Catholics denied foster parent status due to religious beliefs

Murrmurr said:
In Calif., the Burkes would be approved to foster children from a Catholic family, over a certain age, probably 10 or 12, who have not indicated gender identity issues.

Like, my license specifies "1 child under age 2" because I only had a 1-bedroom apartment. I had a total of 3 foster children, all of them infants. Paxton lived here for almost 3 years, but I had to "enclose" his part of the bedroom when he was 2 or they would have had to place him with another foster.

I hung a curtain. Done.
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I slept in a crib in my parent's bedroom until I was five. Then I was sent to share a twin bed with my brother in the boys' room.
My mother whipped us with anything at hand, including belts. I had a great childhood.

I can understand that all these adoption and foster care rules have a point, but sometimes I think they're trying too hard with the non-biological parents and not enough with the biological ones.
 

Murrmurr said:
I assume they have a family law attorney. In my personal experience, family law is tricky and the judges definitely favor agencies of the gov't, such as child protection agencies and social services in general. I don't know if they just assume these agencies uphold all applicable laws and policies, or if it's about keeping their jobs, but bias in family "justice" is rampant.
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This is the law firm representing them.
https://www.becketlaw.org/media/bre...ns-faithful-catholics-from-adopting-children/
 
Della said:
I slept in a crib in my parent's bedroom until I was five. Then I was sent to share a twin bed with my brother in the boys' room.
My mother whipped us with anything at hand, including belts. I had a great childhood.

I can understand that all these adoption and foster care rules have a point, but sometimes I think they're trying too hard with the non-biological parents and not enough with the biological ones.
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I agree. But for one thing, the number of formal complaints and lawsuits from bio-parents exceeds complaints and lawsuits from foster parents by a thousand percent, probly. At least. And for another, when a child is abused in any way by a foster parent, it gets a lot of publicity, and it makes people furious. And a lot of those people pay taxes and vote at election time.

Also, while child protection services does have a nasty underbelly, they are aware that taking a child away from their parent causes trauma, and the agency will eventually have to deal with the child's mental health issues that the agency's actions caused. That costs money, and I think that's the only reason they focus on reunification; getting the child back in the bio-parent's custody asap.
 

ElCastor said:
a largely unpopular modern belief system
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It is science and not a belief system anymore, like that hamster that was exposed to a pesticide with estrogen properties while he was in utero and grew up doing female hamster activities of making nests and not being sexually interested in female hamsters, basically a transgender boy hamster who felt that he was a girl hamster (but because of biology, not because of an unpopular modern hamster belief system).

It seems that scientists have found that our gender is not one single biological system but is composed of multiple systems including physical differences in our brains as well as our gonads and the systems can end up not all expressing the same gender. Some of us are all one 'flavor' and some of us are a mixture. We are all equally valid humans regardless of whether we get a mixed eye color (e.g., hazel) or a mixed gender.

As an analogy, there was a time that epilepsy was believed to involve demonic possession and 'treatment' could even include trying to torture the demon out. Then slowly science found out it was biological and if we imagine that scientific advance happening today, it would be like Massachusetts denying a foster license to a couple who believed epilepsy was demonic possession.
 
HoneyNut said:
It is science and not a belief system anymore, like that hamster that was exposed to a pesticide with estrogen properties while he was in utero and grew up doing female hamster activities of making nests and not being sexually interested in female hamsters, basically a transgender boy hamster who felt that he was a girl hamster (but because of biology, not because of an unpopular modern hamster belief system).

It seems that scientists have found that our gender is not one single biological system but is composed of multiple systems including physical differences in our brains as well as our gonads and the systems can end up not all expressing the same gender. Some of us are all one 'flavor' and some of us are a mixture. We are all equally valid humans regardless of whether we get a mixed eye color (e.g., hazel) or a mixed gender.

As an analogy, there was a time that epilepsy was believed to involve demonic possession and 'treatment' could even include trying to torture the demon out. Then slowly science found out it was biological and if we imagine that scientific advance happening today, it would be like Massachusetts denying a foster license to a couple who believed epilepsy was demonic possession.
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Whereas, in Jan 2023, another source says:

According to an international group of over 100 clinicians and researchers, there is currently no biological evidence for “gender identity” and no laboratory test that can distinguish a trans-identified person from a non-trans-identified person. Despite this, the belief in “gender identity” is used as the basis for medically transitioning thousands of children and adolescents.

