Are we flogging a dead horse?

[papa tiger]

We're doomed, the sky is falling, quick plug the Dam with your thumb, Open the flood gates, did you see that?

I'm gonna guess the next great sport will be Disc Golf. You can play it and stay in the shade.

 

[Packerjohn]

Yep, the news media are all about entertainment these days because that's what the majority wants. Something tantalizing, exciting (even if in a negative way), something that happens to others ... something you can forget once you've had your fill of the subject.

@Packerjohn: All of your issues are mine as well but they burden us, make us feel helpless, and so, sadly, we do the only thing we can think of, act like ostriches!

I agree with your statement. Take this brand new shiny media blitz about the Hamas/Israel War. I see the titles but I do not read any of the articles. It's not that I'm not sorry for those poor buggers there. I have spent time in Israel and worked in a Kibbutz years ago. I have traveled extensively in Israel and spent a lot of time in Jerusalem. However, like the trouble in Ukraine, there is nothing I can do. I just live my life as best as I can.

Tomorrow I am going to get my flu shot. I expect to travel to Fargo, North Dakota next week and I expect to fly to Washington, DC at the beginning of November. So, I have a life and pretty darn good life. Sorry about the wars and the killings but hey, I have only 1 life and I want to live it as best as I can. There is nothing I can do about wars here and wars there, no matter how the media floods my attention.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Somebody tried to flog me, but I spoke right up and said I am alive

 

[VaughanJB]

However, like the trouble in Ukraine, there is nothing I can do. I just live my life as best as I can.

This is a fascinating subject. I've lived this. It seems to me, in a world driven by Social Media, people feel a need to make a hard stand on each and every topic. Often lazily divided in to a left/right divide which is puerile and empty. Wars abroad without study of the history (other than a Google search or a Social Media post). Hotel reservations taken from vets (which wasn't even true). The government having, gosh, secrets. What is taught in our schools, and candy bars are getting smaller for the same money due to the economy. Whatever the topic, a heck of a lot of people think they have to feel strongly about one side or the other.

As I've stated elsewhere, I got rid of my TV years ago. It wasn't a big statement, it was a personal choice. In large part it was because I realized that much of what I had been watching - filling my head with - was completely irrelevant. It was manufactured content designed to get me to watch. That was its sole purpose. Worse, the only person responsible for letting this trash into my head and life was me, and I benefited nothing from it!

I now know that I don't need to be informed on every topic. I don't need to have a stance on every topic. No-one will notice if I care about something or not, even when others think I should. Part of being an individual is filtering what comes into your purview, and I was letting way too much in. This is magnified many times on Social Media where as long as something gets a lot of attention, whether it's true or not is irrelevant. The cherry on top? You never have to apologize if you're wrong either.

So don't feel bad about the Ukraine issue, or the war in the middle east. Empty support is flaccid posturing. I have an opinion about the war, and I choose to keep it to myself. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

 

[Sippican]

Funny, you mention women in Canada's Parliament in one breath, but in the other breath, sexism.
Well, isn't that sexism? Putting a woman as a token member because of her sex is sexism.

And whats all this complaining about billionaires?
Don't people realize that these are the people that provide millions of people with livelihoods, provide for families to buy homes, cars, feed their children. What makes you think these successful people are sitting on their piles of money and doing nothing with it?

Successful 1% provide billions to charities to help people around the world.
Successful people are helping humanity every hour of every day, and yet in a very narrow view, you feel they are not doing enough?
Yes, there are people flooding the streets, rampant vandalism. It can all be traced back to a weak justice system and open borders from a certain administration. You blame successful people, but not the politicians?

What do you think 'billionaires' would do if a 'witch hunt' started against them? They would leave, plain and simple.
They would go to one of their other homes in another country, where many already have dual citizenship and take their money with them.

Don't be hating on successful people because others haven't attained their level of success.

 

[Mr. Ed]

How The Loss Of U.S. Psychiatric Hospitals Led To A Mental Health Crisis.


I have a mental illness and I worked in the field for 18 years as a peer specialist. I found most people I talked to and encouraged to seek employment and/or continued education were not interested based on in my opinion, venturing from their comfort zone, no matter how discomforting their life really was. They were complacent with themselves and preferred to stay that way because change would be upsetting.

