Chopping down the Hadrian's Wall Tree

againstthegrain said:
Pretty sure there is enormous pressure on the police to arrest someone for this crime. If there were actual physical evidence found implicating either the man or the 16yo I'm sure it would have been leaked by now. Based on American law enforcement they're grasping at straws and arresting anyone they can hoping the world will forget about this for a while.
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Besides that he's a former lumberjack, I'm sure the police arrested him because they feel he also had a motive.

The means, a motive, and he lives in the area. Makes him a good suspect.
 
Murrmurr said:
Besides that he's a former lumberjack, I'm sure the police arrested him because they feel he also had a motive.

The means, a motive, and he lives in the area. Makes him a good suspect.
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It doesn't make him guilty though..........what evidence do they have?

I would trust an old logger far more than any police department under pressure to produce arrests.
 
againstthegrain said:
It doesn't make him guilty though..........what evidence do they have?

I would trust an old logger far more than any police department under pressure to produce arrests.
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Of course it doesn't make him guilty. It only makes him someone investigators want to investigate.

That police department wants to find out who chopped down the tree. If they're under pressure it's because people are extremely upset and it's getting loads of attention. But I highly doubt the chief is telling them to close the case even if they have to pin it on an innocent person. And that guy will get his due process.

They're conducting an investigation, ffs. I hope they get results.
 
Murrmurr said:
Of course it doesn't make him guilty. It only makes him someone investigators want to investigate.

That police department wants to find out who chopped down the tree. If they're under pressure it's because people are extremely upset and it's getting loads of attention. But I highly doubt the chief is telling them to close the case even if they have to pin it on an innocent person.

They're conducting an investigation, ffs. I hope they get results.
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You trust the cops WAY more than me.
 
VaughanJB said:
I trust the police too. If I had no trust in the police than we'd be one step away from anarchy. If we don't trust them to uphold the law, we certainly can't trust individuals. Are there bad cops? Sure. Let's identify them, prosecute them, and replace them.
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Where have you been the last 50 years? If you've been in the US you'd should have realized the "profession" of policing is corrupt protected by immunity, prosecutors, and their own. From the NYPD to Barney Fife in Mayberry, NC.

Where are the answers from Uvalde, TX? 17 months later there are none, because the different police agencies are busy covering their asses and avoiding responsibility.
 
againstthegrain said:
Where have you been the last 50 years? If you've been in the US you'd should have realized the "profession" of policing is corrupt protected by immunity, prosecutors, and their own. From the NYPD to Barney Fife in Mayberry, NC.

Where are the answers from Uvalde, TX? 17 months later there are none, because the different police agencies are busy covering their asses and avoiding responsibility.
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You honestly believe the Northumberland police department is trying to put one over on historical tree-lovers? This is the Hadrian Wall Tree Scandal? The UK Copper Caper?

You've seen the movie Fuzz, haven't you? That wasn't a documentary.
 
Murrmurr said:
You honestly believe the Northumberland police department is trying to put one over on historical tree-lovers? This is the Hadrian Wall Tree Scandal? The UK Copper Caper?

You've seen the movie Fuzz, haven't you? That wasn't a documentary.
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It's possible, where's the evidence, trial date, etc? IIRC arrests follow an investigation, they don't precede it.
 
againstthegrain said:
It's possible, where's the evidence, trial date, etc? IIRC arrests follow an investigation, they don't precede it.
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Maybe in Northumberland they do. Maybe there's evidence you're not aware of. Maybe that guy got so pissed, he chopped down that tree. Maybe the police are making a horrible mistake.

Do you have the inside scoop? If not, maybe we should just wait it out and see what happens.
 
againstthegrain said:
Where have you been the last 50 years? If you've been in the US you'd should have realized the "profession" of policing is corrupt protected by immunity, prosecutors, and their own. From the NYPD to Barney Fife in Mayberry, NC.

Where are the answers from Uvalde, TX? 17 months later there are none, because the different police agencies are busy covering their asses and avoiding responsibility.
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Oh, I've been around. :D

As a society, I think it is reasonable to have a designated organization to police the laws. I don't believe our society can function without such a thing.

I also don't allow the bad eggs define the entire nest. We have a user on the board named 911, he was a lifelong cop in New York, I believe. Are you saying he was corrupt? If the system needs fixing, we should fix it. We shouldn't throw the system into the garbage. What is the alternative, that we all make up our own minds about what is right and wrong?

As an aside - can you name a single business that doesn't have questions over some aspect of them? For example, have you any idea of the terrible things the oil companies have done, and are doing? Do you own anything by Apple, who use sub-contracting to avoid liability? Do you use any chemicals in your garden, and know the horrible things they've done to people and the environment? Do you fly? Do you buy anything from Amazon?

I could go on, but there's no point. If there's a problem, you address it. Abandoning it simply leaves a vacuum. I happen to live a law-abiding lifestyle. In fact, I have never been arrested for anything, however minor. I have zero problems with the police.
 
againstthegrain said:
^^^Whataboutism at it's finest.
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Try to stay on point, ATG. @VaughanJB 's point was that, just as within corporations, state and local police departments address and resolve systemic problems whenever and wherever they are discovered.

Here's a fun related story:

A recently appointed New Orleans District Attorney decided to go soft on crime, turning his Parish into a revolving door for offenders, even violent offenders, and particularly Black offenders, as he believes (or believed) Blacks in New Orleans are unfairly profiled, arrested, tried, and jailed due to their skin color.

The parish experienced a sharp increase in violent crimes. Armed carjackings by repeat offenders became a daily plague, that crime having increased more than 10-fold.

When citizens grew angry, the DA made public excuses and justifications for the numbers....until he was carjacked at gunpoint right after helping his elderly mother into his shiny new Mercedes Benz.

The parish citizens are currently anxiously waiting to see what kind of sentencing the two Black offenders will receive this time around; this being their 3rd armed carjacking offense in under a year. Three times arrested, booked, and arraigned, three times released by the court at the DAs behest.

No matter which way they lean, once the public becomes aware of, or feels the effects of corruption, bias, and general wrong-doing within an agency, especially a public service agency, everyday people demand change and people in authority demand answers.

And sometimes karma works. :p

 
againstthegrain said:
That says it all - it hasn't effected me - so the status quo is just fine.

NYPD has been throughly corrupt for 50+ years, when's that going to change?
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That's not what I said. I said issues should be addressed. On the other hand, I don't commit crime, so have managed to avoid interaction with the police. Sue me.

Talk to me about a personal issue you've had.
 
againstthegrain said:
That says it all - it hasn't effected me - so the status quo is just fine.

NYPD has been throughly corrupt for 50+ years, when's that going to change?
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I'm having a really hard time understanding what that has to do with a tree in Nottingham Forest.

I mean, I do understand you don't trust cops; that's clear; but this is about an arrest based on probable cause and circumstantial evidence (which is evidence) because a beloved tree got chopped down in the vicinity of a disgruntled lumberjack.

The guy was given reasonable bail, he's home in his caravan, and he has a right to due process. Where does the corruption come into play?
 
Murrmurr said:
I'm having a really hard time understanding what that has to do with a tree in Nottingham Forest.

I mean, I do understand you don't trust cops; that's clear; but this is about an arrest based on probable cause and circumstantial evidence (which is evidence) because a beloved tree got chopped down in the vicinity of a disgruntled lumberjack.

The guy was given reasonable bail, he's home in his caravan, and he has a right to due process. Where does the corruption come into play?
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What was the probable cause? Please enlighten us.
 
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