And so...the "recession" begins

you can bet we will be throwing away good money paying more for these cars made here then we shouldl

plus corporations will lose more in global sales hurting those jobs and companies .
no one wins when you artificially try to force people to buy products that are already done better and cheaper then we can.

every country excels at doing somet better and cheaper than the pack and it’s this global market that brings us the most value for our hard earned dollars
 

A significant portion of the production of those cars already takes place within the US. All that is changing is relocating additional volume to the US.

Much of a vehicle that sees final assembly in Mexico or Canada starts the process within the US. Many parts and even entire drivetrains are already assembled here before a body gets bolted on. My own 2018 was produced in Indiana before the body stage, which was assembled in the UK before being shipped back here for sale.

That's quite inefficient, but likely driven by things like existing plant capacity and market-distorting incentives from various levels of government. Rationalizing production once more can actually bring down costs. Trans-national shipping can add a lot of unproductive greedy hands dipping into the till.
 
dilettante said:
A significant portion of the production of those cars already takes place within the US. All that is changing is relocating additional volume to the US.

Much of a vehicle that sees final assembly in Mexico or Canada starts the process within the US. Many parts and even entire drivetrains are already assembled here before a body gets bolted on. My own 2018 was produced in Indiana before the body stage, which was assembled in the UK before being shipped back here for sale.

That's quite inefficient, but likely driven by things like existing plant capacity and market-distorting incentives from various levels of government. Rationalizing production once more can actually bring down costs. Trans-national shipping can add a lot of unproductive greedy hands dipping into the till.
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We assemble here

The manufacturing is done elsewhere

Components and parts are still tariffed

This will only cost us more

I won’t even buy most American cars made here

They still suck

My jeep Sahara was awful

It had so many defects

My Lexus is letter perfect
 

So first: "It's never going to happen."
Then: "It will cost too much."
Now: "Quality will suffer."

What next? You're kind of running out of ground.

Oh, and who buys a Stellantis product with any expectation of suitability for purpose? Surely everyone realizes that a "Jeep" is a Fiat-Peugeot?
 
Most assembly plants have stamping and plastics departments, along with body assembly, paint, and even powertrain departments, etc. Generally, there are foundries within the U.S. for casting engines, etc. Seat manufacture is usually nearby. Sheet metal comes from mostly U.S. sources, then stamped before welding and assembly.

Certainly there are smaller components that are "foreign" sourced, but nearly all auto plants, along with hundreds of other facilities, including oil refineries... operated within FTZ areas.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
Most assembly plants have stamping and plastics departments, along with body assembly, paint, and even powertrain departments, etc. Generally, there are foundries within the U.S. for casting engines, etc. Seat manufacture is usually nearby. Sheet metal comes from mostly U.S. sources, then stamped before welding and assembly.

Certainly there are smaller components that are "foreign" sourced, but nearly all auto plants, along with hundreds of other facilities, including oil refineries... operated within FTZ areas.
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mark my words

we will all get burned with higher prices on everything we make here that we don’t already excel at doing better and cheaper than other countries.

there is no good going to come out of this for the typical american trying to live on what they have already.

we all our going to pay the price as well as not benefit from the fact other countries do things better and cheaper anymore elevating our standard of living and bringing us better value for our money
 
mathjak107 said:
mark my words

we will all get burned with higher prices on everything we make here that we don’t already excel at doing better and cheaper than other countries.

there is no good going to come out of this for the typical american trying to live on what they have already.

we all our going to pay the price as well as not benefit from the fact other countries do things better and cheaper anymore elevating our standard of living and bringing us better value for our money
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There will likely be higher prices, but supply/demand will determine how much. The end user will determine what is too much and the supply chain for that product will adjust, as none of them can stay in business... without that ultimate sale of a product. There likely will be some re-shoring of some components to bypass these tariffs.

It will likely be painful, but we have been offshoring for the past 40 years, which is the only reason for our low inflation rates during that period. Within this period, the almighty USD has been artificially propped up via currency manipulation and demand for USD assets to the point where we have a net international debt position of -$26.2T and a gross debt position of -$27.6T.

