Air Canada grounds Egyptian born pilot for anti Jewish comments on line. Link. below.

J

jimintoronto

Well-known Member
Air Canada has suspended one of it's pilots for his anti Jewish comments. The pilot was born in Egypt, and he graduated from a pilot training program in that country. Air Canada released a statement that the pilot was no longer flying Air Canada aircraft. Here is a link to the news article. Note that Air Canada acted quickly, once the company learned of the statements. link.

MSN

I commend Air Canada for their actions. This is not the time to allow a pilot who has expressed anti Jewish sentiments to fly an aircraft full of people. JimB.
 

Another example of what happens it seems like daily............. of a person deciding their view or thought at a moment ....was / or is worth a Career.

i remember a time when companies only had to worry or watch you while ON the Clock but now .....
the companies have to disassociate themselves ASAP when a person is Identified as an employee even if comments / actions were not associated with their job....
some may think that is a good thing but it creates a distrust and big brother state for everyone not just radicals or idiots.
 
Jeni said:
Another example of what happens it seems like daily............. of a person deciding their view or thought at a moment ....was / or is worth a Career.

i remember a time when companies only had to worry or watch you while ON the Clock but now .....
the companies have to disassociate themselves ASAP when a person is Identified as an employee even if comments / actions were not associated with their job....
some may think that is a good thing but it creates a distrust and big brother state for everyone not just radicals or idiots.
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Did you actually read the link I provided ? If not, please do so. JimB.
 

There's a real problem going on. It seems a lot of people are confused about what personal freedom means. I'm uncomfortable with the guy being prevented from flying. On the other hand, some of his passengers are Jewish, and I can fully understand why they wouldn't want to fly with someone who considers them to be terrorists.

Here's the deal, you get to do anything you want in your private life. That's your personal freedom. However, things you do may disqualify you from things in your professional life. When he's in that plane, he represents not himself, but the business that pays his wages. The business needs to protect its reputation, and to not alienate its customers. In 2023, with Social Media, people can easily link the people they're dealing with to their private lives. It can affect the businesses bottom line, so they are protecting themselves. This sounds reasonable.

Would I want my child being taught at school by a person who is on OnlyFans every night performing sex acts? No, not really. Do I feel bad about judging them? No, no I don't. I think the school could do better with hiring teachers. The person still have the freedom to do OnlyFans.

At home, sitting alone, you have all the freedom in the world. But would I want to get in a taxi with a guy who had spent the previous night arrested for DWI? Or someone who has Social Media full of drug taking and racism? No, I wouldn't.

There's a fine line, but I don't know where it is. I can imagine cases where this could be heinous - for example, I'd not be comfortable with someone being fired for their religious belief. It's a fine line, but it's not a straight one, it's jagged.
 
jimintoronto said:
Did you actually read the link I provided ? If not, please do so. JimB.
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i did and it spoke to the items concerning where is the LINE........ weighing the public relations vs employee personal opinion.
frankly i think many many professions hold the public trust and should be held to a standard that is often showed to be leaning in favor of PR.

Do i think Companies can do this yes. He can live with the consequences
my point is why so many still make PUBLIC ( social media) statements knowing it will cost them ?
Where is the point of going to far in people now make campaigns to get someone fired or id them to a job in hopes of company responding like this how far do we go?
 
Jeni said:
i did and it spoke to the items concerning where is the LINE........ weighing the public relations vs employee personal opinion.
frankly i think many many professions hold the public trust and should be held to a standard that is often showed to be leaning in favor of PR.

Do i think Companies can do this yes. He can live with the consequences
my point is why so many still make PUBLIC ( social media) statements knowing it will cost them ?
Where is the point of going to far in people now make campaigns to get someone fired or id them to a job in hopes of company responding like this how far do we go?
Click to expand...

The world we are ushering in means this kind of association will become the norm. As I've stated previously, some employee's already ask for your usernames on Social Media sites as part of the hiring process. I think it's best to assume you're going to be looked up.

