Colorado Muslim Who Killed 10 in Supermarket Pleads Insanity

[StarSong]

I’ve listed below the facts I didn’t know until I read this article. If you have proof these are only fiction and speculation I’m open to the proof.

1. I didn’t know a Colorado Muslim killed 10 people in a supermarket.
2. I didn’t know he removed his clothes at the killing.
3. I didn’t know he was arrested in nothing but his underpants.
4. I didn’t know the 9/11 killer Muhammed Atta left his suitcase at the airport.
5. I didn’t know he left a letter in it referring to his upcoming trip to Paradise.

Again, I’m very open to any proof this is all fiction or speculation.

From the story linked in the first post, the gunman removed his clothing when he was about to surrender, presumably so the police would know he had no weapons, rather than because he expected to arrive in paradise at any moment.

Sad, infuriating, and and quite embarrassing to say, there are so many mass shootings in the US each year that it's virtually impossible to keep track of the details of all of them.

We Americans can be very s-l-o-w learners who apparently need some lessons taught ad nauseum.

 

[Mike]

If they had accepted his plea of insanity, they could have
saved the price of a trial, everybody upset by the lenient
sentence and locked him up forever in a secure mental
establishment.

When somebody tries the insane track, the law tries to
disprove that he was insane, they should accept it, maybe
two or three times and you would never, ever hear it tried
again.

At least that is what I think.

Mike.

 

[TabbyAnn]

From the story linked in the first post, the gunman removed his clothing when he was about to surrender, presumably so the police would know he had no weapons, rather than because he expected to arrive in paradise at any moment.

Yes, one of the facts I listed that I gained from the article was that he removed his clothes.
Why he removed them was not listed in the facts I gained.

 

[ohioboy]

Section 16-8-101.5 - Insanity defined - offenses committed on and after July 1, 1995 - definitions, Colo. Rev. Stat. § 16-8-101.5 | Casetext Search + Citator

 

[ohioboy]

Yes, one of the facts I listed that I gained from the article was that he removed his clothes.
Why he removed them was not listed in the facts I gained.

An outward sign of mental instability. A pre - planned strategy.

 

[VaughanJB]

I’ve listed below the facts I didn’t know until I read this article. If you have proof these are only fiction and speculation I’m open to the proof.

1. I didn’t know a Colorado Muslim killed 10 people in a supermarket.
2. I didn’t know he removed his clothes at the killing.
3. I didn’t know he was arrested in nothing but his underpants.
4. I didn’t know the 9/11 killer Muhammed Atta left his suitcase at the airport.
5. I didn’t know he left a letter in it referring to his upcoming trip to Paradise.

Again, I’m very open to any proof this is all fiction or speculation.

First of all, I've no idea if they're facts or not. Let's assume they are.

As for the individual items, let's take a look. The first point is strange. When was the last time you saw a headline regarding a murder, or other crime, that prefaced the accused with their religion? For example, when was the last time you read "Christian boys performed a school shooting." Personally, I don't recall a single example, but I'm sure you know of several instances. I'd love to see them.

2 and 3 are just..... well, they may be facts, but they're at the same level as telling me which cereal he ate for breakfast that morning, or what brand of aftershave he used. They're completely irrelevant. Why do you think these are important to know? What do they change?

4 is equally suspect. There is no known connection to this incident and 9/11. However, by attempting to make a connection, the author is simply trying to tap into the nations feelings about that terrible event. It's pure manipulation, and it seems to have worked. If you want to know about the 9/11 incident, why not read up on it?

5, well - I can't fathom how you did not know this. It was well reported at the time. It seems to me you don't know much about the perpetrators of 9/11, and their actions. For example, it's here:

The Last Night Document: Instructions for the September 11 Attack

This is a perfect example of what the author was trying to do. He wants his audience to connect these two incidents, and those who don't know much about 9/11 and its motivations and history can be easily misled. The "article" is propaganda. Two of your "facts" are completely irrelevant. Another two refer to a completely different incident. The final one tries to suggest there's a connection between a world religion and the incident.

I don't expect this is helpful to you, because I think your mind is made up. But I read an article like that, take a look at the background of the author who spends his entire time attacking Muslims, and see it for what it is. Just another tainted piece of media.

 

[VaughanJB]

The way to counter an "insanity defense " is to bring evidence about what the subject did BEFORE AND AFTER the act was committed. Did they hide, did they flee, did they have a "guilty mind " ? Did they plan ahead, did they plan to escape ? Did they know what they were doing was wrong ? All of that should be brought out by the prosecution at trial. Jimb.

