At your current age, does it ever seem to you that...

Sawfish said:
...increasingly, we're living in a society in which every member is expected to mutually sopport the fantasies of every other member?
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I am reading this to mean have I noticed that we have to tiptoe around so that we don't "offend" anyone at all... then absolutely yes because you could say the grass is green and offend someone. But then I hesitated to answer because of your word "fantasies"... so maybe I read it totally wrong? @Sawfish
 
CallMeKate said:
I am reading this to mean have I noticed that we have to tiptoe around so that we don't "offend" anyone at all... then absolutely yes because you could say the grass is green and offend someone. But then I hesitated to answer because of your word "fantasies"... so maybe I read it totally wrong? @Sawfish
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No, you read it as I intended it.

To me, it is seeming like we're playing a giant game of emperor's new clothing. And we all more-or-less know it, and I guess most/many of us is OK with that.

Me, I can only pretend for just so long...it wears me down.
 
Hah! This brings up a related observation!

Have you ever seen a *finite* list of social demands? E.g., when extending "basic human rights" if you ask for a full, final, complete list, do you ever think you'll get it?

I've actually asked that on other forums, and aside from initially point to the UN declaration, will usually walk it back because the interlocutor does not want to back himself into a corner.

It's a lot like the current number of genders, or acceptable pronouns.

You know, social demands have a lot in common with blackmail, in that there'll never be and end point.
 
CallMeKate said:
That about covers it. I have to tell you that when I fill out a form or something that says "how do you identify today?" I want sooooo much to say "I think I'll identify as a giraffe today and a soaring eagle tomorrow"... I mean come on!
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My supervisor has a physio appointment today.....when she booked they told her that for expediting purposes they'd send an online check-in form......."What was your assigned sex at birth?" Gender options were "Male, Female, or Other"...and, of course, "Preferred Pronouns".
 
Sawfish said:
Does it seem to you that self-identification of gender and preferred pronoun fluidity are signs of fantasy?

To me it does, but I see now that I chose the term poorly.
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what about Self Identification by Proxy... for example.. in today's papers, and not for the first time..

Like many parents on a Sunday evening, Patricia Chalmers was busy checking for unwashed sports kit in her 14-year-old daughter’s school bag when she discovered something rather perplexing.

Crumpled up inside was a letter from her teacher regarding a project. While the contents made sense, Patricia was confused by the name — it was addressed to Lex Chalmers. Her daughter’s name is Esme.

‘Instinctively, I suspected something was wrong but I waited until next morning before I phoned the school,’ says Patricia, a 49-year-old mother-of-two from Swindon.

‘Esme had been dressing differently for months, no longer wearing the skirts or dresses she’d loved when she was younger and was instead wearing baggy hoodies and jeans. She’d chopped off her long hair into a short crop. I was absolutely fine with it. She’s a teenager. She can dress how she wants.
‘But I’d also discovered she was ordering chest binders (which flatten the breasts) and I was worried she’d hurt herself.

‘I’d read up on gender identity and reassured her she could be as gender non-conforming as she wanted, but I wasn’t going to let her harm her body. She was still developing. So, I wondered if the change of name was connected to this.’

When she phoned her daughter’s co-educational state secondary school, the receptionist claimed the name change ‘must be a mistake’.

But Patricia wanted to be sure and sent an email. ‘I wanted to clarify in writing that they definitely didn’t use a different name for my daughter and that she should be referred to as Esme,’ she says.

‘They took a day to respond but eventually replied saying that in keeping with their Equality, Inclusion and Diversity policy, they had “socially transitioned” [when you refer to someone by different names and pronouns to match their gender identity] my daughter and were referring to her with the gender-neutral name Lex and they/them pronouns.

‘I burst into tears. Esme had not mentioned anything to me, but I knew social transition could harm her mental health. She is on the autistic spectrum and has suffered with anxiety and depression.

‘Changing her identity to one thing at school and being something else at home could make things even more difficult for her. I couldn’t believe the school had done this behind my back. How dare they? I was livid.’

Most parents will find it shocking that a teacher would adopt a child’s changed identity without parental consent or knowledge.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...rs-not-call-boy-reported-social-services.html
 
Sawfish said:
Does it seem to you that self-identification of gender and preferred pronoun fluidity are signs of fantasy?

