Another Day, Another Shooting

Well, really what should we expect from a media industry that has no morals and education for technology, not education for citizenship?

All Christians understand the importance of Bible stories. In the past, Britain and the US relied on literature to teach the young how to be good citizens. I think we have lost that wisdom.
 
Vida May said:
Well, really what should we expect from a media industry that has no morals and education for technology, not education for citizenship?

All Christians understand the importance of Bible stories. In the past, Britain and the US relied on literature to teach the young how to be good citizens. I think we have lost that wisdom.
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Really?
  • What do serial killers Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Earle Nelson, Henry Lee Lucas, Gary Ridgway, Dean Corll and Wayne Williams have in common? They are white Anglosaxon Christians. There are only two black serial killer: Samuel Little and John Allen (the "D.C. sniper" of 2001).
    What do mass shooters Connor Betts (Dayton nightclub, Aug 2019), Patrick Crusius (El Paso Walmart, Aug 2019), DeWayne Craddock (Virginia Beach, May 2019), David Long (Thousand Oaks, Nov 2018), Robert Bowers (Pittsburgh synagogue, Oct 2018), Dimitrios Pagourtzis (Santa Fe High School, May 2018), Nikolas Cruz (Stoneman Douglas High School, Feb 2018), Devin Kelley (Sutherland Springs church, Nov 2017), Stephen Paddock (Las Vegas, Oct 2017), Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook, Dec 2012), James Holmes (Aurora theater, July 2012), Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine High School, April 1999), George Hennard (Killeen, 1991), James Huberty (San Ysidro, 1984), Charles Whitman (Austin, 1966) and Patrick Sherill (Edmond, 1986) have in common? They are white Christian men. There is only one (one) mass shooting carried out by an Asian, Seung-Hui Cho (Virginia Tech, Apr 2007), and two (two) carried out by Muslims: Omar Mateen (Orlando nightclub, June 2016) and Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik (San Bernardino, Dec 2015). Not a single mass shooting by a black man (more than 9 people killed).
    Mass shooters and serial killers are white Christian men, with rare exceptions, and frequently with Anglosaxon last names.
    ("Mass shooting" and "serial killer" here refers to more than 9 homicides. The higher the threshold you choose, the more likely that they are mostly white Christians with an Anglosaxon last name. The lower the threshold, the more likely that there are also other groups. Racists lower the threshold of "mass shooting" to two victims so that most killers are from poor violent neighborhoods, i.e. blacks; but most of us think that a "mass" shooting is not a shooting of two people; two is not a "mass").
    These are routinely classified as cases of "mental illness" but why is it that this kind of mental illness seems to affect mainly white Christian men born in the USA? Note that articles on these mass shootings often omit the name of the shooter (they normally only mention the place and date), whereas any article on an Islamic terrorist attack would include the names of the attackers (to emphasize their religion and origin).
    What was Timothy McVeigh, the author of the biggest terrorist attack in the USA carried out by a citizen (Oklahoma City, 1995)? A white Anglosaxon Christian. What about the soldiers who committed atrocities in Vietnam, like William Calley (My Lai massacre, 1968), and Iraq, like the five who gang-raped a little Iraqi girl and then murdered her and her entire family (Mahmudiyah massacre, 2006)? White Christian men. What were the militia members who in 2020 were planning to kidnap and overthrow Michigan's governor Gretchen Whitmer? White Christian men.
    What do televangelist Jimmy Swaggart, evangelical minister Ted Haggard, Republican senator Larry Craig and Republican senator David Vitter, all of them involved in prostitution or sex molestation scandals? They are white Anglosaxon Christians. And so is Republican politician Roy Moore, accused in 2017 of molesting underage girls, and so is Jim Zeigler, the state auditor of Alabama, who justified Moore's behavior by noting that the Virgin Mary was a teenager when approached by Joseph the adult carpenter (thus revealing that the story of Jesus can be used as propaganda for child molestation).
 
Vida May said:
Well, really what should we expect from a media industry that has no morals and education for technology, not education for citizenship?

