At least 13 dead, and many missing in TX flooding

Here's what I want to know. Who thought it was a good idea to put a camp for children in an area known as Flash Flood Alley?!! It is listed as one of three areas in the country most likely to flood. Then by all accounts officials chose to put cost above lives for years when it came to installing an adequate warning system. When they finally cleared the way for it to be done, the project didn't happen soon enough to save all those lives. Just saw that the death toll is now 120.
 

OneEyedDiva said:
Here's what I want to know. Who thought it was a good idea to put a camp for children in an area known as Flash Flood Alley?!! It is listed as one of three areas in the country most likely to flood. Then by all accounts officials chose to put cost above lives for years when it came to installing an adequate warning system. When they finally cleared the way for it to be done, the project didn't happen soon enough to save all those lives. Just saw that the death toll is now 120.
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Since you asked:

NYT - "Many of those cabins were built in designated flood zones, records show, and some were so close to the river’s edge that they were considered part of the river’s “floodway” — a corridor of such extreme hazard that many states and counties ban or severely restrict construction there. Texas’ Kerr County, where Camp Mystic is located, adopted its own stringent floodway rules, which required that construction in such areas be limited in order to better “protect human life.”

But six years ago, when Camp Mystic pursued a $5 million construction project to overhaul and expand its private, for-profit Christian camp, no effort was made to relocate the most at-risk cabins away from the river. Instead, local officials authorized the construction of new cabins in another part of the camp — including some that also lie in a designated flood-risk area. The older ones along the river remained in use."

Cabins in floodway
 
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againstthegrain said:
Since you see the map you're in the article, keep scrolling down.
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The map kind of tells its own story. OED is correct. Why would anyone put a church camp so close to a river that has a reputation for flooding? Those kids had very little chance to get out if the way. It’s my belief from what I have read that the early warnings were given a few hours after midnight. Is that correct?

I can’t even begin to imagine how the parents are going to get through this. I wish I could do more than just send money, but there’s not much, if anything any of us can do, except pray to give the parents strength and guidance to help during their period of grief. I hope they are able to find some peace with the support of their family, friends and church.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Here's what I want to know. Who thought it was a good idea to put a camp for children in an area known as Flash Flood Alley?!! It is listed as one of three areas in the country most likely to flood. Then by all accounts officials chose to put cost above lives for years when it came to installing an adequate warning system. When they finally cleared the way for it to be done, the project didn't happen soon enough to save all those lives. Just saw that the death toll is now 120.
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Yes, this is troubling. There were many people who were responsible. What about the people giving the permits? Weren't there any codes about building close to the water? Besides the owner, what about the parents? If I were a parent and knew about the flooding and saw how close the cabin was to the water, I would have balked and said something. There were hundreds of people for many years that were aware of this, but no one did anything.
 
oldman said:
The map kind of tells its own story. OED is correct. Why would anyone put a church camp so close to a river that has a reputation for flooding? Those kids had very little chance to get out if the way. It’s my belief from what I have read that the early warnings were given a few hours after midnight. Is that correct?

I can’t even begin to imagine how the parents are going to get through this. I wish I could do more than just send money, but there’s not much, if anything any of us can do, except pray to give the parents strength and guidance to help during their period of grief. I hope they are able to find some peace with the support of their family, friends and church.
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There was a delay after the NWS made it's 1am warnings of about 4 hours before that warning was relayed by local officials to the population. In addition Camp Mystic was "tech free" IOW no cell phones for counselors and campers negating any warnings transmitted by cell phone.

A disaster of this magnitude is never going to be boiled down to one mistake, one misjudgment, poor planning etc, it's a series of events compounding topped off by the incredible force of the river water at well over flood stage in the dark of the middle of the night.

I don't think it's very respectful of the dead to begin sweeping the errors under rug as has been happening, like they did at Uvalde where those senseless deaths led to no change. When one hears "it's not the time" that's just delay and obfuscation giving time for those involved to get their story straight and cover their own azzes.

I was a first responder, I know chit happens in the "fog of war" - let's hope the deaths of roughly 300 people will lead to improvements in safety not only for this flood prone area, but to flood prone areas around the country.
 
againstthegrain said:
There was a delay after the NWS made it's 1am warnings of about 4 hours before that warning was relayed by local officials to the population. In addition Camp Mystic was "tech free" IOW no cell phones for counselors and campers negating any warnings transmitted by cell phone.

A disaster of this magnitude is never going to be boiled down to one mistake, one misjudgment, poor planning etc, it's a series of events compounding topped off by the incredible force of the river water at well over flood stage in the dark of the middle of the night.

I don't think it's very respectful of the dead to begin sweeping the errors under rug as has been happening, like they did at Uvalde where those senseless deaths led to no change. When one hears "it's not the time" that's just delay and obfuscation giving time for those involved to get their story straight and cover their own azzes.

I was a first responder, I know chit happens in the "fog of war" - let's hope the deaths of roughly 300 people will lead to improvements in safety for this flood prone area, but to others around the country.
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The map shows the where but does not answer the question who thought it was a good idea to do this, nor why would those in charge allow it. @palides2021 brought up good points. More than one or two people are responsible for this tragedy.
 
NYT - "In the years before floodwaters killed more than two dozen people at Camp Mystic in Texas, regulators approved a series of appeals that removed many of the camp’s buildings from official federal flood zones, records show.

Flood maps developed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency in 2011 had placed much of the camp within a 100-year flood zone, an area considered to be at high risk of flooding. Camp Mystic successfully challenged those designations, which would limit renovation projects and require flood insurance, citing elevation calculations of a series of buildings that allowed them to be exempted from the federal restrictions."
 