Changing user name won't help you either, image searching is pretty good these days. What AI will facilitate are complex algorithms that project into the future about potential conflicts or actions. This is in place today, but in a rudimentary way. I've taken bio metric tests at a job interview, for example. The days when you turned up in your best suit and hoped to impress are over, at least for certain jobs.

We choose what opinions we put online. We choose what Social Media we're going to use. Keeping this in mind is your best defense. I don't think you'll be able to stop it with laws, etc.
 
VaughanJB said:
The world we are ushering in means this kind of association will become the norm. As I've stated previously, some employee's already ask for your usernames on Social Media sites as part of the hiring process. I think it's best to assume you're going to be looked up.

Changing user name won't help you either, image searching is pretty good these days. What AI will facilitate are complex algorithms that project into the future about potential conflicts or actions. This is in place today, but in a rudimentary way. I've taken bio metric tests at a job interview, for example. The days when you turned up in your best suit and hoped to impress are over, at least for certain jobs.

We choose what opinions we put online. We choose what Social Media we're going to use. Keeping this in mind is your best defense. I don't think you'll be able to stop it with laws, etc.
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i do not think adding laws and rules helps much ... so many conflicting things anymore it is impossible to get even real illegal behavior taken care of.
I have never had anyone ask for social media user names etc ... YET
the photo match and such would be useless as shown on a TV show Catfish ... they found Facebook has had up to 12 with exact same photos Often stolen from real pages and used for fake accounts .......
I find most change their minds if the shoe is on the other foot.... and they are in the cross hairs ....
People should KNOW by now to never post or make a scene caught on video etc for this purpose.
 
One of the good things about being old is that I don't have to apply for a job (so far) and I don't have to worry about a prospective employer asking for my social media accounts.

On the other hand there is the IRS and other arms of my government that likely already have them and could decide to take action against my opinions at any time.
 
People should know better than to post anything controversial on social media. A relative is in the military and a pilot and purposefully has no social media accounts. A pilot has many people’s lives in his/hers hands daily so airlines have to error on the side of caution.
 
Tolerance is out in Canada and intolerance is in and increasing it's presence by leaps and bounds on a daily basis. Better be careful of what you say is the norm! Best not to say too much or even better; don't say anything at all! Better to be safe than sorry!
 
The guy is a pilot, not a policy maker. Or was he guilty of chastising passengers over the PA on his flights?

I believe there are people doing far worse, far more effectively due to their positions and power.
 
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dilettante said:
The guy is a pilot, not a policy maker. Or was he guilting of chastising passengers over the PA on his flights?

I believe there are people doing far worse, far more effectively due to their positions and power.
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I would generally agree but it's a little different when a person with a few hundred lives in his hands makes such statements. What if he decided to act out his feelings by crashing a passenger plane into a building? It wouldn't be the first time it happened.
 
dilettante said:
The guy is a pilot, not a policy maker. Or was he guilting of chastising passengers over the PA on his flights?

I believe there are people doing far worse, far more effectively due to their positions and power.
Click to expand...
The pilot was suspended, Air Canada has said that he MAY be allowed to fly cargo aircraft, with no passengers, at some time in the future. In the real world, I very much doubt that any other Air Canada pilots will be willing to fly with him. Their union has made it very clear that he is a pariah now. JImB.
 
One of the things you learn working for an airline is to keep your opinions to yourself. However, everyone should be allowed to their sentiments, but expressing them to everyone is not a good idea. We think the first amendment affords us all kinds of protection, but in reality, it really doesn’t. I may be biased, but I think a suspension would have been discipline enough. Firing someone for expressing their views as a bit over the top.

Even though Canada observes freedom of speech, they are held accountable if what they say is hateful or harmful to another sect. If the pilot would have taken the time to read Air Canada’s policy manual, he may have read it in the section under freedom of speech.

I was training a black pilot years ago when another Captain (he should have known better) used the “N” word to another pilot when he saw me speaking with the black pilot. The pilot then relayed what was said to his supervisor and he was fired that same day. Again, I thought suspension was enough of a discipline and we went to arbitration.