“The assumption of the core biological underpinning for ‘gender identity’ and ‘gender dysphoria’ remains an unproven theory: while biology likely plays a role in gender nonconformity, currently, there is no brain, blood, or other objective test that distinguishes a trans-identified from a non-trans identified person once confounding factors such as sexual orientation are controlled for,” (emphasis original) said the Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine (SEGM) in an article debunking false and unproven assumptions used to medically transition children.

The article addressed five myths outlined by SEGM-affiliated researcher J. Cohn in a recent publication that critically examines and refutes the assumptions made in an influential “pro-affirmation” paper by a prominent gender doctor. Cohn warned that when these myths and inaccuracies are perpetuated, they can be mistaken for “facts” that mislead both clinicians and patients alike. ~
 
Murrmurr said:
currently, there is no brain, blood, or other objective test that distinguishes a trans-identified from a non-trans identified person
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Well I'll admit I've only seen references to autopsied brains, not a test that can be performed on a living person.

I have not read the below book, but it references a lot of different studies that appear to match the science I have heard about:
brain science book.jpg
 
HoneyNut said:
Well I'll admit I've only seen references to autopsied brains, not a test that can be performed on a living person.

I have not read the below book, but it references a lot of different studies that appear to match the science I have heard about:
View attachment 299433
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The issue is debatable and the research is questionable. A group of social scientists got massively different results from their study than a group of medical scientists got from theirs, and the medical scientists got results that varied from a study done by group of biologists.

It'll take a while before all the data matches well enough to be called conclusive, or even just "good"....that is, if the research keeps getting funded. Funding could just stop at any time.
 
HoneyNut said:
As an analogy, there was a time that epilepsy was believed to involve demonic possession and 'treatment' could even include trying to torture the demon out. Then slowly science found out it was biological and if we imagine that scientific advance happening today, it would be like Massachusetts denying a foster license to a couple who believed epilepsy was demonic possession.
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The Catholics that I know, and there are quite a few, are reasonable people of good will, and not believers in demons. People that would, and do, make fine parents. I suspect that hatred and suspicion of Catholics is based on other qualities, qualities not related to child rearing.
 
ElCastor said:
I suspect that hatred and suspicion of Catholics is based on other qualities
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I doubt Social Services are discriminating specifically against Catholics, the quote said it was because of their 'faith' and I'd interpret that to mean the particular way that couple interprets their faith and not about their specific religion. I think the news organization headlined it like it was anti-Catholic to get more views and get more emotional reaction from people.

It seems like all the news organizations like to be overly sensationalizing everything.
 
Murrmurr said:
The issue is debatable and the research is questionable. A group of social scientists got massively different results from their study than a group of medical scientists got from theirs, and the medical scientists got results that varied from a study done by group of biologists.
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That sounds so exactly like the push-back claims against the dangers of cigarettes and climate change, supposed groups of experts saying there wasn't enough proof. There always seem to be people who deny advances in science and are unable to accept evidence.
 
HoneyNut said:
That sounds so exactly like the push-back claims against the dangers of cigarettes and climate change, supposed groups of experts saying there wasn't enough proof. There always seem to be people who deny advances in science and are unable to accept evidence.
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If you look at who did the research and who funded it, it's easy to know if you should dismiss it or take it seriously.
 
I applaud those folks who go through all the hoops and paperwork to foster.......
i looked into it when younger and frankly all they expected me to do it was not worth the hassle
yet as already brought up some people i know should not be accepted were. It seems like every month we see some horror story of adopted or foster kids abused ......
It is IMO the FALSE sense of security that the government agency in charge is actually checking on backgrounds/ or complaints or even visits anymore we have all heard the line of short staffed and while that has been a case.... many others just marked they checked and did not really do it.

As for proving discrimination etc ..... most people knowingly or not are actually taught the loopholes around it ...... how far you can go to stay where it still could be seen as a "misunderstanding" ..... i wish the employees who often start these things were held liable when agencies are sued etc ... IF they had skin in the game they would be LESS activism in public jobs that have NO ROOM for that ...... but if lawsuit prevails once again the Taxpayer eats it.
 
HoneyNut said:
I doubt Social Services are discriminating specifically against Catholics, the quote said it was because of their 'faith' and I'd interpret that to mean the particular way that couple interprets their faith and not about their specific religion. I think the news organization headlined it like it was anti-Catholic to get more views and get more emotional reaction from people.

It seems like all the news organizations like to be overly sensationalizing everything.
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I agree with all that.

