China jet's nosedive from 29,000 feet baffles crash specialists

[oldman]

There had to have been all kinds of alerts and aural warnings going off in the cockpit. The master alarm should have sounded first followed by the GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System) which is the aural warning that the pilots hear, "Pull UP!", "Pull Up!"

The other issue that kind of boggles my mind is that the plane left an altitude of about 28,000 feet. I believe and the investigators have stated that they estimated the plane to have gone nose down at about 650 mph when it crashed. That doesn't figure in my mind. At 28,0000 ft. and nose down, I would have suspected that at least some type of breakup while still in air would have been possible.

Were both pilots in the cockpit during the time the plane started its dive? I can believe maybe one pilot wanting to die, but both pilots? Once the CVR is played, we should know who was in the cockpit. The FDR should tell us if there was a mechanical issue, along with the readings from the plane's ACARS system.

 

[Alligatorob]

Lots of good questions @oldman I hope they get answered.

We have done an amazing job of making air travel very safe, a big part of that is gathering lessons learned from incidents like this. I hope China does it right.

It kind of sounds like a suicide thing, as other reasons for crashes decline this one probably hasn't.

 

[StarSong]

There had to have been all kinds of alerts and aural warnings going off in the cockpit. The master alarm should have sounded first followed by the GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System) which is the aural warning that the pilots hear, "Pull UP!", "Pull Up!"

The other issue that kind of boggles my mind is that the plane left an altitude of about 28,000 feet. I believe and the investigators have stated that they estimated the plane to have gone nose down at about 650 mph when it crashed. That doesn't figure in my mind. At 28,0000 ft. and nose down, I would have suspected that at least some type of breakup while still in air would have been possible.

Were both pilots in the cockpit during the time the plane started its dive? I can believe maybe one pilot wanting to die, but both pilots? Once the CVR is played, we should know who was in the cockpit. The FDR should tell us if there was a mechanical issue, along with the readings from the plane's ACARS system.

Wasn't there an incident a few years ago of a suicidal pilot who waited until his co-pilot exited the cockpit, then locked the door so the CP couldn't get back in, then crashed the plane?

 

[win231]

Murder-Suicide by plane has been committed before:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

 

[David777]

One thing certain is that investigators are not likely to issue any preliminary findings until a lengthy full report is complete. Of course that it sure to fuel weeks of news media speculation and analysis.

 

[Alligatorob]

Murder-Suicide by plane has been committed before

Numerous times
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot

 

[Remy]

Wasn't there an incident a few years ago of a suicidal pilot who waited until his co-pilot exited the cockpit, then locked the door so the CP couldn't get back in, then crashed the plane?

Yes, I believe so. I remember watching this on some show.

 

[oldman]

Wasn't there an incident a few years ago of a suicidal pilot who waited until his co-pilot exited the cockpit, then locked the door so the CP couldn't get back in, then crashed the plane?

This was the flight by Germanwings. The First Officer had the Captain locked out of the cockpit after he left his seat to use the lavatory. It was later discovered that the F/O had been under psychiatric care and was personally told not to fly, but none of the psychiatrists that examined him had notified the airlines. The pilot flew the plane into the Alps.

On a side note, when I left the cockpit to use the lavatory or any reason for that matter, I had the head Flight Attendant or Purser (F/A) come into the cockpit and sit in my seat.

 

[oldman]

This plane was in the air and only about 100 miles from its destination, so the pilots should have been preparing to configure the aircraft for landing, but even so, the plane should have been on autopilot, unless there may have been a weather issue.

I think I heard that the two black boxes have been found. I didn't hear if the NTSB or the FAA were invited over to China to help with the investigation.

 

[Lewkat]

This was the flight by Germanwings. The First Officer had the Captain locked out of the cockpit after he left his seat to use the lavatory. It was later discovered that the F/O had been under psychiatric care and was personally told not to fly, but none of the psychiatrists that examined him had notified the airlines. The pilot flew the plane into the Alps.

On a side note, when I left the cockpit to use the lavatory or any reason for that matter, I had the head Flight Attendant or Purser (F/A) come into the cockpit and sit in my seat.

I saw a rendition of this on either the History channel or Discovery. It was under the Air Disasters programs.

 

[Autumn72]

One thing certain is that investigators are not likely to issue any preliminary findings until a lengthy full report is complete. Of course that it sure to fuel weeks of news media speculation and analysis.

China will do the report for real communism tell the truth more.

 

[oldman]

China, like Egypt have been known to deny any culpability when one of their planes went down. Normally, the passengers will hire one attorney to attempt a fair and just settlement. However, most aviation attorneys have stated that the first few passenger’s heirs have hired their own attorney and for whatever reason has made out better with cash settlements.

In 1999, an Egypt Air plane crashed into the ocean. The NTSB ruled it to be suicide by pilot. The Egyptian government spent a lot of money trying to have the ruling overturned and to some degree was able to lessen the payout.