All Christians understand the importance of Bible stories. In the past, Britain and the US relied on literature to teach the young how to be good citizens. I think we have lost that wisdom.
Click to expand...
Yes, we need to get back to basics.
 
win231 said:
Really?
  • What do serial killers Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Earle Nelson, Henry Lee Lucas, Gary Ridgway, Dean Corll and Wayne Williams have in common? They are white Anglosaxon Christians. There are only two black serial killer: Samuel Little and John Allen (the "D.C. sniper" of 2001).
    What do mass shooters Connor Betts (Dayton nightclub, Aug 2019), Patrick Crusius (El Paso Walmart, Aug 2019), DeWayne Craddock (Virginia Beach, May 2019), David Long (Thousand Oaks, Nov 2018), Robert Bowers (Pittsburgh synagogue, Oct 2018), Dimitrios Pagourtzis (Santa Fe High School, May 2018), Nikolas Cruz (Stoneman Douglas High School, Feb 2018), Devin Kelley (Sutherland Springs church, Nov 2017), Stephen Paddock (Las Vegas, Oct 2017), Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook, Dec 2012), James Holmes (Aurora theater, July 2012), Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine High School, April 1999), George Hennard (Killeen, 1991), James Huberty (San Ysidro, 1984), Charles Whitman (Austin, 1966) and Patrick Sherill (Edmond, 1986) have in common? They are white Christian men. There is only one (one) mass shooting carried out by an Asian, Seung-Hui Cho (Virginia Tech, Apr 2007), and two (two) carried out by Muslims: Omar Mateen (Orlando nightclub, June 2016) and Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik (San Bernardino, Dec 2015). Not a single mass shooting by a black man (more than 9 people killed).
    Mass shooters and serial killers are white Christian men, with rare exceptions, and frequently with Anglosaxon last names.
    ("Mass shooting" and "serial killer" here refers to more than 9 homicides. The higher the threshold you choose, the more likely that they are mostly white Christians with an Anglosaxon last name. The lower the threshold, the more likely that there are also other groups. Racists lower the threshold of "mass shooting" to two victims so that most killers are from poor violent neighborhoods, i.e. blacks; but most of us think that a "mass" shooting is not a shooting of two people; two is not a "mass").
    These are routinely classified as cases of "mental illness" but why is it that this kind of mental illness seems to affect mainly white Christian men born in the USA? Note that articles on these mass shootings often omit the name of the shooter (they normally only mention the place and date), whereas any article on an Islamic terrorist attack would include the names of the attackers (to emphasize their religion and origin).
    What was Timothy McVeigh, the author of the biggest terrorist attack in the USA carried out by a citizen (Oklahoma City, 1995)? A white Anglosaxon Christian. What about the soldiers who committed atrocities in Vietnam, like William Calley (My Lai massacre, 1968), and Iraq, like the five who gang-raped a little Iraqi girl and then murdered her and her entire family (Mahmudiyah massacre, 2006)? White Christian men. What were the militia members who in 2020 were planning to kidnap and overthrow Michigan's governor Gretchen Whitmer? White Christian men.
    What do televangelist Jimmy Swaggart, evangelical minister Ted Haggard, Republican senator Larry Craig and Republican senator David Vitter, all of them involved in prostitution or sex molestation scandals? They are white Anglosaxon Christians. And so is Republican politician Roy Moore, accused in 2017 of molesting underage girls, and so is Jim Zeigler, the state auditor of Alabama, who justified Moore's behavior by noting that the Virgin Mary was a teenager when approached by Joseph the adult carpenter (thus revealing that the story of Jesus can be used as propaganda for child molestation).
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In a country where 64% identify as Christian (it was 90% not long ago) most serial killers are going to be Christian, most anything, from orange juice drinkers to car owners, are going to be Christian. That's what they learned to check on the forms when they were little kids, even if they never stepped inside a church.

Televangelists tend to be show business charlatans, always have, they represent a tiny proportion of Christians.