In 2021 the federal government gave the local area money to install a flood warning system. However, there was some discretion in how they could spend the money and the local authorities decided to hire more policeman and give all the policeman raises instead. I don’t understand that decision at all and find it heartbreaking.
 
I've been awake since 2am thinking about this. I wish I had come out here and read @againstthegrain 's posts so I could have had a place to direct my anger.

We can never prepare completely for mother nature's surprises, particularly now with global warming making her even more unpredictable, but clearly the camp's owners knew they had cabins in dangerous areas and did not remove them, and then went on to build more cabins in places that were at high risk of flooding. The cabins that were practically in the river were the ones they placed their youngest most vulnerable children in. I think the key is in the words "private, for-profit" camp.

I believe the children are in a better place now, but I can't imagine how the parents are going to carry on with life knowing their children died in terror, far away from their homes, in an unsafe place they had sent them to.
 
Teacher Terry said:
In 2021 the federal government gave the local area money to install a flood warning system. However, there was some discretion in how they could spend the money and the local authorities decided to hire more policeman and give all the policeman raises instead. I don’t understand that decision at all and find it heartbreaking.
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Post #134 has a link to an article about the failures to get a warning system in place, it doesn't mention the 2021 grant you mention here. Do you have a source so I can get a look at that please?

I don't doubt you for a second just trying to stay up w all the info I can.
 
againstthegrain said:
Post #134 has a link to an article about the failures to get a warning system in place, it doesn't mention the 2021 grant you mention here. Do you have a source so I can get a look at that please?

I don't doubt you for a second just trying to stay up w all the info I can.
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I subscribe to the New York Times and I read it in there a few days ago. I delete them after I read them. I’m hoping you can find it.
 
againstthegrain said:
it doesn't mention the 2021 grant you mention here. Do you have a source so I can get a look at that please?
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I found this government spending website that describes the grant to Kerr County:

USAspending.gov

and also this is what Google says:
In 2021, Kerr County, Texas, was awarded a $10.2 million grant from the federal government as part of the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA). These funds were intended to assist local governments impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic and could be used for various purposes, including infrastructure repairs, public safety upgrades, and economic development. ​
While the county received the grant, its utilization sparked debate among residents and officials. Notably, a portion of the funds could have been used to address the county's vulnerability to flash floods, particularly along the Guadalupe River. However, facing political pressure from some conservative residents, the Kerr County Commissioners chose not to pursue a flood warning system, with some residents expressing distrust of the federal government and stating that they did not want to be "bought" by the federal government. ​
Ultimately, the county decided to allocate a significant portion of the ARPA funds, about $8 million, to upgrades for the sheriff's department and employee stipends.​
 
HoneyNut said:
I found this government spending website that describes the grant to Kerr County:

USAspending.gov

and also this is what Google says:
In 2021, Kerr County, Texas, was awarded a $10.2 million grant from the federal government as part of the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA). These funds were intended to assist local governments impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic and could be used for various purposes, including infrastructure repairs, public safety upgrades, and economic development. ​
While the county received the grant, its utilization sparked debate among residents and officials. Notably, a portion of the funds could have been used to address the county's vulnerability to flash floods, particularly along the Guadalupe River. However, facing political pressure from some conservative residents, the Kerr County Commissioners chose not to pursue a flood warning system, with some residents expressing distrust of the federal government and stating that they did not want to be "bought" by the federal government. ​
Ultimately, the county decided to allocate a significant portion of the ARPA funds, about $8 million, to upgrades for the sheriff's department and employee stipends.​
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I guess the police didn't feel they had been bought by the federal government when they accepted their wages.
 
HoneyNut said:
I found this government spending website that describes the grant to Kerr County:

USAspending.gov

and also this is what Google says:
In 2021, Kerr County, Texas, was awarded a $10.2 million grant from the federal government as part of the American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA). These funds were intended to assist local governments impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic and could be used for various purposes, including infrastructure repairs, public safety upgrades, and economic development. ​
While the county received the grant, its utilization sparked debate among residents and officials. Notably, a portion of the funds could have been used to address the county's vulnerability to flash floods, particularly along the Guadalupe River. However, facing political pressure from some conservative residents, the Kerr County Commissioners chose not to pursue a flood warning system, with some residents expressing distrust of the federal government and stating that they did not want to be "bought" by the federal government. ​
Ultimately, the county decided to allocate a significant portion of the ARPA funds, about $8 million, to upgrades for the sheriff's department and employee stipends.​
Click to expand...
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. smh
 
7/13/25 NYT - "Pounding rain and strong winds battered Central Texas on Sunday, prompting rescuers to halt search operations for victims of the deadly floods that roared through the region just over a week ago.

A slow-moving storm brought heavy precipitation and set off flood warnings in several places along the Guadalupe River, and officials and local residents were bracing for another disaster while still dealing with the aftermath of the July 4 floods. As the rain started to ease up in some parts by midafternoon, some flood warnings were downgraded to flood watches.

In the morning, Kerr County, the area hit hardest by the floods last week, was pounded by heavy rain that gradually subsided by the afternoon. The sheriff’s office there said that rescuers in the western part of the county could resume operations to search for the scores of people still missing, while efforts in the rest of the county remained suspended. Though hopes of finding the missing have diminished, state and local officials have said that search work will continue until every person is found."

This is awful for all concerned. Praying the searchers and survivors have the strength to continue on.
 

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