A Better Way of Educating Teens?

senior chef

senior chef

Senior Member
It is no secret that many, perhaps most, teens graduate high school with very little preparation of how to become gainfully employed.
It is true that SOME students will go on to college, but the vast majority do not. Students who never attend college will not have any need of many of the classes which they took in high school. Think about it. For example, how many of us ever had any need of algebra in our daily lives ? Or even foreign language for that matter ? In any event, most teens who graduate high school, don't have even the most basic knowledge of the world. I mean geez, if shown an unmarked map of the world, they can't even point out the United States.

In the 'old days', teens often started their lives by being apprenticed to a working skill. 4 or 5 years of apprenticeship prepared them to take on ever greater responsibilities, such as baker, plumber, various building trades, cook, tailor, cobbler, etc etc. Now, it is certainly true that today we have little need of cobblers or even tailors, but there are other occupations that pay extremely well , such as plumber, electrician, auto mechanics, computer programming. In the process, through apprenticeship, by their late teens or early 20's, youngsters were then in a position to get married and start a family.

It is my opinion that the majority of today's graduating students can not even do the most basic math. Nor can they tell you what July 4th signifies. Thus, they are ill prepared for ANY basic starting job. No wonder so many are angry.

Thus, I advocate, throughout their teens, 3-hours of BASIC education, such as spelling, writing a complete sentence, AND then off to an apprentice trade job for 4 hours/day. The only trick is determining which students would most benefit from apprenticeship and which students will go on to college.
 

oldaunt said:
Algebra and foreign language? Really? Its hard to even get a job these days if you don't speak Spanish. As for algebra, if you think about it, you use it more often than you think in problem solving.
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Can you give an example of how the average person uses algebra in his/her daily life ?
 
Warrigal said:
Foreign languages, algebra and other forms of problem solving, physical activity and music lessons are all instrumental in developing the young brain. None of it is a waste of time.
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In theory, those skills may be useful , BUT in reality, our children are lagging way behind much of the rest of the world.
A few years ago, I was sitting on a bench outside of Walmart. A young fellow, age 17-19, sat down and we began to talk. I don't recall how it came up but he never even heard of D-Day. How in the heck is that possible ? What in the world are they teaching kids these days ?
 
senior chef said:
In theory, those skills may be useful , BUT in reality, our children are lagging way behind much of the rest of the world.
A few years ago, I was sitting on a bench outside of Walmart. A young fellow, age 17-19, sat down and we began to talk. I don't recall how it came up but he never even heard of D-Day. How in the heck is that possible ? What in the world are they teaching kids these days ?
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Go sit in a 6th grade classroom for a day. It certainly isn't the 3 r's any more. And they have never heard of social studies. They aren't going to learn what is no longer taught. HS grads today can't even read cursive writing. If it isn't on a screen, it doesn't exist.
 
oldaunt said:
Go sit in a 6th grade classroom for a day. It certainly isn't the 3 r's any more. And they have never heard of social studies. They aren't going to learn what is no longer taught. HS grads today can't even read cursive writing. If it isn't on a screen, it doesn't exist.
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My point, exactly. If they can't read cursive writing, how in the world can they write a simple letter, or a postcard, to a friend
 
Everytime you have to solve a problem with an unknown quantity or solution, you use algebra. Just because you are not seeing x's and y's does not mean that it is a different situation. The idea of classroom algebra with those letters and the elusive solution is a way of teaching you to solve a problem. Learning logarithms gives one an introduction to logical thinking. I cherish those days for they've helped me enormously in day to day living.
 
senior chef said:
In theory, those skills may be useful , BUT in reality, our children are lagging way behind much of the rest of the world.
A few years ago, I was sitting on a bench outside of Walmart. A young fellow, age 17-19, sat down and we began to talk. I don't recall how it came up but he never even heard of D-Day. How in the heck is that possible ? What in the world are they teaching kids these days ?
Click to expand...
Go sit in a 6th grade classroom for a day. It certainly isn't the 3 r's any more. And they have never heard of social studies. They aren't going to learn what is no longer taught. HS grads today can't even read cursive writing. If it isn't on a screen, it doesn't exist.
senior chef said:
My point, exactly. If they can't read cursive writing, how in the world can they write a simple letter, or a postcard, to a friend
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They don't. They text.
 
Lewkat said:
Everytime you have to solve a problem with an unknown quantity or solution, you use algebra. Just because you are not seeing x's and y's does not mean that it is a different situation. The idea of classroom algebra with those letters and the elusive solution is a way of teaching you to solve a problem. Learning logarithms gives one an introduction to logical thinking. I cherish those days for they've helped me enormously in day to day living.
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An example,please. What problem,specifically, have you solved with algebra ?
 
senior chef said:
In theory, those skills may be useful , BUT in reality, our children are lagging way behind much of the rest of the world.
A few years ago, I was sitting on a bench outside of Walmart. A young fellow, age 17-19, sat down and we began to talk. I don't recall how it came up but he never even heard of D-Day. How in the heck is that possible ? What in the world are they teaching kids these days ?
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I'll bet he has never heard of the battle of Agincourt nor the Battle of the Coral Sea, but why should he? How is he disadvantaged if he is not familiar with the events of a war that ended in 1945? How is society disadvantaged if the young do not know about everything the old people remember? When he needs to know something he has the internet at his fingertips.
 
senior chef said:
My point, exactly. If they can't read cursive writing, how in the world can they write a simple letter, or a postcard, to a friend
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They print, by hand using a disposable pen. Simple and efficient but would not have been practical in the days of ink wells and nib pens which are no longer practical in 21st century.
 