Many people living with mental illness have given up on life and/or themselves waiting to die and be done with it at, it's the way I feel most of the time. However church and government consider life worthy enough to pass laws against self-imposed or assisted dying. This has nothing to do with quality of life or going to hell, the elderly are business ventures for healthcare, insurance companies, hospitals, assisted living homes, medicine, taxes, revenue the list goes on because old people earned their place in life while newbies take and the elderly give because they can't take it with them.

The blame is not one thing but humanity is at fault.

 

[dilettante]

I just heard a report that California cities have a public drinking epidemic. So bad that restaurants post signs about a vomiting fee and Uber drivers are putting plastic sheets over back seats of cars.

Chicago was also mentioned, so maybe it's a population density issue.

 

[Murrmurr]

Are we flogging a dead horse?​

Well, we're on page 3 of this thread, so I'd say, yes, definitely.

 

[Murrmurr]

I just heard a report that California cities have a public drinking epidemic. So bad that restaurants post signs about a vomiting fee and Uber drivers are putting plastic sheets over back seats of cars.

Chicago was also mentioned, so maybe it's a population density issue.

That's weird, because this is not new.

Despite all the Vegan talk and peaceful meditation stuff, Californians love their alcohol beverages.

There are 691 beer breweries in California, making it the state with the most breweries in the entire US.

There are over 10,500 Mixology Schools in Los Angeles County alone. That's where you learn to mix bar drinks and obtain a license to serve them.

Over 100 of the nation's most popular mixed drinks and cocktails have been invented by a Californian.
(that one was extremely hard to verify, so I could be wrong, but I suspect not)

 

[Gardenlover]

...What do you think 'billionaires' would do if a 'witch hunt' started against them? They would leave, plain and simple.
They would go to one of their other homes in another country, where many already have dual citizenship and take their money with them.

Don't be hating on successful people because others haven't attained their level of success.

Reminds me of the book, "Atlas Shrugged."

 

[RadishRose]

Does anyone know what this thread is about?

 

[Murrmurr]

Does anyone know what this thread is about?

People crusading over problems that were already solved. Like equality for women, for example.

 

[VaughanJB]

People crusading over problems that were already solved. Like equality for women, for example.

Do you believe women are equal to men in every sphere of life? Id' say, things are improved, even improved a lot, but total equality? No.

 

[Murrmurr]

Do you believe women are equal to men in every sphere of life? Id' say, things are improved, even improved a lot, but total equality? No.

It is illegal to discriminate against anyone in any way under any circumstances based on gender.

Equal rights laws were worded to specifically include gender, were adopted by Congress in 1972, and the Constitution was immediately amended to ensure they are protected.

So, yes, I do believe women have the same rights as men.

But what do you mean by "equality in every sphere of life" ?

 

[VaughanJB]

It is illegal to discriminate against anyone in any way under any circumstances based on gender.

Equal rights laws were worded to specifically include gender, were adopted by Congress in 1972, and the Constitution was immediately amended to ensure they are protected.

So, yes, I do believe women have the same rights as men.

But what do you mean by "equality in every sphere of life" ?

No offense intended, but I think you're confusing laws with actual equality. Laws only matter if they are upheld, and strenuously followed. They're not, imo. 10% of Fortune 500 companies have a female CEO. This is not, IMO, entirely down to talent. Laws are a step in the right direction, but go not nearly far enough. It's not about what people are supposed to do, it's about what they actually do.

 

[Murrmurr]

No offense intended, but I think you're confusing laws with actual equality. Laws only matter if they are upheld, and strenuously followed. They're not, imo. 10% of Fortune 500 companies have a female CEO. This is not, IMO, entirely down to talent. Laws are a step in the right direction, but go not nearly far enough. It's not about what people are supposed to do, it's about what they actually do.

What do you suggest?

What exactly are people doing that is wrong? And if not with laws, how do we control them?

Why do only 10% of the Fortune 500 companies have female CEOs? I understand that, in your opinion, it isn't about talent....so what, in your opinion, are the real reasons?

 

[VaughanJB]

What do you suggest?

What exactly are people doing that is wrong? And if not with laws, how do we control them?

Why do only 10% of the Fortune 500 companies have female CEOs? I understand that, in your opinion, it isn't about talent....so what, in your opinion, are the real reasons?

Of course, laws play a part. But like all laws, unless it is enforced, monitored, and applied, then it's worthless.

