As we all (?) head into Third World living experiences - - - -

treeguy64

Hari Om, y'all!
Location
Austin, TX.
I am not sure how many of you are active travelers, these days, nor do I know how many of you traveled far and wide as younger folks. I traveled to many countries, hiked around the Arctic Circle, had great fun, in general. In so-called "Third World Countries," I learned not to expect the comforts of home, learned to be patient, learned to expect screw-ups. I could rough it, and be fine while doing so.

The problem I have, now, is that where I live, in the US, it seems to be heading into Third World status, in many ways. What is unbelievable, to me, is that now, even with huge advances in computer technology, even with the internet, there seems to be MORE screwing up, instead of less.

To wit: A good while back, I made a reservation with a huge hotel chain. I had to speak with the hotel directly, because I had a few vouchers for free nights. I received a reservation number, from the front desk person I spoke with, and that was that, or so I thought. As we get ready to head out, next week, I decided I better re-confirm my reservation. I was feeling weird, because I never got an email notification about the reservation. Sure as heck, the chain had no record of my reservation! So, I called, tonight, and had to start all over, again. For both calls, I could barely understand the front desk gals, as both had very heavy accents, from two different countries. I will hold my breath as I approach the front desk, in person, next week. Dollars to doughnuts, they won't have my reservation in the system.

My point, in the above, is that things get so complicated, these days, and rarely are those things in your favor. The hotel incident is one of, possibly, hundreds I've gone through over the last twenty years, or so. In department stores, coupons won't go through. In restaurants, your order gets messed up in strange ways. On the streets, the homeless are constantly asking for handouts. The air and water get worse, traffic is constantly jammed, electricity goes out during storm and wind events, etc., etc., etc.

I honestly can't remember this type of stuff happening, with such great frequency, during my 20's-50's. Are we reaching a critical point, now? Will all places on Earth move, ever more rapidly, into the chaos of modern living?

Am I preaching to the choir, here, or am I a lone voice in the wilderness?
 

I’ve done a fair amount of travelling but not too much abroad travelling. I’m famous for messing things up so if there are mistakes to be made I’ll make them. Being a bit computer challenged I often go around in circles. Stuff is more complicated than it used to be I think. Before you spoke to people over the phone. Now you speak to a computer or make reservations online. Lots of things can go wrong.
 
I've traveled very little (other than here in the states and now, semi-disabled and poor I won't be starting out. I guess some of you younger folks still see the world. I wish you well.
 
Am I preaching to the choir, here, or am I a lone voice in the wilderness?

Not lone

It's one of many reasons I live in the wilderness


Yeah, life is harder

But simpler

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Perhaps I just notice it more as I get older, but it seems to me that things Are going downhill, in many respects. There is an increase in Income Disparity....with many of the "middle class" taking on huge amounts of personal debt to maintain their lifestyles. Infrastructure is not keeping up with needs....roads, bridges, electrical grid, etc., are all being stretched beyond their limits. The combination of increased automation, coupled with unchecked population growth, is putting more and more people into poverty, every year. Crime and pollution in the cities is making for large areas that are quite undesirable. Like Gary O, we abandoned the city several years ago, and life in our area is still quite nice, but it only takes watching the TV news, and making brief visits to the city to see that we are lucky.
 
" For both calls, I could barely understand the front desk gals, as both had very heavy accents, from two different countries."

There's your clue right there. To save money this "huge hotel chain'' probably uses third world country service reps. You can't understand them and they probably don't understand you. I read why you had to speak to them on the phone and you had no other choice, but I rather make the reservation online, then I have email proof of what was asked for and what was promised. I suggest you email them and ask for a written confirmation of your reservation before you go.
 
We have a huge phone company that does this. They hire out third world country service reps. You don’t understand them and they don’t understand you. If you complain about them you are considered some type of racist. It doesn’t work.
 
Like Gary O, we abandoned the city several years ago, and life in our area is still quite nice, but it only takes watching the TV news, and making brief visits to the city to see that we are lucky.
We moved to the country years ago also but nobody does wilderness quite like Gary here.
 
