A Tsunami of Cocaine

I don't blame the poor in Mexico and other countries for selling it as much as I blame the Americans and Canadians for importing it. If there was no market for it; the sellers would have to find another line of business. Perhaps the "American Dream" has become the "American Nightmare?"
 

I don't blame the poor in Mexico and other countries for selling it as much as I blame the Americans and Canadians for importing it. If there was no market for it; the sellers would have to find another line of business. Perhaps the "American Dream" has become the "American Nightmare?"
We don't import it. The drugs find their own way into our country. Drugs may be one of the biggest businesses in the U.S. A lot (tons) of Fentanyl have come across the border from China to Mexico to the U.S. thanks to the illegals being able to walk into our country unvetted. It needs to stop. Last year, we lost 107,000 people (mostly young adults) to drug deaths.
 
"Isn't it true that most of the drugs addicts get addicted to changes their nature?"

I am sorry, but I don't understand what this means. Please say it so an oldman can better understand. Thanks.
It's easy to spot an addict. For example, because it represses hunger, meth causes extreme weight loss and malnourishment, resulting in acute vitamin deficiencies that cause permanent physiological changes everywhere in the body, from the brain to butthole. Fentanyl changes brain chemistry, causing neurological and psychological changes, often permanent. SOME hallucinogens can cause changes in the central nervous system that result in personality changes, some permanent.

Meth addicts lose parental instincts and empathy for others; they can develop bipolar disorder, Empathy Deficit Disorder, disorganized thought processes, various neurosis, etc. Fentanyl addicts can develop mental illness as well, including acute psychosis. Other drugs can cause other mental disorders and illnesses by causing permanent changes in the brain.

So, some researchers and scientists want to study drugs that have the potential to change a person's physiology and/or brain chemistry so that they can't become addicted to drugs. They want to create drugs that prevent addiction.

But they can't get funding for this type of study. (guess who doesn't like the idea, and has been fighting the funding of this type of research for decades? Aw, go on...guess.)
 

It's easy to spot an addict. For example, because it represses hunger, meth causes extreme weight loss and malnourishment, resulting in acute vitamin deficiencies that cause permanent physiological changes everywhere in the body, from the brain to butthole. Fentanyl changes brain chemistry, causing neurological and psychological changes, often permanent. SOME hallucinogens can cause changes in the central nervous system that result in personality changes, some permanent.

Meth addicts lose parental instincts and empathy for others; they can develop bipolar disorder, Empathy Deficit Disorder, disorganized thought processes, various neurosis, etc. Fentanyl addicts can develop mental illness as well, including acute psychosis. Other drugs can cause other mental disorders and illnesses by causing permanent changes in the brain.

So, some researchers and scientists want to study drugs that have the potential to change a person's physiology and/or brain chemistry so that they can't become addicted to drugs. They want to create drugs that prevent addiction.

But they can't get funding for this type of study. (guess who doesn't like the idea, and has been fighting the funding of this type of research for decades? Aw, go on...guess.)
I see your point but addict's sole purpose in life is staying high or that next high so everything else goes to the bottom of the list.

This is what makes them so selfish. Some drugs can change or corrupt thinking but they don't necessarily manufacture thoughts, behavior or emotion. What the sober see is someone who's sole purpose in life is being high. Ignoring consequence is a box check for addicts.That's why jail or threat of jail doesn't work. That's why potential loss of a job and pay doesn't work. Or even potential loss of a spouse, kids, parents etc. Their high has taken total priority consequence be darned.
 
I see your point but addict's sole purpose in life is staying high or that next high so everything else goes to the bottom of the list.

This is what makes them so selfish. Some drugs can change or corrupt thinking but they don't necessarily manufacture thoughts, behavior or emotion. What the sober see is someone who's sole purpose in life is being high. Ignoring consequence is a box check for addicts.That's why jail or threat of jail doesn't work. That's why potential loss of a job and pay doesn't work. Or even potential loss of a spouse, kids, parents etc. Their high has taken total priority consequence be darned.
Yes, of course. Imagine if all that could be prevented. Prevented. Jails empty of addicts. Child protective services caseloads cut by millions. People being civil, being self-sufficient, capable of making reasonable or even wise life-decisions.

According to some scientists, addiction is 100% preventable, but they're being prevented from researching and proving it.
 
Yes, of course. Imagine if all that could be prevented. Prevented. Jails empty of addicts. Child protective services caseloads cut by millions. People being civil, being self-sufficient, capable of making reasonable or even wise life-decisions.

According to some scientists, addiction is 100% preventable, but they're being prevented from researching and proving it.
Part of the issue is many addicts are lacking to begin with ie life skills ie career, social norms, handling stress. Others are a bit of rebel or 'not me syndrome' they think or assume they can drink/drug days on end year round without it becoming an issue as with other things. There always trying to do things their way. The rules don't apply. I know half century old drunks and druggies and going back to high school/teen years they were or had rebel in them in more ways than one.