We are nearing the end of the gravy train, imho.
 
Harry Le Hermit said:
There will likely be higher prices, but supply/demand will determine how much. The end user will determine what is too much and the supply chain for that product will adjust, as none of them can stay in business... without that ultimate sale of a product. There likely will be some re-shoring of some components to bypass these tariffs.

It will likely be painful, but we have been offshoring for the past 40 years, which is the only reason for our low inflation rates during that period. Within this period, the almighty USD has been artificially propped up via currency manipulation and demand for USD assets to the point where we have a net international debt position of -$26.2T and a gross debt position of -$27.6T.

We are nearing the end of the gravy train, imho.
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and offshoring brought us better quality products at lower and lower prices and we all benefited from that .

there is no way that will continue with trying to artificially manipulate a global market to force products less than the value we already have access to.

it would be a snow balls chance in hell of anything we do here offering us better value then we already have .

but let’s see what unfolds as things now are unsustainable
 
evidently with american corporations recording record profits overseas , yes.

the america’s public only buys foreign goods for one reason , because those products offer the best value for our money . we don’t buy japanese cars because the emperor of japan promises to buy something from us

at one time decades ago the world had little to offer us . but today the world is a big place and offers more goods at better quality and price and so we buy more from them then them from us .

personally who cares , this globally linked economy worked for all of us as consumers
 
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smiley said:
Surely the question is has the USA been trading fairly all these years or not and if not then the gravy train is now empty?
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We went with the strong dollar philosophy and now the chickens are coming home to roost. When our trade deficit grew, those foreign traders did not repatriate those gains to their native currencies, but used the USD to offset their own trade deficits in such areas as crude oil, etc. Then it became popular to purchase US treasuries (Japan) to avoid repatriating to native currencies, as well as locating plants and facilities (investing) in the USA.

Sounds good until China entered the picture. Early on they definitely manipulated their currency, but now rely on purchasing of U.S. based assets (dollar based) to keep their equilibrium. Supply and demand works with currencies, as well as consumer goods.
 
ultimately the only reason our dollar is taken in other countries is because somewhere at the end of the line someone wants to buy something from us

you can’t spend a dollar in tokyo.

so every dollar taken is only taken in a foreign country because it can be traded to someone who eventually will spend that dollar on something american.

so trade deficits really are much ado about nothing .

it just means the world has more desirable stuff we want than we offer
 
mathjak107 said:
ultimately the only reason our dollar is taken in other countries is because somewhere at the end of the line someone wants to buy something from us

you can’t spend a dollar in tokyo.

so every dollar taken is only taken because it can be traded to someone who eventually will spend that dollar on something american
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Ah that's the way it works then - I see now! so have you been spending too much abroad then?
 
A big goal in this is to reverse the trend of growing income inequality. The wealthy will see their holdings sag and to some degree evaporate, while the lower-middle and working classes will see opportunity and once more fall within the grasp of aspiration for the lower class.

BYD is notorious for use of convict labor. Apple is just as culpable for its reliance on child labor. Both cases operating under terrible conditions. How can one justify a "need" for such "blood products?"

We can't expect the wealthy to be enthusiastic about this. Indeed, their gravy train is coming to an end.
 
dilettante said:
A big goal in this is to reverse the trend of growing income inequality. The wealthy will see their holdings sag and to some degree evaporate, while the lower-middle and working classes will see opportunity and once more fall within the grasp of aspiration for the lower class.

BYD is notorious for use of convict labor. Apple is just as culpable for its reliance on child labor. Both cases operating under terrible conditions. How can one justify a "need" for such "blood products?"

