17-year-old diagnosed with heart condition after receiving COVID vaccine

Buckeye said:
Not true. When my 25 year old grandson got it in January of 2019, he said afterwards that it was the absolute sickest he had ever been and the worst he had ever felt. Was in the hospital for several days, He was an early victim, and therefore was not diagnosed with Covid at the time, but it was confirmed later. He is fully recovered and has always been very physically fit and healthy.
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One picture/case does not a movie/trend make. It's one of those "greatest percentage" things.
 

Buckeye said:
Not true. When my 25 year old grandson got it in January of 2019, he said afterwards that it was the absolute sickest he had ever been and the worst he had ever felt. Was in the hospital for several days, He was an early victim, and therefore was not diagnosed with Covid at the time, but it was confirmed later. He is fully recovered and has always been very physically fit and healthy.
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"The sickest I've ever been" is what we all say when we're sick because we would rather focus on wellness, and because we can only evaluate whatever illness we've had up to that day; we can't evaluate any future illnesses, especially when we're young & haven't been ill very often.
When I was 33, I was the sickest I've ever been - it was the only time I had the flu (whatever one was going around then). As for immunity, I've never had any strain of flu since (36 years) despite caring for friends with the flu & co-workers who came to work with the flu because they didn't have paid sick leave at that job. I've never had a flu shot, so I must have become immune from getting the flu.

It may be the same with Covid; real immunity may come from getting it.
 
Devi said:
My point is that it isn't necessarily a killer. My husband had it too; he's in the kitchen right now doing whatever it is he's doing.

I'm not going to argue this with you. Believe whatever you want to believe.
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Not necessarily a killer? There are very few diseases that are "necessarily" killers. Many people survive cancer and heart attacks. People survived polio, Spanish flu, pneumonia, diphtheria, and even bubonic plague and smallpox. So what does that prove?

If a disease kills or disables millions of people (in one year!), it's a killer, and needs to be either cured or prevented in the first place. Isn't that just common sense?

Thank you for giving me permission to believe what I want to believe. I intend to do that. What I want to believe is science, legitimate evidence, and the thinking of educated people.... not the doubts being sown by dubious characters who encouraged their followers first to believe there was no such thing as Covid, then that well shucks, it wasn't so bad, and finally that the vaccine either doesn't work or that it kills people. (It's the vaccine that is the killer, not the virus, even though the death figures from Covid went immediately and dramatically way down as soon as people started getting vaccinated in large numbers.)

What astonishes me is that a (small) number of people actually believe this nonsense.
 

Sunny, I did not say there was no such thing as Covid (what?!), nor that it wasn't so bad -- just that it wasn't so bad for us. I think you have me confused with someone else.

But I'm not going to argue with you or spend time untwisting what you've said. I'm done.
 
jet said:
every medication you take has side effects,,its a risk we all take
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When I had my hip replacement, my surgeon went to great lengths in advising me of the dangers: "We lose one in two hundred on the operating table," he informed me, adding, in a jocular way, "so if you are standing in front of St. Peter while he runs down his clipboard to see if your name is on it, you're going to think. Well that's a result!"
Of course there's risk, life is a risk.
 
JonDouglas said:
One picture/case does not a movie/trend make. It's one of those "greatest percentage" things.
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Funny, because this whole thread is about one young man who got sick after getting the jab, which is extrapolated to mean the vax is very dangerous. So why is this thread, and many of the poster on it, not held to that same standard? Close to 200 million Americans have been vaccinated, and one incident justifies not getting the jab? Where is the "greatest percentage" in that?
 
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Buckeye said:
Funny, because this whole thread is about one young man who got sick after getting the jab, which is extrapolated to mean the vax is very dangerous. So why is this thread, and many of the poster on it, not held to that same standard? Close to 200 million Americans have been vaccinated, and one incident justifies not getting the jab? Where is the "greatest percentage" in that?
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No, the OP is about one young man who is now among a larger number of others having similar heart problems after the jab. Regardless, the greatest percentage of young people are not significantly affected by covid. The subject and sample is healthy young people not 200 million who've gotten the vaccine.
 
Sunny said:
Not necessarily a killer? There are very few diseases that are "necessarily" killers. Many people survive cancer and heart attacks. People survived polio, Spanish flu, pneumonia, diphtheria, and even bubonic plague and smallpox. So what does that prove?

If a disease kills or disables millions of people (in one year!), it's a killer, and needs to be either cured or prevented in the first place. Isn't that just common sense?