Others it's perfect storm of events including health, job, financial, family life, injury or the wrong crowd. That's what would make preventing addiction so tough.

Yes taking 'addictive' types out of the picture would help but there are too many variables that help make a addict.
 
Part of the issue is many addicts are lacking to begin with ie life skills ie career, social norms, handling stress. Others are a bit of rebel or 'not me syndrome' they think or assume they can drink/drug days on end year round without it becoming an issue as with other things. There always trying to do things their way. The rules don't apply. I know half century old drunks and druggies and going back to high school/teen years they were or had rebel in them in more ways than one.

Others it's perfect storm of events including health, job, financial, family life, injury or the wrong crowd. That's what would make preventing addiction so tough.

Yes taking 'addictive' types out of the picture would help but there are too many variables that help make a addict.
Yes, social services and re-education are all good.

But you're focused on current addicts. The scientists I'm talking are saying they can actually eliminate drug addiction within a couple decades. But that ain't gonna happen if they can't do the studies. Opening that door alone could take a decade.
 
It's easy to spot an addict. For example, because it represses hunger, meth causes extreme weight loss and malnourishment, resulting in acute vitamin deficiencies that cause permanent physiological changes everywhere in the body, from the brain to butthole. Fentanyl changes brain chemistry, causing neurological and psychological changes, often permanent. SOME hallucinogens can cause changes in the central nervous system that result in personality changes, some permanent.

Meth addicts lose parental instincts and empathy for others; they can develop bipolar disorder, Empathy Deficit Disorder, disorganized thought processes, various neurosis, etc. Fentanyl addicts can develop mental illness as well, including acute psychosis. Other drugs can cause other mental disorders and illnesses by causing permanent changes in the brain.

So, some researchers and scientists want to study drugs that have the potential to change a person's physiology and/or brain chemistry so that they can't become addicted to drugs. They want to create drugs that prevent addiction.

But they can't get funding for this type of study. (guess who doesn't like the idea, and has been fighting the funding of this type of research for decades? Aw, go on...guess.)
I agree with your assessment of how drugs can change a person’s mind, etc. But a drug to prevent addiction? Hmmm____, I need time to consider the possibility. It is well known that long term narcotics use will cause brain damage. Even short term use can do the same, however, if I only learned one thing spending time learning how to aid drug users is that withdrawals are hell and do deter many from wanting to get detoxed and then going onto rehab. They fear what they don’t know or understand. BTW, up until about 2015, the most addictive narcotic was (drum roll please) nicotine.

When I would speak to groups at churches about being vigilant with their kids for drug use, I recommended that they watch the movie “28 Days.” It gives a very good perspective on how detoxing and rehab work, plus it’s also an entertaining experience.
 
I agree with your assessment of how drugs can change a person’s mind, etc. But a drug to prevent addiction? Hmmm____, I need time to consider the possibility. It is well known that long term narcotics use will cause brain damage. Even short term use can do the same, however, if I only learned one thing spending time learning how to aid drug users is that withdrawals are hell and do deter many from wanting to get detoxed and then going onto rehab. They fear what they don’t know or understand. BTW, up until about 2015, the most addictive narcotic was (drum roll please) nicotine.

When I would speak to groups at churches about being vigilant with their kids for drug use, I recommended that they watch the movie “28 Days.” It gives a very good perspective on how detoxing and rehab work, plus it’s also an entertaining experience.
My granddaughter is an alcoholic and was hospitalized about 2 months ago for alcohol poisoning. They did a medical detox to save her life and it was a horrible experience. Now she's afraid of rehab because she won't accept that it isn't the same thing. It's still not at all pleasant at first, but not the rough ride that a medical detox is.
 
Earlier I spoke of the son of a lady friend of mine who became a heroin addict. I was stuck by the fact that not only was he an addict , but his thinking was substantially different from a "normal" person. Case in point, a lady who lived 8-10 blocks away, talked to my lady friend and told her that she needed someone to clean up the back yard, pulling weeds and chopping down unsightly shrubs, etc. My lady friend talked her addict son into doing the work, by the hour. The work took about 6 hours and when it came time to be paid the addict insisted that he be paid from the time he left home, until the time he returned home. Obviously, that didn't wash with the home owner and she had to explain that no one, absolutely no one, is ever paid for the time it takes to walk to and from a job. This came as a big surprise to the addict. Strange thinking indeed.
 
If you find humans, you are going to find drug use. We love our drugs. I wonder which is worse. We currently have 2.3 million+ in jail, mostly for drug violations. And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out drugs account for a huge swath of crime. And drugs ARE being used REGARDLESS of the best efforts of police agencies. OR, we let people put whatever they want in their bodies. I don't know which is worse. So, we would have people ODing, it's not like that never happens now. But we'd get rid of most crime, empty out costly prisons. I'm not saying unrestrained drug used is a good thing. I wonder if it is the lesser of two evils.
One of the strangest things is when people, who have stopped breathing because of a drug overdose, and are revived by the injection of Narcan, attack their rescuers for interrupting their buzz. I don't think "law" is really going to work on this crowd. It just ain't working.
 