A lot depends on how the jurisdiction he is being tried in define "sane". Other than that, is the sentence for committing such an act lesser if he's found insane? I'm not really sure, but clearly he should be spending the remainder of his life behind some kind of bars.

 

[TabbyAnn]

First of all, I've no idea if they're facts or not. Let's assume they are.

In your post #4 you say the article presents zero facts.
In your post #7 you say the article is pure speculation.
In your post #31 you say you have no idea if they’re facts or not.

When I listed the facts I gleaned from the article and you said were fiction, I invited your proof of fiction, but you wandered completely away from any proof of fiction and began saying they are strange, irrelevant, suspect, and unconnected to 9/11 and so on. My list never mentioned a connection to 9/11, just a fact about 9/11 I thought was interesting.

The only thing my mind is made up about is - you’re having difficulty responding to what is actually written. Instead, you drift off into your own misty world of theories and conspiracy theories you accuse others of. I have no vested interest in the author or the case.

 

[VaughanJB]

In your post #4 you say the article presents zero facts.
In your post #7 you say the article is pure speculation.
In your post #31 you say you have no idea if they’re facts or not.

When I listed the facts I gleaned from the article and you said were fiction, I invited your proof of fiction, but you wandered completely away from any proof of fiction and began saying they are strange, irrelevant, suspect, and unconnected to 9/11 and so on. My list never mentioned a connection to 9/11, just a fact about 9/11 I thought was interesting.

The only thing my mind is made up about is - you’re having difficulty responding to what is actually written. Instead, you drift off into your own misty world of theories and conspiracy theories you accuse others of. I have no vested interest in the author or the case.

With respect, you're being very selective there. Read ALL of post #4. I *still* don't know which items are facts and which aren't, because I've not looked into them. Perhaps they have been found to be all facts, perhaps none. But you cannot discern that from a single article. So I ask you, how many of these "facts" did you bother to double-check? How many did you assume were facts, just because of this one article?

Am I drifting off? No. I'm asking questions. I'm not assuming something is accurate and true just because someone wrote something on the internet. The author matters. His agenda colors every words he uses. His attempt to connect 9/11 with a shooting in Chicago is relevant. You appear to have a blanket acceptance, probably because it aligns with your already held beliefs.

Seriously, he may have been arrested in his underwear. Wow, that changes EVERYTHING.

But does it?

You seem to be saying that being inquisitive, questioning the messenger, is somehow avoiding the details. In fact, it's the precise opposite.

By the way, the OP clearly tries to draw a line. I don't understand why you don't think so.

 

[TabbyAnn]

You seem to be saying that being inquisitive, questioning the messenger, is somehow avoiding the details.

You need to improve your reading comprehension skills and learn to read what is actually written instead of what you think a person seems to be saying. There is no seem about it. It is either written there or it isn't. But I will say that when you can't answer a question and you deflect away from it by asking a string of other questions, that is a psychological situation called Deflection. You don't seem to be deflecting, you are.

 

[TabbyAnn]

When was the last time you saw a headline regarding a murder, or other crime, that prefaced the accused with their religion?

You’ve brought up one of the great mysteries to me about the American press.

During my lifetime the U.S. has spent billions fighting the Al-Qaeda Muslims, the ISIS Muslims, the Hesbollah Muslims, the Hamas Muslims, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Muslims, and the Houthi Muslims. And yet the American press networks can’t say the word Muslim. ???? I welcome comments on this.

 

[Pepper]

You’ve brought up one of the great mysteries to me about the American press.

During my lifetime the U.S. has spent billions fighting the Al-Qaeda Muslims, the ISIS Muslims, the Hesbollah Muslims, the Hamas Muslims, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Muslims, and the Houthi Muslims. And yet the American press networks can’t say the word Muslim. ???? I welcome comments on this.

I just say 'arab.' Seems to fit better and there are so many other Muslim nations that don't start trouble for the west. I also don't want to blame a religion, no matter what Muhammad said, or his 9 year old wife.

There are too many Muslims I know from the neighborhood who seem nice enough. And my favorite Muslim is Diva. I also had respect for Malcolm X.

It's Arab for me.

 

[jimintoronto]

A lot depends on how the jurisdiction he is being tried in define "sane". Other than that, is the sentence for committing such an act lesser if he's found insane? I'm not really sure, but clearly he should be spending the remainder of his life behind some kind of bars.