We have a huge phone company that does this. They hire out third world country service reps. You don’t understand them and they don’t understand you. If you complain about them you are considered some type of racist. It doesn’t work.

I do not believe it is the least bit racist to expect customer service people who are supposed to provide a service in a given area to be proficient in the language mostly used in that area. If you are going to do business in a place, you need to be able to communicate with your customers in that place.
 
I get where you're coming from, I do. Maybe it's your semantics, or perhaps it's just that I see this, what you're saying, from a completely different perspective.

A third world country is defined as an underdeveloped, or developing country. We aren't that. I think the problem is more that we are becoming way OVER-developed. Our ever-increasing dependence on technology is resulting in less actual competence in areas requiring human interaction. As long as a machine can (theoretically) track and record our reservations then what need is there for actual customer service? When the "service" becomes entirely automated, computer generated, then personal interaction becomes redundant. And then when that happens, human problem solving, logical thinking, troubleshooting end up being skills that are quickly becoming obsolete.

I was in a tiny little mom and pop store a few weeks back, when Ron and I were on one of our adventures. Got to the counter, ready to pay for my purchase. The cash register looked like it was out of the stone age, but I guess it was still automated to some degree because the young person at the desk said he couldn't run my card. I said no worries I can pay cash. I gave him a $20 for a $7.29 purchase. He was completely stymied trying to figure out how much change to give me. He was pulling out his phone to access the calculator on it so he could do the basic subtraction, and I said let me show you something. Stood there and showed him how to make change without ever having to do a math equation. $7.29? OK so give me a penny, then two dimes, then two quarters, two ones, and then a ten. He was blown away!!! He checked it on his calculator.

"How did you do that????"

Jeez. As a teen working at my local Woolworths, all those years ago, making change was as basic as always being polite to the customer.
 
I get where you're coming from, I do. Maybe it's your semantics, or perhaps it's just that I see this, what you're saying, from a completely different perspective.

A third world country is defined as an underdeveloped, or developing country. We aren't that. I think the problem is more that we are becoming way OVER-developed. Our ever-increasing dependence on technology is resulting in less actual competence in areas requiring human interaction. As long as a machine can (theoretically) track and record our reservations then what need is there for actual customer service? When the "service" becomes entirely automated, computer generated, then personal interaction becomes redundant. And then when that happens, human problem solving, logical thinking, troubleshooting end up being skills that are quickly becoming obsolete.

I was in a tiny little mom and pop store a few weeks back, when Ron and I were on one of our adventures. Got to the counter, ready to pay for my purchase. The cash register looked like it was out of the stone age, but I guess it was still automated to some degree because the young person at the desk said he couldn't run my card. I said no worries I can pay cash. I gave him a $20 for a $7.29 purchase. He was completely stymied trying to figure out how much change to give me. He was pulling out his phone to access the calculator on it so he could do the basic subtraction, and I said let me show you something. Stood there and showed him how to make change without ever having to do a math equation. $7.29? OK so give me a penny, then two dimes, then two quarters, two ones, and then a ten. He was blown away!!! He checked it on his calculator.

"How did you do that????"

Jeez. As a teen working at my local Woolworths, all those years ago, making change was as basic as always being polite to the customer.

No semantics issues, with me. If you reread my first post, you'll find that I wrote that we're heading into a situation that feels like Third World experiences I've had. We seem to be heading into Third World status, in many ways. I'm saying the US is feeling more Third World, to me. Our homeless situation, our bad air, bad water, swelling population with all of the problems that come with it, have nothing to do with the high tech issue you raised, in your reply, and which I agree with.