As for CEO's, it's a glass ceiling created, primarily, by the men who have been in power over the decades. It is also practiced by such men. The same men who would be expected to police it. I'm not entirely sure how this can be denied, but I'd like to know the counter.

 

[Sippican]

No offense intended, but I think you're confusing laws with actual equality. Laws only matter if they are upheld, and strenuously followed. They're not, imo. 10% of Fortune 500 companies have a female CEO. This is not, IMO, entirely down to talent. Laws are a step in the right direction, but go not nearly far enough. It's not about what people are supposed to do, it's about what they actually do.

I think measuring 'equality' is not something that can be written in law.
Men and women cannot be equal.
Men and men are not equal
Women and women are not equal
Makes no sense.
A man working for another man, or woman working for another woman, Are they equal?...no, one brings different skills to the table.
I'm not equal to another man. He may be smarter than me, stronger than me, so how can we be equal?

If men and women were equal, why don't we have more women bricklayers, construction workers, Laborers, men work longer hours, more dangerous jobs, there are more homeless men, more men commit suicide, more men are in jail, why are the genders not equal in that sense?

Or are we only talking about CEO, white collar, office jobs?
See if women want equality, they can't pick and choose what areas they want equality, while leaving other characteristics out that are more difficult.
Equality of opportunity is fine and should be available, but equality of outcome, thats a different story. That is where same genders, and opposite genders are not equal, nor they should be.

'Equality', can't just be a word that everything fits in the same bucket.

 

[Murrmurr]

Of course, laws play a part. But like all laws, unless it is enforced, monitored, and applied, then it's worthless.

As for CEO's, it's a glass ceiling created, primarily, by the men who have been in power over the decades. It is also practiced by such men. The same men who would be expected to police it. I'm not entirely sure how this can be denied, but I'd like to know the counter.

(to your first paragraph) This is why it irks me to no end when women complain about discrimination but don't take steps to have the offender prosecuted. All you have to do is file a complaint with a court. And there are dozens of organizations that offer free legal advice and cover the cost of all the necessary filings (for women only, though).

As for the CEO issue, a financial analyst -who is female, btw...Indra Nooyi- said the problem starts in middle-management, the level within a corporation where future CEOs come from. These employees are in the 25-35 age range. That's the age range when women in middle-management start dropping off. They quit, they start missing days, calling in sick a lot, asking for personal time off, etc., and that's usually because they're pregnant or recently had a baby.

Taking time off work when you work at a Fortune (or S&P) 500 company is an absolute no-no. Their executives live for the company. Their workdays are really long, they spend late nights, weekends, and every calendar holiday working. They work at home and they work at work. Their families take second priority to their jobs.

It takes a special woman to dedicate her life to a Fortune 500 company. Like maybe 10 or 15% when compared to men.

 

[VaughanJB]

I think measuring 'equality' is not something that can be written in law.
Men and women cannot be equal.
Men and men are not equal
Women and women are not equal
Makes no sense.
A man working for another man, or woman working for another woman, Are they equal?...no, one brings different skills to the table.
I'm not equal to another man. He may be smarter than me, stronger than me, so how can we be equal?

If men and women were equal, why don't we have more women bricklayers, construction workers, Laborers, men work longer hours, more dangerous jobs, there are more homeless men, more men commit suicide, more men are in jail, why are the genders not equal in that sense?

Or are we only talking about CEO, white collar, office jobs?
See if women want equality, they can't pick and choose what areas they want equality, while leaving other characteristics out that are more difficult.
Equality of opportunity is fine and should be available, but equality of outcome, thats a different story. That is where same genders, and opposite genders are not equal, nor they should be.

'Equality', can't just be a word that everything fits in the same bucket.

Yeah, I totally disagree with this.

You're seemingly taking a very broad definition of equality, and to suggest that to want equality means there must be a strict 50-50 divide in everything. This is not the case. For example, as a male, you ever tried giving birth?

Everything is not equal, and the goal of equality isn't a 50-50 divide. It's about equal opportunity. If they interviewed the top men, and the top women, for a CEO job in Fortune 500 companies, and the best candidate, based on the very same measurements, was that women should get all CEO jobs - then that's equality.

Think of it this way. I'm heterosexual. I could have a partner that was male or female. I would, in 100% of cases, choose female. In this case, there is no equality. I am biased, and everything about me means I'll always choose a woman. Now think of that in corporate terms.

