California bans new gas/diesel vehicles

[Don M.]

California has voted to ban the sale of new fossil fuel powered vehicles by the year 2035. I suspect this will prove to be little other than some "feel good" legislation. The electrical grid in California is already having problems supplying reliable electric power, and without a massive investment in that infrastructure, there is little chance of it's being able to support the charging of millions of car/truck batteries, daily, without creating even more power interruptions.

While this seems like a positive step in curbing global warming, it will probably prove to have little effect. We are already at, or very near, the "tipping point" where even a massive global effort to reduce carbon emissions will be "too little, too late". The Greenland ice sheet is melting, more every year, and there is a massive chunk of Antarctic ice that may be just a couple of years from breaking loose....and this landlocked ice will probably raise the oceans substantially by 2035...and continue to increase with every passing decade.

Then, there is the little mention of the release of landlocked Methane gas from the permafrost in Canada, Alaska, Siberia....and the ocean depths. This Methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, and there are billions of tons of this gas waiting to be released as the global temperatures continue to rise.

In coming decades, our world is going to change....Substantially....

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...of-new-gaspowered-cars-by-2035-180313529.html

 

[Irwin]

In 15 years, electric vehicles will be ubiquitous, anyway, as battery technology advances and prices fall. Electric vehicles will be cheaper to manufacture, so they'll be cheaper, which will cause people to buy them over gasoline powered vehicles.

They should also mandate that all new homes, offices, factories... have solar panels.

We can solve this problem if we put in the effort. We might not see climate results during our lifetimes, but in 100 years, people will. In the meantime, we'll have cleaner air and water, and less noise.

 

[Aunt Bea]

I hope that I'm still around to see how this plays out.

I wonder how long it will actually take for gasoline to become a rare commodity for classic car enthusiasts or if they will convert to some type of plant-based alcohol fuel that they cook up in the garage.

I also wonder how long it will be before we eliminate our dependence on personal vehicles in favor of basic transportation using driverless Ubers, buses, trains, etc...

 

[C'est Moi]

California has voted to ban the sale of new fossil fuel powered vehicles by the year 2035. I suspect this will prove to be little other than some "feel good" legislation. The electrical grid in California is already having problems supplying reliable electric power, and without a massive investment in that infrastructure, there is little chance of it's being able to support the charging of millions of car/truck batteries, daily, without creating even more power interruptions.

While this seems like a positive step in curbing global warming, it will probably prove to have little effect. We are already at, or very near, the "tipping point" where even a massive global effort to reduce carbon emissions will be "too little, too late". The Greenland ice sheet is melting, more every year, and there is a massive chunk of Antarctic ice that may be just a couple of years from breaking loose....and this landlocked ice will probably raise the oceans substantially by 2035...and continue to increase with every passing decade.

Then, there is the little mention of the release of landlocked Methane gas from the permafrost in Canada, Alaska, Siberia....and the ocean depths. This Methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, and there are billions of tons of this gas waiting to be released as the global temperatures continue to rise.

In coming decades, our world is going to change....Substantially....

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...of-new-gaspowered-cars-by-2035-180313529.html

Point of clarification... the ban was an EXECUTIVE ORDER by the governor. Not exactly "voted."

As California continues to battle ever more deadly and destructive wildfires up and down the state, California governor Gavin Newsom has issued a sweeping executive order that will effectively ban the sale of new gasoline and diesel-driven vehicles by the year 2035 by requiring that any car you drive off the dealer’s lot be zero emission.

 

[Nathan]

@Don M., I agree that this order is "too little, too late" and that California has serious electrical supply problems. Earthquakes make nuclear plants even more risky than their design limitations, which is disappointing as I've always been pro-nuke....until the Fukushima disaster in Japan.
...back to electric cars: they hold promise, better batteries will spell wider acceptance. I doubt that I'll ever own an electric car, I just bought a new truck last year; by 2035 it's still going to have less than 50,000 miles on it.

 

[tbeltrans]

Well, if California is serious about this, they should take steps to stop the production of methane gas by closing all Italian and Mexican restaurants in the state.

Tony

 

[Don M.]

If California was serious about Climate Change, that state would be doing something to control their annual forest fires. I suspect that the last few weeks alone, that state has released more pollutants into the atmosphere from its fires than all its vehicle emissions from this year.

Electric vehicles are a good idea, but until there are batteries that can be fully charged in minutes....instead of hours....and charging stations by the 10's of thousands, these vehicles will be of little use for other than local driving. And...to meet the electricity demand, without adding to the pollution, thousands of acres of solar/wind farms would need to be erected....at a cost of billions.

The ONLY sensible option I've seen for vehicle power is Hydrogen....but there again, such a transition would take many years, and 10's of billions of dollars....all of which would eventually fall on the shoulders of the vehicle owners and taxpayers.

 

[Phoenix]

At present my husband cannot fit into any electric car I've seen. He's a tall guy with long legs.

