Common Sense Atheism

[Chris P Bacon]

All of those natural events/disasters is what happens here on Earth, we "have to" endure them because...what's the alternative?

My view: we as humans cherish our lives, and God provided that. We will all die someday, some sooner than anticipated. Death hits us pretty "close to home" and some people resent that God would "allow" death to happen. But implicit with the message[of God] is that there is existence after our worldly lives are over.

Everything that is alive, people, animals, plants, etc, dies eventually. It seems as if god was also the original creator of planned obsolescence maybe as well? Why does god make such defective creations? Stars last for millions if not billions of years, or so evidence suggests. Why can't someone who can create things like those not create something that lasts longer that people seem to these days?

Oh and I already know that the bible says that people lived much longer in the days of Noah and Methusalah but there's no proof of that. There does eem to be proof though, today, that most peple don't live to even 100 years of age, let alone mot animals and plants have much shorter lives.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Wait, newsflash ...

God just spoke to me and said, "You're on the right track, Chris."

That was it, God's message to me. Now what? All I know is to wait and see if he says more.

 

[Nathan]

Just for the record: I'm not here to "defend" Christianity or push my beliefs, but I hate to see [**archaic saying warning**] "the baby thrown out with the bathwater". That said, when I look at the wonders of nature (whether it be plant or animal) I see the work of design and engineering, rather than random evolutionary processes. Let say that again: "design and engineering". Purposeful creation and not an accident of chance. I'm not sure how someone with an atheistic view would reconcile that.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Just for the record: I'm not here to "defend" Christianity or push my beliefs, but I hate to see [**archaic saying warning**] "the baby thrown out with the bathwater". That said, when I look at the wonders of nature (whether it be plant or animal) I see the work of design and engineering, rather than random evolutionary processes. Let say that again: "design and engineering". Purposeful creation and not an accident of chance. I'm not sure how someone with an atheistic view would reconcile that.

I believe in nature too but nature doesn't tell me how I should live. Nature lets me know though that if I choose certain ways of living, I won't live as long. But evolution is a better explanation, to me, than creation.

 

[Nathan]

Oh and I already know that the bible says that people lived much longer in the days of Noah and Methusalah but there's no proof of that. There does eem to be proof though, today, that most peple don't live to even 100 years of age, let alone mot animals and plants have much shorter lives.

It look like atheists make the same mistaken assumptions about [Old Testament] Bible scripture as the Fundamentalists and Evangelicals do, taking such passages too literally. To me, the Old Testament is important only for background and context of the Jewish tradition. For Christians and those interested- only the words of Jesus is what matters.

 

[Nathan]

I believe in nature too but nature doesn't tell me how I should live. Nature lets me know though that if I choose certain ways of living, I won't live as long. But evolution is a better explanation, to me, than creation.

Always listen to nature. Evolution does happen, but does not tell a complete, convincing story. Look at DNA, it's a very complex and sophisticated code, certainly not randomly assembled, is highly suggestive of a creative thought process.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

It look like atheists make the same mistaken assumptions about [Old Testament] Bible scripture as the Fundamentalists and Evangelicals do, taking such passages too literally. To me, the Old Testament is important only for background and context of the Jewish tradition. For Christians and those interested- only the words of Jesus is what matters.

That's fine that you feel that way but your feelings, nor mine, are proof of anything. And my assumptions, mistaken or not, about the things written in the bible, are not "proof" of anything, other than our viewpoints are different ones. If the words there aren't meant to be taken literally, then it must be that some of what is written there isn't true. And if some of it isn't true, then why should I believe the parts of it that someone who KNOWS parts of it aren't as they are written, tells me can be treated as literal? Your opinions and mine are important but only to ourselves. But yours just don't seem to be meant to be taken literally.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Always listen to nature. Evolution does happen, but does not tell a complete, convincing story. Look at DNA, it's a very complex and sophisticated code, certainly not randomly assembled, is highly suggestive of a creative thought process.

It's convincing enough for me with the knowledge that exists today. Far more convincing than a book full of things that aren't meant to be taken and read literally.

Nature will have the final say. It was here before we were and it will be here after we are not. If there is anything that I can think of that resembles anything even coming close to being what god is professed to be it would be nature. And nature didn't write any books or command that any be written and adhered to on its behalf.