Thank you for giving me permission to believe what I want to believe. I intend to do that. What I want to believe is science, legitimate evidence, and the thinking of educated people.... not the doubts being sown by dubious characters who encouraged their followers first to believe there was no such thing as Covid, then that well shucks, it wasn't so bad, and finally that the vaccine either doesn't work or that it kills people. (It's the vaccine that is the killer, not the virus, even though the death figures from Covid went immediately and dramatically way down as soon as people started getting vaccinated in large numbers.)

What astonishes me is that a (small) number of people actually believe this nonsense.
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Perhaps you've forgotten that they changed the testing and counting procedures for those who'd gotten the vaccine so your statement has no basis in fact. It's those details again.

Edit Note: Now we have all those unvaccinated people running around here with no masks amid the "killer" delta variant and there doesn't seem to be a problem. The hospitals aren't full, people don't seem to be dying off. It was always true that (1) the greatest majority of people would not be significantly affected by covid, (2) covid testing regimens gave us a lot of bad data and (3) death causes and counts were inaccurate.
 
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JonDouglas said:
No, the OP is about one young man who is now among a larger number of others having similar heart problems after the jab. Regardless, the greatest percentage of young people are not significantly affected by covid. The subject and sample is healthy young people not 200 million who've gotten the vaccine.
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Again, in the vast majority of cases, the "greater percentage", there are no complications from the vax. The subject of my post was one young man who became very ill. There are many more like him. If you are saying that my grandson is the only healthy young person that has suffered from Covid, you would be wrong. That's my subject and my sample, same as the young man in the OP who is your sample. One person.

Try as long as you want, but you can't have it both ways. Either my sample of one is as valid as your sample of one, or neither is valid. Your choice.
 
Buckeye said:
Again, in the vast majority of cases, the "greater percentage", there are no complications from the vax. The subject of my post was one young man who became very ill. There are many more like him. If you are saying that my grandson is the only healthy young person that has suffered from Covid, you would be wrong. That's my subject and my sample, same as the young man in the OP who is your sample. One person.

Try as long as you want, but you can't have it both ways. Either my sample of one is as valid as your sample of one, or neither is valid. Your choice.
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My response and point was and still is a simple one - one data point is not a statistic - one instance is not a trend. If the particulars of that data point map to other data points in a significant way, then it becomes part of a statistic or possible trend. Most young people don't get sick from covid. The fact that yours did doesn't negate the trend.
 
JonDouglas said:
My response and point was and still is a simple one - one data point is not a statistic - one instance is not a trend. If the particulars of that data point map to other data points in a significant way, then it becomes part of a statistic or possible trend. Most young people don't get sick from covid. The fact that yours did doesn't negate the trend.
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You're still trying to have it both ways. One data point is all that is in the OP. I can say that most young people do not get sick from the vax, and the fact that one young man did doesn't negate the trend.

The % of young people who get ill from Covid is greater than the % who get ill from the vax. "Greatest percentage" indeed.
 
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Buckeye said:
You're still trying to have it both ways. One data point is all that is in the OP. I can say that most young people do not get sick from the vax, and the fact that one young man did doesn't negate the trend.

The % of young people who get ill from Covid is greater than the % who get ill from the vax. "Greatest percentage" indeed.
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Two thoughts about your last statement. I must have missed that point in your earliest statement and where's the data showing such?
 
chic said:
What's worrisome there is that many of the best universities are requiring covid vaccination or you cannot attend their institution. I fear a generation of under educated people because of this.
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Or perhaps a generation of chicken-livers who will be conditioned to bow, kiss, get down on their knees, and worship those who think, and are typically viewed as being superior and above everyone, everyone, as in the general populous.

No Sir/Maam, yes Sir/Maam, right away Sir/Maam, at your service Sir/Maam, whatever you desire Sir/Maam.
 
Devi said:
Sunny, I did not say there was no such thing as Covid (what?!), nor that it wasn't so bad -- just that it wasn't so bad for us. I think you have me confused with someone else.

But I'm not going to argue with you or spend time untwisting what you've said. I'm done.
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Devi, where did I say that YOU said there was no such thing as Covid, etc.? I was talking about a whole group of seriously misled people, some of whom died as a result of following dangerous, harmful advice. You are lucky, as an elderly, overweight person with diabetes to have survived Covid. You may have narrowly escaped a horrendous death.

Of course some people survive Covid. Nobody ever said it is 100% fatal. Neither is the vaccine 100% effective. All we can do is go by the statistics. Some people survive cancer also. So, does that mean the disease isn't that dangerous, and people should stop worrying about it, go back to smoking, or whatever?