 

[fmdog44]

How do you charge it when you live in an apartment or condo? By he year 2035 what kind of toxic emissions will vehicle put out?!

 

[StarSong]

Climate change is increasingly problematic for everyone on the planet. If it's not yet knocking on your area's door, it will be soon. Making sport or denigrating the efforts of leaders who are attempting to build awareness and enforce climate friendlier measures is shortsighted and pure folly.

So far, the US federal government is ensuring that we remain much more a part of the problem than of the solution.

Ask not for whom the climate change tolls, my friends. Within short order it will toll for me and thee.

 

[asp3]

If California was serious about Climate Change, that state would be doing something to control their annual forest fires. I suspect that the last few weeks alone, that state has released more pollutants into the atmosphere from its fires than all its vehicle emissions from this year.

Only 3% of the forests in California are on state land, most of the forests are on federal land, so it's the feds that need to up their game.

In addition fires are a normal part of the forest lifecycle and are actually required for some species of trees to be driven to reproduce. The fire suppression of the last 100 years or so has choked many of the forests with too much burnable undergrowth. If we would have allowed smaller, less destructive fires throughout those years the fires we have today would have been smaller and wouldn't have spread as far. I've seen articles that the indigenous people who lived in California practiced preventative fires before Europeans showed up.

So in order to keep our forests healthy we still need to have fires, but smaller, less destructive ones will produce less greenhouse gases and will keep the forests healthy to be able to take in CO2 from the air.

 

[Don M.]

How do you charge it when you live in an apartment or condo? By he year 2035 what kind of toxic emissions will vehicle put out?!

Without a massive investment in "charging stations"...equal to todays gas stations, and a battery technology that allows charging in minutes, instead of hours, a transition to electric vehicles would seem to be very impractical. That, plus the need to create a massive increase in electrical capacity to feed this increased Kw/hr. need...without causing brownouts in homes, etc., is going to be necessary. If such a capacity increase were to rely on coal or natural gas electrical production, the pollutants released by the power plants would be almost as much as today's gas/diesel vehicles.

 

[Don M.]

So in order to keep our forests healthy we still need to have fires, but smaller, less destructive ones will produce less greenhouse gases and will keep the forests healthy to be able to take in CO2 from the air.

Yes, the Native Americans knew the value of keeping the forests cleaned up by controlled burning, but those lessons have fallen on deaf ears. Even if the US were to begin a sensible forest management program, the planet still faces the problem with the Amazon rain forests being decimated by thoughtless actions in Brazil. The Amazon has been the planets "air purifier" for centuries, and that is being destroyed.

 

[asp3]

At present my husband cannot fit into any electric car I've seen. He's a tall guy with long legs.

Has your husband tried a Tesla? I've seen some big people in them.

How do you charge it when you live in an apartment or condo? By he year 2035 what kind of toxic emissions will vehicle put out?!

Many workplaces in the Silicon Valley area have chargers at their workplaces for their employees and in fact they're often free as a perk. So many people are able to recharge at work. There are also many charging stations spread around the area at shopping centers, stores, transit centers and other places.

 

[StarSong]

Many workplaces in the Silicon Valley area have chargers at their workplaces for their employees and in fact they're often free as a perk. So many people are able to recharge at work. There are also many charging stations spread around the area at shopping centers, stores, transit centers and other places.

Same is true in Los Angeles.

 

[asp3]

Yes, the Native Americans knew the value of keeping the forests cleaned up by controlled burning, but those lessons have fallen on deaf ears. Even if the US were to begin a sensible forest management program, the planet still faces the problem with the Amazon rain forests being decimated by thoughtless actions in Brazil. The Amazon has been the planets "air purifier" for centuries, and that is being destroyed.

I agree completely regarding Brazil, but until certain world leaders stop supporting the president of Brazil it's unlikely that there will be any changes. Even then the emboldened loggers, ranchers and miners will be very difficult to reign in.

 

[Phoenix]

Has your husband tried a Tesla? I've seen some big people in them.

My husband drives a 2002 Lincoln Town Car. It's perfect for him. We go almost nowhere - once every three weeks for groceries. Most of the things we need we order online and have them delivered. Once a year we go to the doctor. I drive a 2004 Buick LaSabe. He fits in it, though not as good as in the Lincoln. He has to lean the seat back a little and slide it all the way back. We do not plan to ever buy another car. Our footprint is low all around.

 

[Aunt Marg]

What a counter-productive world we live in.

Mankind knocks himself out destroying this beautiful, rich planet, and after succeeding, mankind once again knocks himself out trying to fix it.

 

[RB-TX]

Climate change is increasingly problematic for everyone on the planet. If it's not yet knocking on your area's door, it will be soon. Making sport or denigrating the efforts of leaders who are attempting to build awareness and enforce climate friendlier measures is shortsighted and pure folly.

So far, the US federal government is ensuring that we remain much more a part of the problem than of the solution.