For foster parent licensing, social services offers classes you have to attend. Then there are interviews by at least 3 different workers; one for the county, one for the child, and a health nurse. If there's a 4th, it's usually a child-safety worker.

After those interviews, if any one of those workers notes the prospective foster parent has a weak area, they recommend an additional class and social services is supposed to tell the foster-hopeful parent to sign up for that class.

Maybe that's where the breakdown was.

But I can tell you from experience, there are social workers who just don't like you, and they will lose a paper or document or miss a phone call or outright lie to keep you from progressing through the system, or whatever.
 
HoneyNut said:
It seems that scientists have found that our gender is not one single biological system but is composed of multiple systems including physical differences in our brains as well as our gonads and the systems can end up not all expressing the same gender. Some of us are all one 'flavor' and some of us are a mixture.
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I agree and that's why I'm against surgery and hormonal therapy in a young person who, while still growing, is still in a state of flux. I think it's horrific to do irreversible surgery to a young person who may simply be depressed and thinking that a sex change will make everything okay.
 
Della said:
I agree and that's why I'm against surgery and hormonal therapy in a young person who, while still growing, is still in a state of flux. I think it's horrific to do irreversible surgery to a young person who may simply be depressed and thinking that a sex change will make everything okay.
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Some of the effects of the hormone treatment alone are irreversible.

There are numerous YouTube videos posted by young adults who discuss their regrets about going through the medical process of gender change. Over half of them are seeing mental health therapists for severe depression as well as their gender dysphoria and/or self-hatred.

They are really sad videos, but most that I've watched are people who are working through it quite well. Also, most of them would agree with you that it's a horrific experience.
 
CarolfromTX said:
Make no mistake. This is not about the welfare of the child. It’s about a political agenda where wokeness is all important and traditional values are trashed.
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You had me up to "wokeness is all important..."

The last county I dealt with over my former foster son's happiness and general well-being is very ...uhh...I'd have to use the word "conservative," but for whatever invented reason, they did everything in their power (and then some) to keep me and my concerns for him out of it 100%.

They didn't even acknowledge my reports (and his physician's) about his mother's physical abuse. I even sent photos. They said they never got any photos. They advocated for reunification, and a judge gave the mother custody.

Paxton endured another 8 months of abuse from his mother until his grandmother finally recorded it. Two and a half hours of it! All in one afternoon.

Multiply that by 8 months.

A judge did, and finally, he was taken from his mother for good. But he will never be the person he was born to be.

But anyway, absolutely, it's not about the welfare of the child. It's totally about keeping the system funded.
 
HoneyNut said:
That sounds so exactly like the push-back claims against the dangers of cigarettes and climate change, supposed groups of experts saying there wasn't enough proof. There always seem to be people who deny advances in science and are unable to accept evidence.
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Like the people who pushed back against frontal lobotomies to cure mental illness when the psychiatrists had scientific evidence that it was a great advancement, and the push back from the American FDA over the advanced medicine that had all sorts of evidence that it cured morning sickness. That push back saved us from the tragedy of thalidomide.

Follow the money. The tobacco industry pushed back hard against the evidence because they wanted to keep selling cigarettes. Who's making money over all the surgery for transgender people?
 
HoneyNut said:
It seems like all the news organizations like to be overly sensationalizing everything.
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There are also reports in the news that some FBI offices are monitoring Catholic Churches as potential hot beds of extremism. If so, that and the ban on Catholic adoption may be related to the P word, something that we can’t discuss here.
Signing out on this topic. (-8
 
Della said:
Like the people who pushed back against frontal lobotomies to cure mental illness when the psychiatrists had scientific evidence that it was a great advancement, and the push back from the American FDA over the advanced medicine that had all sorts of evidence that it cured morning sickness. That push back saved us from the tragedy of thalidomide.

Follow the money. The tobacco industry pushed back hard against the evidence because they wanted to keep selling cigarettes. Who's making money over all the surgery for transgender people?
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Big Pharma ........
Life long hormone replacements and medications to counteract every side effect...... .....even those who have changed their mind the damage to bodies require life long medication ..... as well .... win win for big pharma.
 
CarolfromTX said:
i wonder how they feel about Muslims as foster parents. Because last I checked, Islam is not too friendly with the LGBTQ community.
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Why should there be any difference?
The children needing foster care are not leaving
a situation of love and luxury.
They are bruised and mentally battered.

Any home... regardless of religion, should be
one of open minded people who will help them to heal.
 
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