To me it does, but I see now that I chose the term poorly.
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still trying to shake thoughts of those helping hands of fantasy... would only hope there's a happy ending

personal pronoun preferences can be hard to determine... my hope is that people see me for who i really am (though i'm always changing) that's why mine would be: "whatever".
 
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I've seen a change when the so-called social platforms cane about... The anonymity of some people to, apparently, have free reign to be bad was eye-opening.

I've left platforms and one I was banned by another author who was jealous of my work, recently. It was a strange situation but as I didn't enjoy said platform, I didn't fight to get back on, not worth it, at the end of the day.

Where people began to attack online, there were still people talking but they were far and few. Then, the Pandemic happened... Whoa! The isolation has been hard to swallow and now that I've lost the two men in my life, people seem to be ill-at-ease to talk about their sons or husband/partner. So another blow of isolation of another kind.

This group here, has been tremendously helpful and beneficial to my sanity (LOL!). It's a rare find, especially when the recommended bereavement forum was getting me nowhere.

Outside the home, I've seen the good in people so much more these days, it makes me cry as it's do heartfelt.

I was always shy and a loner and things have improved completely in the last 25 years. Oh don't get me wrong, there were bumps in the roads. I'm still feeling lonely overall but I know that going out for shopping this week, daughter and I are going to have a blast picking up our groceries, there'll be some funny chats and when we get home, we'll put our shopping away, get either lunch or dinner, go about our motions and then the loneliness will strike again.

Thankfully, CoffeeBean will pop around the corner with his toy pretzel in his mouth and bring a smile to the corners of our mouths...

Finally, I support others with their dreams but mine suffered abuse. The great balance, which sometimes is so uneven. The reason for your question is that nowadays it is readily available here online. People had dreams before but they didn't have a place to express those dreams. Hope that helps!
 
hollydolly said:
what about Self Identification by Proxy... for example.. in today's papers, and not for the first time..

Like many parents on a Sunday evening, Patricia Chalmers was busy checking for unwashed sports kit in her 14-year-old daughter’s school bag when she discovered something rather perplexing.

Crumpled up inside was a letter from her teacher regarding a project. While the contents made sense, Patricia was confused by the name — it was addressed to Lex Chalmers. Her daughter’s name is Esme.

‘Instinctively, I suspected something was wrong but I waited until next morning before I phoned the school,’ says Patricia, a 49-year-old mother-of-two from Swindon.

‘Esme had been dressing differently for months, no longer wearing the skirts or dresses she’d loved when she was younger and was instead wearing baggy hoodies and jeans. She’d chopped off her long hair into a short crop. I was absolutely fine with it. She’s a teenager. She can dress how she wants.
‘But I’d also discovered she was ordering chest binders (which flatten the breasts) and I was worried she’d hurt herself.

‘I’d read up on gender identity and reassured her she could be as gender non-conforming as she wanted, but I wasn’t going to let her harm her body. She was still developing. So, I wondered if the change of name was connected to this.’

When she phoned her daughter’s co-educational state secondary school, the receptionist claimed the name change ‘must be a mistake’.

But Patricia wanted to be sure and sent an email. ‘I wanted to clarify in writing that they definitely didn’t use a different name for my daughter and that she should be referred to as Esme,’ she says.

‘They took a day to respond but eventually replied saying that in keeping with their Equality, Inclusion and Diversity policy, they had “socially transitioned” [when you refer to someone by different names and pronouns to match their gender identity] my daughter and were referring to her with the gender-neutral name Lex and they/them pronouns.

‘I burst into tears. Esme had not mentioned anything to me, but I knew social transition could harm her mental health. She is on the autistic spectrum and has suffered with anxiety and depression.

‘Changing her identity to one thing at school and being something else at home could make things even more difficult for her. I couldn’t believe the school had done this behind my back. How dare they? I was livid.’

Most parents will find it shocking that a teacher would adopt a child’s changed identity without parental consent or knowledge.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...rs-not-call-boy-reported-social-services.html
Click to expand...
Well, the first problem was naming her "Esme"...

;)
 
There is tremendous social disorientation currently.

Probably it would help to have coming-of-age rituals, where social/cultural expectancies are clearly defined and announce directly or by unmistakable implication, as in bar/bah mitzvahs, quinceañera, etc.

Really, the last two generations have had no actual societal expectancies asked of them, and they've naturally extended childhood in part because of it.
 

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