It’s all coming across the southern border, which is NOT closed by any stretch of the imagination. There was a story last week that two guys were arrested in possession of 150,000 fentanyl pills. Drugs were confiscated, but drug runners were let go with no bail. Unsurprisingly they did not show up for their hearing. You want to slow the drug problem? Close the damn border. Not a total solution, I know, but a good start.
 
Good thread considering the reality of a never ending illegal movement, purchase and sale of any highly desired tax free commodity such as "drugs, weapons, people, laundered money, prohibited or questionable services, stolen merchandise, corporate and classified government intelligence documents, etc. etc. etc. that probably rakes in billions of dollars annually is not going anywhere much less be totally eradicated. The every now and then feel good "we are doing something" seizure of a ton or two of low grade coke, a skiff full of pot in black trash bags, a crate of stolen MP5K's, a liftgate truck full of malnourished or just plain dead illegals not from Mexico but more than likely from Central America is just a spoon fed media distraction. Time for bed, I'll finish my post in the A.M. after our tightly scheduled breakfast. TTFN.
 
Kind of doubt that is either possible or would be successful, not so long as the kind of money involved could be stopped.
I respectfully disagree. It is possible, although not 100%. There will always be a few that will get in, which is a long way from the few million that have crossed the past year and a half. Many of these illegals pay for their passage by carrying illegal drugs into our country.
 
I agree with your assessment of how drugs can change a person’s mind, etc. But a drug to prevent addiction? Hmmm____, I need time to consider the possibility. It is well known that long term narcotics use will cause brain damage. Even short term use can do the same, however, if I only learned one thing spending time learning how to aid drug users is that withdrawals are hell and do deter many from wanting to get detoxed and then going onto rehab. They fear what they don’t know or understand. BTW, up until about 2015, the most addictive narcotic was (drum roll please) nicotine.

When I would speak to groups at churches about being vigilant with their kids for drug use, I recommended that they watch the movie “28 Days.” It gives a very good perspective on how detoxing and rehab work, plus it’s also an entertaining experience.

In this movie Sandra Bullock is awesome as usual. Very convincing thanks oldman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28_Days_(film)

 
In this movie Sandra Bullock is awesome as usual. Very convincing thanks oldman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28_Days_(film)

Many Addictionologists, which are also M.D.'s also recommend watching the movie. It's a very inciteful look at the way rehabs work, but only to a point. Medical detoxing is a bit different than just allowing the person to "dry out" or giving the drug addict Naloxone.
 
When I was in my early teens I used to sneak out of our apartment late at night and hang out in Harlem during the 60's and 70's. Mayor Lindsey ramped up the "Methadone Maintenance Program" where heroin addicts were given Methadone and clean syringes so if they continued to use heroin the chances of cross infection would be lower then using syringes tainted with blood containing hepatitis B. The problem with that miserably failed Program was most of the enterprising addicts sold the NYC taxpayer funded methadone and some of the clean syringes for street heroin so they could continue to get that real high. This is the very same mayor that started the "Model Cities Police Program" and other money wasting programs that even Wikipedia is too embarrassed to print.

www.nytimes.com/1971/03/25/archives/lindsey-tours-a-methadone-clinic.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lindsey

A true genius.
 
I know this is not an easy fix - but how did we change from a tobacco-smoking society where everyone smoked in restaurants and hotels (I still remember that) and now you hardly see anyone smoking? How did we stop so many people from smoking? This is mostly about the U.S. I am talking about.

The campaign to stop smoking worked. Why? Smoking was linked to cancer and disease.
You make a good point, and smoking rates have come way down, 42% in 1965 to 14% now. And this could be good model.

However I don't think it would reduce it enough to fix the whole problem. I think some combination with legalization/regulation would work best.
 
I respectfully disagree. It is possible, although not 100%. There will always be a few that will get in, which is a long way from the few million that have crossed the past year and a half. Many of these illegals pay for their passage by carrying illegal drugs into our country.
I think the two issues, illegals and drugs while connected have important differences.

Border closure would probably work to reduce the flow of illegals, but would come at a significant economic impact, to us, not just Mexico. As well as political...

I doubt however that given the money involved it would do a lot to stop drugs coming in. Too much money, too many ways to get them in.

Both seem to me to have reasonable solutions. For illegal immigration some kind of readily available work visa that was temporary, not a path to citizenship or permanence, coupled with a reasonable way to track employers with enforcement to be sure illegals did not get hired. It is possible, but would likely require more compromise than we seem capable of.

For drugs legalize and regulate. Where this has been done drug use rates have not increased, I don't think they would here. The difference is that the money would flow through legal regulated channels, not drug cartels. Again workable, but would require hard compromises.

Continuing to do what we have been doing for the last 50+ years will not work any better than it has...
 


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