Warrigal said:
I'll bet he has never heard of the battle of Agincourt nor the Battle of the Coral Sea, but why should he? How is he disadvantaged if he is not familiar with the events of a war that ended in 1945? How is society disadvantaged if the young do not know about everything the old people remember? When he needs to know something he has the internet at his fingertips.
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I'm having a difficult time understanding what the heck they DO teach in school. No history classes ?
I can't imagine any teenager wanting to learn about history on his own without it being required in high school. Too busy playing computer games ?
I wonder how many could tell you a single thing about the Greek civilization OR the Roman Empire ?
For that matter, do schools teach anything about 9/11 ? I'll bet not.
 
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The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. One of the problems with our schools is the short school year. When you add in holidays, and months off in the summer, we lag way behind what other nation's kids spend in school. US kids spend about 790 hours in school, in Chile, they spend 1,070. When you think of the new knowledge that kids have to learn since we were in school. And I doubt that will change, the tourism industry needs cheap summer labor.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. One of the problems with our schools is the short school year. When you add in holidays, and months off in the summer, we lag way behind what other nation's kids spend in school. US kids spend about 790 hours in school, in Chile, they spend 1,070. When you think of the new knowledge that kids have to learn since we were in school. And I doubt that will change, the tourism industry needs cheap summer labor.
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All true enough, but IMO we lag so far behind so many other countries because our teachers do such a poor job teaching the basics AND because they spend time teaching political correctness, AND because we rarely hold a student back (repeating a grade). Thus students have little incentive to study harder.
 
senior chef said:
I'm having a difficult time understanding what the heck they DO teach in school. No history classes ?
I can't imagine any teenager wanting to learn about history on his own without it being required in high school. Too busy playing computer games ?
I wonder how many could tell you a single thing about the Greek civilization OR the Roman Empire ?
For that matter, do schools teach anything about 9/11 ? I'll bet not.
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How is learning a bout Greek civilization or the Roman Empire going to get them jobs?

Algebra, geometry, and trigonometry are used regularly in architectural design, so if someone wanted to start off in carpentry and eventually get a degree in architectural engineering or drafting, those classes would be prerequisites for many engineering classes. Plus, how would a kid know if he or she had an aptitude for math if there weren't mandatory math classes? Same with science and art.

That said, I believe a lot of high schools offer vocational training in place of traditional classes. So there is that option already.

One thing that should be taught to a greater extent is communication skills -- especially public speaking skills. You can't get anywhere without the ability to communicate clearly and effectively, and if you want to rise to any kind of leadership role, you need to be able to speak confidently in front of groups of people.
 
SeniorBen said:
How is learning a bout Greek civilization or the Roman Empire going to get them jobs?

Algebra, geometry, and trigonometry are used regularly in architectural design, so if someone wanted to start off in carpentry and eventually get a degree in architectural engineering or drafting, those classes would be prerequisites for many engineering classes. Plus, how would a kid know if he or she had an aptitude for math if there weren't mandatory math classes? Same with science and art.

That said, I believe a lot of high schools offer vocational training in place of traditional classes. So there is that option already.

One thing that should be taught to a greater extent is communication skills -- especially public speaking skills. You can't get anywhere without the ability to communicate clearly and effectively, and if you want to rise to any kind of leadership role, you need to be able to speak confidently in front of groups of people.
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Learning about Greek civilization or the Roman Empire will not help them to get jobs, but it seems to me that a person, every person, should have at least some basic knowledge of the world.

Once, I was talking to a woman and we were discussing Christian religion. When I happened to mention, Pontius Pilate, she asked , "Who was Pontius Pilate". Wow ! How is it possible for anyone to grow up in America, a Christian nation, and not know who Pontius Pilate was ?" My goodness, talk about a lack of basic education.

How would a kid know if he or she had an aptitude for math if there weren't mandatory classes ? Simple. There are tests to determine such things. I contend that many students would be better served bu taking more, many more, vocational classes.

When I was in 8th grade, I wanted to learn how to cook. I was told only girls are allowed to take Home Ec. They sent me to metal shop instead. That really, really pissed me off. I was required to take algebra. I rebelled and I refused to study algebra. I told them, let me take cooking classes and I'll study algebra. To this day, I've never taken algebra and I have gotten along just fine without it.

Less than a year later, I ran away from home and ended up in New Orleans were I DID find work as a cooks helper. The rest, as they say, is history. Within 8 years I was running my own restaurant. I got what I wanted, in spite of those who would try to control me.
 
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There is an old philosophy saying, "We are what we do". I look at things differently. I say, "We do what we are".
 

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