Air India Jet Bound for the UK has crashed on take off...242 on board

[hollydolly]

An aviation expert believes the co-pilot on Air India flight AI171 pulled the plane's wing flaps instead of retracting the landing gear, causing the plane to crash.

Commercial airline pilot and YouTuber Captain Steve, who analyzes plane crashes and close calls, gave his theory on the incident which killed 241 people on board.

Commercial airline pilot and YouTuber Captain Steve, who analyzes plane crashes and close calls, gave his theory on the incident which killed 241 people on board




Steve said he suspected there had been an exceptionally simple error in the cockpit when the co-pilot was asked to retract the landing gear, with devastating consequences.

He said: 'Here's what I think happened, again folks this is just my opinion. I think the pilot flying said to the co-pilot said 'gear up' at the appropriate time.

'I think the co-pilot grabbed the flap handle and raised the flaps, instead of the gear. If that happened, this explains a lot of why this airplane stopped flying.'

Steve said that the flaps being raised would cause the flight to lose airspeed and altitude quickly, something he thinks the pilot would have struggled to control.

He explained his theory by saying the 787's composite wings would normally bend during take off as lift forces take it into the air.

But the Air India plane appears to show no such bending, amid widespread speculation the flaps which help lift the plane off had accidentally been retracted.

Co-Pilot

 

[Tish]

Absolutely heartbreaking.

 

[oldman]

I really don’t know what’s considered old for a plane either but I bet @oldman knows. It’s really heartbreaking. Intellectually I know it’s the safest way to travel but I really hate flying now for many reasons.

It’s really not about the age of the aircraft that determines when it is removed from service. Instead, the number of pressurizations, meaning the number of times when the plane has been readied for takeoff and the pilot pressurizes the fuselage and as the plane ascends the pressurization is increased. When the plane has descended for landing, the pressurization is, of course, decreased. This is counted as one pressurization.

To make this all sound simpler, if I were to say each takeoff and landing is one pressurization would mostly be correct. As an example, the Boeing 737 usually goes through around 70,000 pressurizations before being retired. The 787 that crashed goes only about 44,000 pressurizations. Why? Because the newer planes are made with composite materials and take less expansions and retractions, which is what a pressurization is.

If you would see what happens during a pressurization, it would make you shake your head. When the plane is pressurized, it looks like a balloon being blown open and when it’s depressurized, it would look like the air is being let out of the balloon

I hope I haven’t confused anyone.

 

[oldman]

An aviation expert believes the co-pilot on Air India flight AI171 pulled the plane's wing flaps instead of retracting the landing gear, causing the plane to crash.

Commercial airline pilot and YouTuber Captain Steve, who analyzes plane crashes and close calls, gave his theory on the incident which killed 241 people on board.

Commercial airline pilot and YouTuber Captain Steve, who analyzes plane crashes and close calls, gave his theory on the incident which killed 241 people on board




Steve said he suspected there had been an exceptionally simple error in the cockpit when the co-pilot was asked to retract the landing gear, with devastating consequences.

He said: 'Here's what I think happened, again folks this is just my opinion. I think the pilot flying said to the co-pilot said 'gear up' at the appropriate time.

'I think the co-pilot grabbed the flap handle and raised the flaps, instead of the gear. If that happened, this explains a lot of why this airplane stopped flying.'

Steve said that the flaps being raised would cause the flight to lose airspeed and altitude quickly, something he thinks the pilot would have struggled to control.

He explained his theory by saying the 787's composite wings would normally bend during take off as lift forces take it into the air.

But the Air India plane appears to show no such bending, amid widespread speculation the flaps which help lift the plane off had accidentally been retracted.

Co-Pilot

Maybe I was onto something yesterday when I suggested the flaps weren’t deployed. Captain Steve thinks the non flying pilot pulled the flaps lever instead of the landing gear lever. I never heard of this type of mistake because these levers are in two different locations and are well marked, but we are human, so mistakes are made.

If that’s what happened, that mistake could not have been corrected in time to save the plane. Once the plane looses lift and it’s only at around 650 feet of altitude, game over. The pilot won’t have enough altitude or time to correct the situation.

It’s very important that the cause is determined. I think the investigators will learn a lot from the CVR, or Cockpit Voice Recorder.

 

[hollydolly]

Looks like they may have actually discovered what caused the crash.... not the previous theories

 

[Teacher Terry]

That’s bad news for both Boeing and anyone flying on that type of aircraft(.

 

[hollydolly]

A British Airways flight from London to India had to turn around mid-air when it suffered a 'flap failure' - just days after the same model was involved in the Air India disaster that killed all but one passenger.

The Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner was yesterday less than an hour into its journey from Heathrow to Chennai when a pilot suspected a 'technical issue'.

The BA35 flight circled for an hour over the strait of Dover to dump fuel before safely landing back on the runway at 1.50pm, according to data on Flightradar24.
It will raise further questions about safety concerns with the Boeing model, and comes on the back of a bombshell video of the Air India tragedy which an aviation expert claimed it proved the plane suffered a 'dual engine failure' before a catastrophic crash that killed 241 passengers.


Unverified footage posted on social media from onboard the aircraft showed fuel being dumped.

A BA spokesperson said: 'The aircraft returned to Heathrow as a standard precaution after reports of a technical issue.

'The flight landed safely with crew and customers disembarking as they normally would, and our teams worked hard to get their journeys back on track as soon as possible.'

 

[oldman]

The Inspectors will remove the engines and take off the cowls or covers and they will be able to tell if the engines were running at the time of the crash. If they were running at the time of the crash, that will eliminate the double engine failure theory. If the engines were not running at the time of the crash, it would most likely be caused by a failure of fuel being supplied to the engines.

But, here's another issue with that theory. In each wing is a fuel tank. The left engine receives fuel from the left wing tank and the right engine receives fuel from the right wing tank. These pumps operate independently. If one side (engine) fails and the other engine is still running, the "crossfeed valve" would be engaged allowing fuel from one side to fuel the other side. (Confusing, right?)

So, it is possible that there was fuel contamination, maybe by water in the fuel, or oil may have gotten into the fuel by a leaky valve.

Only a complete inspection of the engines and information from the CVR and FDR will either confirm or disclaim the double engine failure theory. I had the RAT deploy on one of my flights, but I will have to search my journals to find the details. I can't even remember the flight let alone the date. However, as Capt. Steve said, for all the higher the plane was, the RAT didn't do them much good. There just wasn't enough time because of the low altitude to take any correctable action to save the plane.

Honestly, I think Boeing should start looking at their vendors. Are they buying excellent parts or is Boeing trying to save money by buying less than excellent parts or what some would call "after market."

I remember in 1991 a United Boeing 737 crashed in Colorado Springs killing all 25 souls onboard. I think it was the third flight that had issues with the Parker-Hannifin servo valve that operates the rudder (PCU) power control unit. The first plane to crash because of the valve was a US Air that crashed in Pittsburgh killing all 132 souls onboard and Eastwind Airlines also had the issue, but luck was on their side as the valve became unstuck before crashing. It took the NTSB three crashes before they figured out the reason behind the crashes.

TMI?