Ask not for whom the climate change tolls, my friends. Within short order it will toll for me and thee.

**********
All this climate change talk reminds me of what we heard 25 years ago. Manhattan was supposed to have been under water 10 or 15 years ago due to ocean rise due to melting ice due to climate change.

Of course there is climate change - there always has been. Not too long ago (historically speaking) glaciers covered most the northern third of the US. Geologists claim that once the world was warmer than it is now. You can't stop Mother Nature.

That being said, there is no reason for humans to pollute the atmosphere with chemicals and more carbon dioxide, which is (according to scientists) the main cause of the green house effect. The unnecessary annual California (and other western states) fires are surely major contributes to carbon dioxide. Occasional volcanoes also play a part.

Sure the climate is changing - always has and always will and there is very little humans can do anything about it one way or other.

That's my opinion.

 

[Irwin]

If California was serious about Climate Change, that state would be doing something to control their annual forest fires. I suspect that the last few weeks alone, that state has released more pollutants into the atmosphere from its fires than all its vehicle emissions from this year.

Electric vehicles are a good idea, but until there are batteries that can be fully charged in minutes....instead of hours....and charging stations by the 10's of thousands, these vehicles will be of little use for other than local driving. And...to meet the electricity demand, without adding to the pollution, thousands of acres of solar/wind farms would need to be erected....at a cost of billions.

The ONLY sensible option I've seen for vehicle power is Hydrogen....but there again, such a transition would take many years, and 10's of billions of dollars....all of which would eventually fall on the shoulders of the vehicle owners and taxpayers.

What do you do when the batteries in your electric tools go dead? You don't sit there and wait for them to charge; you swap them with a fully charged battery. We could do the same thing with car batteries.

 

[Jules]

The ONLY sensible option I've seen for vehicle power is Hydrogen....but there again, such a transition would take many years, and 10's of billions of dollars....all of which would eventually fall on the shoulders of the vehicle owners and taxpayers.

Interesting. Part of an article I read about Jim Pattinson, one of Canada’s most respected billionaires, raved about Hydrogen powered cars.

 

[StarSong]

**********
All this climate change talk reminds me of what we heard 25 years ago. Manhattan was supposed to have been under water 10 or 15 years ago due to ocean rise due to melting ice due to climate change.

Of course there is climate change - there always has been. Not too long ago (historically speaking) glaciers covered most the northern third of the US. Geologists claim that once the world was warmer than it is now. You can't stop Mother Nature.

That being said, there is no reason for humans to pollute the atmosphere with chemicals and more carbon dioxide, which is (according to scientists) the main cause of the green house effect. The unnecessary annual California (and other western states) fires are surely major contributes to carbon dioxide. Occasional volcanoes also play a part.

Sure the climate is changing - always has and always will and there is very little humans can do anything about it one way or other.

That's my opinion.

99% of scientists disagree with you.

 

[asp3]

What a counter-productive world we live in.

Mankind knocks himself out destroying this beautiful, rich planet, and after succeeding, mankind once again knocks himself out trying to fix it.

In defense of those who came before us I don't think the science was available or strong enough to really show that we were destroying our planet by exploiting it's resources so aggressively.

However starting around the early 60s some people were pointing out where this road was leading us. I think at that point we can start evaluating decisions that were being made and the information that was available to frame those decisions.

All this climate change talk reminds me of what we heard 25 years ago. Manhattan was supposed to have been under water 10 or 15 years ago due to ocean rise due to melting ice due to climate change.

I would love to see any credible studies that were reporting that Manhattan was supposed to be under water 10 to 15 years ago. All of the reviews of previous studies that I have read and am aware of have said that the previous studies were too conservative with their numbers and the effects of climate change have exceeded their predictions.

 

[Phoenix]

One of the problems now is that most people don't do enough to try to make a difference other than giving it lip service. The problem began as cultures switched from hunter gatherers to agriculture and destroyed the natural balance. Then it expanded with the beginning of the industrial age. True, no one knew back then. We do know now. We have for 60 years, with some deciding it was not something they had worry about until recently. And even so, most don't do enough to stop it. So we are where we are. We can only go from here.

 

[Phoenix]

@Don M., I agree that this order is "too little, too late" and that California has serious electrical supply problems. Earthquakes make nuclear plants even more risky than their design limitations, which is disappointing as I've always been pro-nuke....until the Fukushima disaster in Japan.
...back to electric cars: they hold promise, better batteries will spell wider acceptance. I doubt that I'll ever own an electric car, I just bought a new truck last year; by 2035 it's still going to have less than 50,000 miles on it.

I always thought nuclear plants were lethal. Thankfully where I live the voters voted to close down the one plant we had. Unfortunately now some are trying to revive it. Solar power is the way to go. If the sun dies out, we are dead anyway. Plus, there's wind power. In the Pacific Northwest we have relied on hydroelectric plants, but with the rainfall dropping that won't always be a viable source of energy.