Bricklaying etc - I'd suggest the reason there are less women, is in large part due to far less women applying for such jobs.

 

[VaughanJB]

(to your first paragraph) This is why it irks me to no end when women complain about discrimination but don't take steps to have the offender prosecuted. All you have to do is file a complaint with a court. And there are dozens of organizations that offer free legal advice and cover the cost of all the necessary filings (for women only, though).

Legal cases cost both in terms of money and reputation. If you're known as someone who litigates over such things, good luck ever getting another opportunity. Free legal advise is not the same as free legal costs. And I'm not so sure there are truly dozens that do all that work for free.

As for the CEO issue, a financial analyst -who is female, btw...Indra Nooyi- said the problem starts in middle-management, the level within a corporation where future CEOs come from. These employees are in the 25-35 age range. That's the age range when women in middle-management start dropping off. They quit, they start missing days, calling in sick a lot, asking for personal time off, etc., and that's usually because they're pregnant or recently had a baby.

Laws around babies, etc., are much changed. Laws to accommodate such things are in place. In the past, sure, women knew which side of the bread was buttered. When we start banning abortion, but accept having a baby is a brake for a professional lives, we're in trouble, imo.

It takes a special woman to dedicate her life to a Fortune 500 company. Like maybe 10 or 15% when compared to men.

Totally disagree with this in principle. The system has created an environment where it may be true, but that's the issue - the system is geared to create the problem, and not solve it.

I was never a CEO, but I was a director for a multi-national with complete control over European operations in my specific area. An equally competent woman could have done as good a job.

 

[Murrmurr]

. An equally competent woman could have done as good a job.

Sure, if she had the time.

When you're talking about Fortune 500 companies, you're talking about companies that want the people to show up. No decision is made by one person, but every person is required to show up. If they don't, male or female, they're gone. (well, unless they're someone's close relative, or they have an IN with a competitor, or whatever)

I really don't understand your "legal argument" - I don't quite understand what you're saying. But there are indeed a dozen or so organizations, at least one in most states, that will assist women in every way to bring charges against an employer, or whomever, who discriminated against her based on her gender.

The WOW Foundation probably has a list. That's where I'd start, anyway, if I was a woman in that situation.

 

[VaughanJB]

Sure, if she had the time.

When you're talking about Fortune 500 companies, you're talking about companies that want the people to show up. No decision is made by one person, but every person is required to show up. If they don't, male or female, they're gone. (well, unless they're someone's close relative, or they have an IN with a competitor, or whatever)

I really don't understand your "legal argument" - I don't quite understand what you're saying. But there are indeed a dozen or so organizations, at least one in most states, that will assist women in every way to bring charges against an employer, or whomever, who discriminated against her based on her gender.

The WOW Foundation probably has a list. That's where I'd start, anyway, if I was a woman in that situation.

I mentioned fortune 500 companies only as a representative (and admittedly, easy) target. I could have mentioned, based on what I could find, the 75% of Gorcery store managers are men. I wasn't trying to isolate Fortune 500 companies.

The legal thing.... I just think we see things differently there. If every case of discrimination got to court, there'd be no time for anything else.

 

[Murrmurr]

The legal thing.... I just think we see things differently there. If every case of discrimination got to court, there'd be no time for anything else.

That's not true. I'm sure it would result in no more discrimination. Probably pretty quickly.

But I think we're flogging a dead horse here.

 

[Sippican]

Yeah, I totally disagree with this.

You're seemingly taking a very broad definition of equality, and to suggest that to want equality means there must be a strict 50-50 divide in everything. This is not the case. For example, as a male, you ever tried giving birth?

Everything is not equal, and the goal of equality isn't a 50-50 divide. It's about equal opportunity. If they interviewed the top men, and the top women, for a CEO job in Fortune 500 companies, and the best candidate, based on the very same measurements, was that women should get all CEO jobs - then that's equality.

Think of it this way. I'm heterosexual. I could have a partner that was male or female. I would, in 100% of cases, choose female. In this case, there is no equality. I am biased, and everything about me means I'll always choose a woman. Now think of that in corporate terms.

Bricklaying etc - I'd suggest the reason there are less women, is in large part due to far less women applying for such jobs.

"It's about equal opportunity"
well, ya, thats what I said.