To address other posts, above: As far as being unable to understand reps I dealt with in my hotel incident, it should be noted these were people who actually work the front desk in the hotel. They are not in other countries. Again, this adds to a Third World feel where broken English may as well be Greek, for those trying to interface with people speaking it. Yes, other languages are spoken all over the world. However, in most metropolitan centers of major countries, I had very little trouble understanding folks who spoke English to me. Only in poorer countries did I find terribly fractured English. I don't mean to imply that I'm coming at this from an "Ugly American" angle. I know that poorer countries lack the education system to teach English, in many cases, and that certainly shouldn't be a high priority if it's only to accommodate English speaking tourists. However, once again, if I can't understand people living in this country, people who regularly deal with the public, then, yeah, I feel like I'm in a Third World country, again.
 
Treeguy, you don't even have to travel. I had a similar experience making a hotel reservation right in your own fair city (which I otherwise liked a lot).

At this stage of my life, I don't like climbing in and out of slippery bathtubs, so I asked for a room with a stall shower, or safety bars on the walls over the bathtub, etc. When I got there (along with many others in our party, it was for my granddaughter's wedding), there was no record of this request, which I had made by phone. They did me a BIG favor and gave me a room that was handicapped-accessible; it had a walk-in shower, but there was only one problem: no hot water in the shower. It was ice cold!

I complained about it to the heavily-accented clerk at the front desk the next day. She apologized and said they would look into it right away, and moved me to a regular room (I managed to negotiate the bathtub without breaking my neck). A half hour after I left that room with the cold water, they moved someone else from my party into that same room, as she also needed a walk-in shower. So much for "fixing it right away."

Definitely third world stuff.
 
I've seen America having its last hurrah in full force throughout my life. Hopefully it's just bad habits dying hard.
 
One of the problems with living a long time is we can compare what was to what is now. Like tree guy we traveled experiencing conditions that made us happy we lived in America. But over time like tree guy I'm seeing the deterioration in the areas he mentioned. I think technology and education was the beginning of decline


Albert Einstein once said, “Education is not the learning of facts, but the training of the mind to think.”




Changes in society like we've become a nation of 2 working parents, or one working parent who is divorced. Schools became daycare, kids became latchkey. Computers, cell phones, divorce rates, etc, etc. Population increase translates to every year schools have a student to teacher ratio increase. Toss in teachers leaving the profession and the problem increases.


Enter employers looking for cheaper labor for manufacturing, service jobs like the one mentioned for reservations.


The government in in 2009 in all it's wisdom began cash for cars. Boosted the economy for a little while, but made China really happy to get the cars that were scrapped
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Allowance_Rebate_System


How that relates is an example of good intentions making it possible for good paying American manufacturing jobs to be lost. Replacing manufacturing jobs with service jobs done by offshore employees begins the decline I think I am seeing now.


There is no single event that can be pointed to but IMO education as a problem is a good start. I think that confirms the point Ronni was making
 
I think we are talking about different colored horses here.

My comment wasn't about education or third world countries. My comment was simply that it aggravates the heck out of me that big American companies outsource their customer service to other countries and hire people who cannot communicate competently with the big American companies' customers in the US. I don't care if said employees are in so-called third-world countries or in penthouses on the French Riviera.

Maybe I posted on the wrong thread or something.
 
To Ronni's point & education. A snippet from an article
Quote
"The report bases its conclusions about achievement mainly on international test scores released last December. They show that compared with their peers in Europe, Asia and elsewhere, 15-year-olds in the United States are below average in applying math skills to real-life tasks."


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-slips-in-rankings/


My post was about what I believe is part of the decline. As for calling and getting someone not very capable of speaking english. Think about the wage & benefit difference.


For fun think about someone from a foreign country speaking in limited english calling and getting a person answering in ebonics. Asking for the registration desk.


http://joel.net/EBONICS/Translator


But there is help for math challenged. Pictures & calculations help math challenged employees.


https://careertrend.com/how-4811195-work-fast-food-cash-register.html


Heck you can even find out what the younger generation is texting about with this texting dictionary.
https://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/textmessageabbreviations.asp


I even know what "marke numero uno" means when calling almost anywhere. Math, communication skills and technology IMO are contributing to the decline I believe is taking place in America.
 


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