 

[horseless carriage]

I don't know that science will ever go so far as to either prove or disprove existence
of any gods but I'm sure that we, at this stage of history and time, don't have answers to and for all things.

Just as I empathise with Nathan about God's existence, I do find it difficult when the sort of arguments that you espouse, asks why to so many questions.

You should look up Thomas Aquinas, a saint ( I think,) venerated by many Christian churches, who questioned the same points that you have so eloquently raised.

My own take nowadays is that The Lord gave us ten commandments. I remember seeing an atheist on TV saying that although he simply cannot believe in any sort of deity, he did concede that those commandments were a decent set of rules to set one's life by. Have to say, he's not wrong.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Just as I empathise with Nathan about God's existence, I do find it difficult when the sort of arguments that you espouse, asks why to so many questions.

You should look up Thomas Aquinas, a saint ( I think,) venerated by many Christian churches, who questioned the same points that you have so eloquently raised.

My own take nowadays is that The Lord gave us ten commandments. I remember seeing an atheist on TV saying that although he simply cannot believe in any sort of deity, he did concede that those commandments were a decent set of rules to set one's life by. Have to say, he's not wrong.

Yep, I agree that those are fine ideals to try and live up to. But I don't think that they were "given" by any supernatural being or entity. And as far a commanding anything of anyone, that's a little domineering, I'd say. If some deity could create life as we know it, couldn't he create those beings without there being a need to tell them to "do this, don't do that"? Other creatures don't need a set of "commandments" that govern their actions and not all religions make those commandments a part of their beliefs. It's also difficult to cover ever life situation with only 10 rules. But as I said, thety seem like good ideas but I don't feel that they were divinely inspired. They mostly, mostly being the key word there, seem like good ideas.

 

[Nathan]

That's fine that you feel that way but your feelings, nor mine, are proof of anything. And my assumptions, mistaken or not, about the things written in the bible, are not "proof" of anything, other than our viewpoints are different ones. If the words there aren't meant to be taken literally, then it must be that some of what is written there isn't true. And if some of it isn't true, then why should I believe the parts of it that someone who KNOWS parts of it aren't as they are written, tells me can be treated as literal? Your opinions and mine are important but only to ourselves. But yours just don't seem to be meant to be taken literally.

Just keep in mind @Chris P Bacon that I am not arguing with you or trying to prove anything. You do seem a bit defensive, but that's not going to be a concern of mine.

 

[Irwin]

Just as I empathise with Nathan about God's existence, I do find it difficult when the sort of arguments that you espouse, asks why to so many questions.

You should look up Thomas Aquinas, a saint ( I think,) venerated by many Christian churches, who questioned the same points that you have so eloquently raised.

My own take nowadays is that The Lord gave us ten commandments. I remember seeing an atheist on TV saying that although he simply cannot believe in any sort of deity, he did concede that those commandments were a decent set of rules to set one's life by. Have to say, he's not wrong.

Those "rules" existed before they were written into the Tanakh some 2500 years ago. Murder, perjury, theft, and rape were not acceptable long before the creation of Judaism and Christianity. They were restrictions followed so people could live and work together in a civilized manor, and those who didn't follow the restrictions were ostracized or punished in some other way.

It's a lot easier to fight off wild animals or other tribes when your own tribe fights in a cohesive group, so it's basically survival of the fittest — an evolutionary behavioral communal attribute that was simply written down as religious law.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Just keep in mind @Chris P Bacon that I am not arguing with you or trying to prove anything. You do seem a bit defensive, but that's not going to be a concern of mine.

Thanks for that. I'd hate to be a burden upon you. And the only thing I'm trying to defend is my point of view. I maqy not be right in all that I think but I do think rather than just believe and accept or have faith without any thought about the logic of it. After all, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Christian principles aren't the only game in town either but Christians seem the most likely to try telling others that whatever they believe or don't believe is wrong.

 

[Nathan]

I

I'd hate to be a burden upon you.

Fear not, other people's viewpoint has no bearing on my well-being at all. You never have to defend your point of view, unless someone is coming at you with a broken beer bottle.