I was also the union rep at that time for my section’s pilots. The judge ruled in favor of the company. The judge made the comment that he didn’t disagree with what I submitted as a disciplinary action, but a more severe action was necessary in this case because he made the same statement to more than one other pilot. Why that made a difference, I didn’t know. At that time, we had no appeal. Today, I believe they do.

Was the pilot fired or suspended?
 
jimintoronto said:
The pilot was suspended, Air Canada has said that he MAY be allowed to fly cargo aircraft, with no passengers, at some time in the future. In the real world, I very much doubt that any other Air Canada pilots will be willing to fly with him. Their union has made it very clear that he is a pariah now. JImB.
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He may end up here in the U.S. flying. I would fly with him. I believe in the first amendment and what people think is their right. It could be that other pilots thought the same, but were too afraid to say it.
 
oldman said:
He may end up here in the U.S. flying. I would fly with him. I believe in the first amendment and what people think is their right. It could be that other pilots thought the same, but were too afraid to say it.
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Please go back to the original post, and look at the photo of this pilot. While wearing an Air Canada uniform, including his issued hat, he is also wearing a Palestinian flag, wrapped around his shoulders. The photo is in the MSN link that I provided. To me, that makes it very clear why his employer acted so quickly to remove him from operations. JimB.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I couldn't find any of the pilot's anti Jewish posts, only a report that he wrote some. Without a way to judge how aggressive those posts were, there's no way to judge the pilot's intent and possible threat.
But since the airline company found out about them, that maybe an indication of their serious nature.
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Fuzzy. Please go back to my original post, and look at the MSN link that I provided. In that link, this Air Canada pilot is seen wearing his Air Canada uniform, while also having a Palestinian flag wrapped around his shoulders. The photo is very obviously a selfie, taken by the pilot, himself. That is why Air Canada suspended him. JimB.
 
dilettante said:
The guy is a pilot, not a policy maker. Or was he guilty of chastising passengers over the PA on his flights?

I believe there are people doing far worse, far more effectively due to their positions and power.
Click to expand...
Cancel culture definitely gets carried away..At least he only got suspended.

But from a business stand point not a good look and from a security stand point I can see why because there have been a few Muslim pilots that committed suicide over the years by crashing their plane and passengers
 
How soon we forget 911. There is a well documented history of pilots flying planes into buildings as most Americans and Canadians remember well.

I do support freedom of speech and I do think that Canada goes too far in limiting speech in many instances but not in this one. There is also some legal difference in freedom of speech in general and speech that hurts your employer. I don't always agree with limiting it but this is speech that definitely hurts the employer and could get the pilot on a no-fly list, IMO.

Common sense tells me that an airline has a responsibility to protect its passengers and its own interests. If this goes to court I believe the airline will win.
 
Myrtle said:
How soon we forget 911. There is a well documented history of pilots flying planes into buildings as most Americans and Canadians remember well ........

Common sense tells me that an airline has a responsibility to protect its passengers and its own interests. If this goes to court I believe the airline will win.
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Even before 9/11 there were issues. The Egypt Air 917 crash in 1999 was believed to be the act of a suicidal Muslim pilot.

Possible Pilot Suicide on EgyptAir Raises a New Specter for Aviation - WSJ

Some go so far as to say it helped inspire 9/11.

Regardless just for security/passenger safety this pilot probably deserves a little more scrutiny right now especially considering what happened in 1999
 
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WhatInThe said:
Cancel culture definitely gets carried away..At least he only got suspended.

But from a business stand point not a good look and from a security stand point I can see why because there have been a few Muslim pilots that committed suicide over the years by crashing their plane and passengers
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He was fired by Air Canada, yesterday. He may be investigated by the Canadian Ministry of Transport, to determine if his Canadian pilot license should be revoked. If that happens, he won't be able to fly any type of aircraft, in Canada. JimB
 

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