In British Common Law, the McNaughten rules apply to those who attempt to plead in sanity as a defense to a criminal charge. READ THIS. the mcnaughton rule regarding insanity defense - Bing

JimB.

 

[ohioboy]

In British Common Law, the McNaughten rules apply to those who attempt to plead in sanity as a defense to a criminal charge. READ THIS. the mcnaughton rule regarding insanity defense - Bing

JimB.

Replaced in the U.S. mostly with a combination of it and the Durham Rule which adopted the Model Penal Code version.

Section 4.01. Mental Disease or Defect Excluding Responsibility.

(1) A person is not responsible for criminal conduct if at the time of such conduct as a result of mental disease or defect he lacks substantial capacity either to appreciate the criminality [wrongfulness] of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of law.

United States of America v. Archie W. Brawner, Appellant, 471 F.2d 969 (D.C. Cir. 1972)

 

[OneEyedDiva]

TabbuAnn, you are obviously Islamophobic and that is your problem. I refuse to let it be mine! Here are some facts that either, in ignorance you don't know or in hatefulness, you refuse to acknowledge because I don't see you posting about the many Caucasians who commit mass murders.

White Supremacists have killed way more than 10 people or even 3,000 (WTC). More than 4,000 people of color, mostly African Americans were lynched by the KKK and similar groups over the years. Many of the perps claimed to be Christians and some even used Christianity to justify their heinous actions. To top it off, they sent out postcards of the lynchings. The number I stated above does not include murders by other means. History of Lynching in America

Fact: Homeland Security has named White Supremacist groups as "the most persistent and lethal threat within the U.S."
https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...st-persistent-and-lethal-threat-within-the-us
Fact: More than half of mass murders have been committed by White males. Here are the latest stats that show the percentage is up to 53% from 49% in an article I read a couple of years ago. Know your history! So really, assuming you are Caucasian, you are more likely to be murdered by one of your own folks. Just sayin.... Mass shootings by shooter’s race in the U.S. 2023 | Statista

You also made the ludicrous statement in another thread that after 9/11, Muslims were treated as if we could do no wrong! Nothing is farther from the truth. There was a general fear, distrust and hatred of Muslims across this country and the world, especially after 9/11. We were spied on (I swear my phone was tapped), stopped and searched for no good reason (happened to my husband at the airport...I told him lucky I wasn't there!). Mosques in N.J. were spied on by police from New York!

Muslims or perceived Muslims were attacked and assaulted. My husband was one of them; someone mistook him for an Arab and tried to stab him. Several Indian men wearing turbans and mistakenly thought to be Muslim were attacked. One man who turned out to be an Indian Sikh, was killed. A Muslim cab driver was stabbed, a Muslim student was purposely rammed by a car. One college (perhaps more) even taught an anti-Islam course. Hate crimes against Muslims rose significantly over the years.

I doubt a course teaching anti-Semitism would be tolerated in this country! List of Islamophobic incidents - Wikipedia

 

[Blaze Duskdreamer]

If they had accepted his plea of insanity, they could have
saved the price of a trial, everybody upset by the lenient
sentence and locked him up forever in a secure mental
establishment.

When somebody tries the insane track, the law tries to
disprove that he was insane, they should accept it, maybe
two or three times and you would never, ever hear it tried
again.

At least that is what I think.

Mike.

They're released from mental hospitals even faster.

 

[StarSong]

@OneEyedDiva, you are so right about rampant Islamophobia in this country, particularly after 9-11. As you said, it often includes not only Muslims, but Sikhs, Pakistanis, Indians, Filipinos, and anyone else whose darker-than-Caucasian skin tone suggests to the ignorant that the person might be from an Arab country and thus (in their minds) an enemy.

"Christians" and Caucasians have plenty of blood on their hands. (Christian is in quotes because true followers of Christ would never kill or spread hatred in His name.) Ditto Caucasians.

 

[OneEyedDiva]

@OneEyedDiva, you are so right about rampant Islamophobia in this country, particularly after 9-11. As you said, it often includes not only Muslims, but Sikhs, Pakistanis, Indians, Filipinos, and anyone else whose darker-than-Caucasian skin tone suggests to the ignorant that the person might be from an Arab country and thus (in their minds) an enemy.

"Christians" and Caucasians have plenty of blood on their hands. (Christian is in quotes because true followers of Christ would never kill or spread hatred in His name.) Ditto Caucasians.

Exactly Star!