We can't expect the wealthy to be enthusiastic about this. Indeed, their gravy train is coming to an end.
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no one gives a crap about me ,but me .

i have to do what it takes so i remain financially solvent .

i want the best value for my money .

i can’t worry about what other countries do , much of which is usually myth or not the entire picture.


the company i still work one day a week for was forced to out source the industrial water pump business or fail making them here .

we couldn’t win any bids . between the costs here and meeting epa requirements it was a losing battle .

so we got a nice new state of the art cnc factory in china to make them .

while wages are low the part not told is the factory provides housing , health care and transportation for the workers
.
making them overseas was better and cheaper then we could do it here .

we do the engineering , assembly , and quality control here .

we have 320 employees here in 5 states .

we do 160 million a year now in sales .

that is a business that would have failed .

we do so much business with our vendors that they had to open more warehouses here and hire so many workers just to support us .

siemens opened local offices to support us since we sell millions in siemens motor controls.

so the mere fact we could remain competitive made not only us successful but the hundreds of vendors here that support us and sell us product and services.

i was a sales engineer wth them since they started almost 3 decades ago
 
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With the tariff whiplash nowhere near ending, I received an intermediate across-the-board increase of 6.5% for all products from my primary vendor, effective June 1st. Other vendors have issued warnings that increases are in the works with details to follow.

All warn that when the 90 day pause on reciprocal tariffs ends in July, rates may bump again.

Note: there has been ZERO mention of moving manufacturing to the US.

The astronomical tariff rate on Chinese goods (apparently) stands at 145% - 245% right now, and China's rate on goods imported from the US at 125%. A ridiculous game of ¿Quién es Más Macho?, for which ultimate consumers in both countries will pay the price.
 
Reshoring Is Reshaping the Pharmaceutical Industry | Hygenix, Inc.

Recent geopolitical developments have heightened the urgency for domestic manufacturing. The Trump administration's consideration of tariffs on pharmaceutical imports has prompted companies like Eli Lilly to announce substantial investments in U.S. manufacturing infrastructure. Eli Lilly plans to invest $27 billion in building four new U.S. plants, aiming to mitigate potential tariff impacts and ensure a stable supply chain.​
 
dilettante said:
Reshoring Is Reshaping the Pharmaceutical Industry | Hygenix, Inc.

Recent geopolitical developments have heightened the urgency for domestic manufacturing. The Trump administration's consideration of tariffs on pharmaceutical imports has prompted companies like Eli Lilly to announce substantial investments in U.S. manufacturing infrastructure. Eli Lilly plans to invest $27 billion in building four new U.S. plants, aiming to mitigate potential tariff impacts and ensure a stable supply chain.​
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luckily my trulicity from eli lilly is capped at 2,000 .

you know how much that will soar in price either way
 
In the meantime if you need your fix for cheap Chinese crap, you can often bypass Benedict Arnold profiteers simply by buying via AliExpress and such.
 
dilettante said:
In the meantime if you need your fix for cheap Chinese crap, you can often bypass Benedict Arnold profiteers simply by buying via AliExpress and such.
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i don’t buy cheap china crap .

anything i buy is a world class product and tops in its class from world wide corporations that oversee their own factor there like nikon as example
 
dilettante said:
Why should any given commentator address the issue universally? A major thrust of the tariff binge is to reverse globalism and repatriate manufacturing jobs. Auto production is one key area.

He's since posted more. Honda is said to be moving production of the Civic for the US market from even plants in Japan to US manufacturing facilities now. For all we know they may even claw back the Canadian production of Civic sedans to the US as well, joining hatchback production.

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He can address whatever issue he likes. I can find videos from any number of speakers and their opinions, just as many express their opinions in the forum.
 
If you read some of the comments that people high up in this administration have said or written the intent is to make everyone poor. They actually stated that poor people are easier to control because they are spending all their time just trying to survive. Of course the billionaires are getting richer.

I will be spending as little as possible in the next 4 years but of course it may not be over by then and who knows how long it will take to repair all the damage that is being done. Probably our generation will not live to see it. I really feel bad for the children that have to suffer because of this. I just hope that we don’t have a depression because of all the idiotic things that the government is doing.
 
My spending has not changed. So far I see little sign of a recession in my state. If we do have a recession it will be due to a record high state tax increase at the same time the state is receiving record high revenue. These tax increases could tip us into state wide downturn.
 

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