I'll bet we could take your same list and find that the thing they have most in common is most of them are gun owners.
 
win231 said:
These are routinely classified as cases of "mental illness" but why is it that this kind of mental illness seems to affect mainly white Christian men born in the USA?
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A deep seated sense of entitlement, and a mind consuming fear that they will lose that centuries old advantage that white, "Christian" men have enjoyed in this country. Also, a gut gnawing rage in seeing people enjoy their rights...their lives, people that those white Christian males feel superior to, minorities, recent immigrants, those in the LBGTQ community.
 
Della said:
In a country where 64% identify as Christian (it was 90% not long ago) most serial killers are going to be Christian, most anything, from orange juice drinkers to car owners, are going to be Christian. That's what they learned to check on the forms when they were little kids, even if they never stepped inside a church.

Televangelists tend to be show business charlatans, always have, they represent a tiny proportion of Christians.

I'll bet we could take your same list and find that the thing they have most in common is most of them are gun owners.
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It has nothing whatsoever to do with what religion someone is. You are just as mistaken in your assumptions as Vida May.
 
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win231 said:
It has nothing whatsoever to do with what religion someone is.
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Then what is your point? Why name all those murderers and say that they were all white Christians then? Are you just trying to make some racist point about white people being more inclined to murder?

I have no idea why whites are more likely to commit what's classed as "mass" murder,
but murder is murder and every person's life matters whether or not they were killed in a group.
According to Wikipedia: According to the FBI 2019 Uniform Crime Report, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3% in cases where the race was known.

Considering that 14 percent of the population commits 55.9 percent of the murders, your lengthy essay about "white Anglo-Saxon Christians" doesn't add up to much.

I don't think these numbers have anything to do with religion or race, but with poverty and urban living.
 
Della said:
Then what is your point? Why name all those murderers and say that they were all white Christians then? Are you just trying to make some racist point about white people being more inclined to murder?

I have no idea why whites are more likely to commit what's classed as "mass" murder,
but murder is murder and every person's life matters whether or not they were killed in a group.
According to Wikipedia: According to the FBI 2019 Uniform Crime Report, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019, with whites 41.1%, and "Other" 3% in cases where the race was known.

Considering that 14 percent of the population commits 55.9 percent of the murders, your lengthy essay about "white Anglo-Saxon Christians" doesn't add up to much.

I don't think these numbers have anything to do with religion or race, but with poverty and urban living.
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If you'll re-read post #5, you should get it.
Or, maybe you won't.
 
There are good Christians and bad Christians, good Muslims and bad, good and bad people of all religions, races, genders, ethnicity, and cultures. Too often, though, people do bad things in the name of religion, which is what makes belief in the supernatural dangerous.

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
~ Steven Weinberg
 
SeniorBen said:
There are good Christians and bad Christians, good Muslims and bad, good and bad people of all religions, races, genders, ethnicity, and cultures. Too often, though, people do bad things in the name of religion, which is what makes belief in the supernatural dangerous.

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
~ Steven Weinberg
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I think that's bigoted BS.

People, whether "good" or "bad," sometimes do evil things out of passionate love or out of desire for a drug or addiction to gambling or financial problems or custody of a child. There are many reasons someone who has been considered "good" by the community might suddenly do something evil.
 
helenbacque said:
Being brainwashed by a crazy cult leader (for instance, Charles Manson) will also convinced otherwise decent people to do horrible things.
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The only people who can be brainwashed are those with half a brain to begin with.
And no decent person can be convinced to do horrible things.
 
