent, and mighty, military parade does not bode well for Australia.

A perfect explanation of Australia's defence policy and our relationship with China

Wombat said:

A perfect explanation of Australia's defence policy and our relationship with China

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Love the satire that is Utopia.

I consider them as foe.
Never trust anything that comes from the CCP.
Suppression and conquer is their game.
Human rights issues.
Look at Tiananmen Square, Taiwan and Hong Kong.
It wants to control Tibet and appoint the next Dalai Lama.
It is giving out money to Pacific Island nations in the hopes of gaining a major foothold.
It floods countries with cheap trinkets and beads, destroying local businesses who can not compete.
Everywhere I go, when I look at a product's country of origin, 90% of it is "Product of China"

Bretrick said:

I consider them as foe.
Never trust anything that comes from the CCP.
Suppression and conquer is their game.
Human rights issues.
Look at Tiananmen Square, Taiwan and Hong Kong.
It wants to control Tibet and appoint the next Dalai Lama.
It is giving out money to Pacific Island nations in the hopes of gaining a major foothold.
It floods countries with cheap trinkets and beads, destroying local businesses who can not compete.
Everywhere I go, when I look at a product's country of origin, 90% of it is "Product of China"

Click to expand...

I agree, China plays the long game and they play to win.

China’s Belt and Road initiative to invest in the infrastructure of 150 countries around the world is an amazing example of their methodical efforts to set the stage for global domination.