This heartbreaking article about the nurses caring for desperately ill Covid patients might help to make my point. l'm not sure if you can see it without subscribing, but if you can, it's worth reading.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/07/06/appalachian-covid-deniers-nurses-virginia/
 
horseless carriage said:
When I had my hip replacement, my surgeon went to great lengths in advising me of the dangers: "We lose one in two hundred on the operating table," he informed me, adding, in a jocular way, "so if you are standing in front of St. Peter while he runs down his clipboard to see if your name is on it, you're going to think. Well that's a result!"
Of course there's risk, life is a risk.
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The difference is, a hip replacement is necessary for quality of life; therefore worth the risk. The Covid vaccine's usefulness (and safety) are questionable. Both are individual choices.
 
Becky1951 said:
A 17-year-old student who received the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine in order to attend school and play soccer was diagnosed with heart issues soon after the shot, his father explained Tuesday on "Fox & Friends."

"A week later, he came home and started telling me that his heart was hurting every time he had a heartbeat," Fabio Berlingieri told "Fox & Friends."

After assuming the issue came from a pulled muscle from playing sports, Berlingieri took his son to the walk-in clinic to get his heart checked out. He said the clinicians did an EKG to check for different heart conditions. He also took his son to a cardiologist to get a sonogram.

Berlingieri said he received "bad news" the next day when the results came back and he was advised to take his son to the emergency room immediately on the day of his prom.

"His troponin levels were off the charts," he explained, adding that his son was in the hospital receiving care for a couple of days.


Now that Berlinigieri’s son has a heart condition, he missed his prom and can't do "all the things he loves to do," including playing soccer in the fall and surfing. The last cardiologist check-in showed that his "EKG was a little off."

"What happened, I guess, is the oxygen doesn't get in those areas. So it has to heal. So he has to be very careful that he doesn't do anything strenuous so his heart rate doesn't increase and [put him in] danger of a heart attack," Berlingieri said.

Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine is currently authorized for use in individuals aged 12 and older.

Younger children could become eligible for a COVID-19 vaccine this fall, according to a top executive at Pfizer who noted plans to request emergency approval for use of its vaccine in kids aged 5 to 11 by September or October.

Fox News medical contributor Dr. Nicole Saphier said the way the New York Times and the Centers for Disease Control are presenting the data regarding the adverse effects of vaccines in adolescents is "irresponsible."

"They cherry-pick the way that they present the data. It's an all or none approach. They say either adolescents are fully vaccinated or every single one of them is going to get COVID-19. That's the way they are balancing it right now," Saphier said.

Saphier said more weight should be given to potential adverse effects, like myocarditis and other heart inflammation issues when deciding who should be vaccinated.

"Not every single adolescent is going to get infected with the virus especially when you are in areas of this country where case transmission is exceedingly low," she said, as host Brian Kilmeade pointed out that the 17-year-old already had coronavirus and recovered, but was still required to be vaccinated to play soccer.

"We have just as much data showing natural immunity having a strong protective effect as we do the vaccines, but they continue to stop and not acknowledge it," said Saphier.

"Fabio, for himself and his family likely still had positive antibodies. He likely didn't need the vaccine right now. And here he is not even able to play soccer because he got the vaccine for soccer. It's irresponsible. It doesn't make sense. And the FDA needs to look a little bit closer at these vaccines before they continue having universal recommendations."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/covid-vaccine-heart-condition-17-year-old-father-friends
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Just because something happens after another thing does not mean that the first thing caused the second.

The article does not say that the vaccine caused the heart problem, it only says the heart problem was discovered after the vaccine was received.
 
Butterfly said:
Just because something happens after another thing does not mean that the first thing caused the second.

The article does not say that the vaccine caused the heart problem, it only says the heart problem was discovered after the vaccine was received.
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I believe you are referring to the post hoc logical fallacy, which could be more strongly argued were it not for the fact that such occurrences are not isolated or all that rare. There is a reason the FDA issued a warning about potential heart problems following the vaccine.
 
JonDouglas said:
I believe you are referring to the post hoc logical fallacy, which could be more strongly argued were it not for the fact that such occurrences are not isolated or all that rare. There is a reason the FDA issued a warning about potential heart problems following the vaccine.
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I am not sayiong that the two might not be related. I am saying that simply because one followed the other does not mean that one caused the other, absent proof.
JonDouglas said:
I believe you are referring to the post hoc logical fallacy, which could be more strongly argued were it not for the fact that such occurrences are not isolated or all that rare. There is a reason the FDA issued a warning about potential heart problems following the vaccine.
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Based on what I've read, such reactions are pretty rare when you consider the number of vaccinations administered.
 

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