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win231 said:
Really?
  • What do serial killers Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Earle Nelson, Henry Lee Lucas, Gary Ridgway, Dean Corll and Wayne Williams have in common? They are white Anglosaxon Christians. There are only two black serial killer: Samuel Little and John Allen (the "D.C. sniper" of 2001).
    What do mass shooters Connor Betts (Dayton nightclub, Aug 2019), Patrick Crusius (El Paso Walmart, Aug 2019), DeWayne Craddock (Virginia Beach, May 2019), David Long (Thousand Oaks, Nov 2018), Robert Bowers (Pittsburgh synagogue, Oct 2018), Dimitrios Pagourtzis (Santa Fe High School, May 2018), Nikolas Cruz (Stoneman Douglas High School, Feb 2018), Devin Kelley (Sutherland Springs church, Nov 2017), Stephen Paddock (Las Vegas, Oct 2017), Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook, Dec 2012), James Holmes (Aurora theater, July 2012), Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine High School, April 1999), George Hennard (Killeen, 1991), James Huberty (San Ysidro, 1984), Charles Whitman (Austin, 1966) and Patrick Sherill (Edmond, 1986) have in common? They are white Christian men. There is only one (one) mass shooting carried out by an Asian, Seung-Hui Cho (Virginia Tech, Apr 2007), and two (two) carried out by Muslims: Omar Mateen (Orlando nightclub, June 2016) and Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik (San Bernardino, Dec 2015). Not a single mass shooting by a black man (more than 9 people killed).
    Mass shooters and serial killers are white Christian men, with rare exceptions, and frequently with Anglosaxon last names.
    ("Mass shooting" and "serial killer" here refers to more than 9 homicides. The higher the threshold you choose, the more likely that they are mostly white Christians with an Anglosaxon last name. The lower the threshold, the more likely that there are also other groups. Racists lower the threshold of "mass shooting" to two victims so that most killers are from poor violent neighborhoods, i.e. blacks; but most of us think that a "mass" shooting is not a shooting of two people; two is not a "mass").
    These are routinely classified as cases of "mental illness" but why is it that this kind of mental illness seems to affect mainly white Christian men born in the USA? Note that articles on these mass shootings often omit the name of the shooter (they normally only mention the place and date), whereas any article on an Islamic terrorist attack would include the names of the attackers (to emphasize their religion and origin).
    What was Timothy McVeigh, the author of the biggest terrorist attack in the USA carried out by a citizen (Oklahoma City, 1995)? A white Anglosaxon Christian. What about the soldiers who committed atrocities in Vietnam, like William Calley (My Lai massacre, 1968), and Iraq, like the five who gang-raped a little Iraqi girl and then murdered her and her entire family (Mahmudiyah massacre, 2006)? White Christian men. What were the militia members who in 2020 were planning to kidnap and overthrow Michigan's governor Gretchen Whitmer? White Christian men.
    What do televangelist Jimmy Swaggart, evangelical minister Ted Haggard, Republican senator Larry Craig and Republican senator David Vitter, all of them involved in prostitution or sex molestation scandals? They are white Anglosaxon Christians. And so is Republican politician Roy Moore, accused in 2017 of molesting underage girls, and so is Jim Zeigler, the state auditor of Alabama, who justified Moore's behavior by noting that the Virgin Mary was a teenager when approached by Joseph the adult carpenter (thus revealing that the story of Jesus can be used as propaganda for child molestation).
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And @Nathan TRUTH!!! And as they say "Truth hurts". Some people don't want to face what's right in front of their eyes and/or have gotten so used to the status quo that they don't take actions to help change things. Thank you both for your replies. BTW Win, I understand why you went into detail as you did.

Re the OP: No wonder the United States is on the travel advisory list of countries to be wary of! This is a terrible tragedy for the families and friends of the victims as well as for the community. It also adds to the apprehension that we can be anywhere at any time and become victims. Where did that child get his weapon? What set him off? Will they try him as an adult? There's too much killing going on. It's gotten to be just too much!! :cry:
 
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CarolfromTX said:
There have been over 500 homicides in Chicago this year. if that’s not a mass shooting, I dont know what is.
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Chicago 2022 population:8,901,000 448 homicides= 0.000050337 per capita
Interesting, by contrast there was 279 homicides in Houston in 2022 total population in 2022: 6603000 = 0.000042254 per capita.
Note that in both cases these homicides were not all done in the same incident, so labeling either as a 'mass shooting" would be misguided.
 
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CarolfromTX said:
There have been over 500 homicides in Chicago this year. if that’s not a mass shooting, I dont know what is.
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Yes, you apparently don't know what it is. 500+ homicides are not a mass shooting. But that wasn't your point, was it?

"Mass Shootings are, for the most part an American phenomenon. While they are generally grouped together as one type of incident, they are several with the foundation definition being that they have a minimum of four victims shot, either injured or killed, not including any shooter who may also have been killed or injured in the incident."

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
 
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