 

[Irwin]

Something I heard stated by Christopher Hitchens, who was an atheist and whose career consisted mainly of debating theists, and who ironically was named after Christ even though he was half Jewish, was that, and I paraphrase, 'any moral action performed by a person of faith could have been performed by an atheist, but plenty of immoral, wicked, or evil actions could only have been performed by a person of faith.'

That's 100% true. Without religion, you wouldn't have suicide bombers or Planned Parenthood murders, and many wars throughout history would never have been fought.

 

[mellowyellow]

There is a harmful side to western Pentecostal religion – extremists who believe people are possessed by the devil, and refuse medical help – and the huge amount of tax-free money they make, but there are positives too. How many lost kids have been saved by these Mega Churches? It’s a tricky thin line IMO.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

There is a harmful side to western Pentecostal religion – extremists who believe people are possessed by the devil, and refuse medical help – and the huge amount of tax-free money they make, but there are positives too. How many lost kids have been saved by these Mega Churches? It’s a tricky thin line IMO.

I don't think that there's any way to accurately quantify the numbers of children that have been "saved" by those churches. They may have been just as saved without any outside intervention at all but because they associated with some church or other, the churches were quick to claim credit for the redemption. I've read and known of people who had some pretty harsh things happen to them as children and they were able to salvage their lives without any intervention by a mega or a minor church at all. Life has a way of working out on it's own, I believe, although not every life is spectacular.

And those children that were saved by these mega-churches, are they still saved as adults and did they manage to pass anything on of what was given to them? I haven't heard of many adults claiming that their lives were dramatically changed by the efforts of any mega (or minor) church from their childhood. I have heard though that due to adversities that they endured and persevered against that they were able to improve and live a fruitful and positive existence. A thin line indeed.

 

[Nathan]

There is a harmful side to western Pentecostal religion – extremists who believe people are possessed by the devil, and refuse medical help – and the huge amount of tax-free money they make, but there are positives too. How many lost kids have been saved by these Mega Churches? It’s a tricky thin line IMO.

I'm ready to support the idea of revoking that tax free status, mainly due to the growing proliferation of churches violating the ban on political campaign activity by charities and churches. See IRS-501(c)(3)ban charities-churches-and-politics

 

[Murrmurr]

Just for the record: I'm not here to "defend" Christianity or push my beliefs, but I hate to see [**archaic saying warning**] "the baby thrown out with the bathwater". That said, when I look at the wonders of nature (whether it be plant or animal) I see the work of design and engineering, rather than random evolutionary processes. Let say that again: "design and engineering". Purposeful creation and not an accident of chance. I'm not sure how someone with an atheistic view would reconcile that.

Hi, Nathan. Great to see you. I hope you're doing alright.

From my atheist perspective nature is intentional design, but not by any sort of divinity. The building blocks of everything is the same stuff that exists throughout the known universe. It came together on Earth exactly the way it had to in order to survive as a living thing, and it came together in various ways for the same reason. I'm certain it came together in various ways on various planets in our galaxy and others.

So the question (for me) is What compels chemicals, proteins, minerals and other building blocks of life to come together to form a huge variety of living things that work so perfectly? I can understand why people believe that something divine compelled it to do so, or even used it to literally make living things, but I don't believe that's the answer. As complex as living things are, that just sounds too easy.

I think the answer is as complex as, say, the human body and all its parts and components....from an atheist pov.

 

[Snow74]

Damn we humans sure know how to complicate our lives ...live and let live...praise the Lord or don't makes no difference to me and should not to you...should I get an Amen on that as RuPaul would say.....

 

[Knight]

Always listen to nature. Evolution does happen, but does not tell a complete, convincing story. Look at DNA, it's a very complex and sophisticated code, certainly not randomly assembled, is highly suggestive of a creative thought process.

Completely agree with "Look at DNA, it's a very complex and sophisticated code"

https://bio.libretexts.org/Bookshel...ic_Acids/2.5:_B-Form_A-Form_and_Z-Form_of_DNA

Which then generates the question for me about mankind being created as Adam & later Eve. One DNA source that shouldn't somehow become different.

How do you explain the variations?

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Damn we humans sure know how to complicate our lives ...live and let live...praise the Lord or don't makes no difference to me and should not to you...should I get an Amen on that as RuPaul would say.....

I often ask myself that, "What would Ru Paul do?"

 

[Snow74]

I often ask myself that, "What would Ru Paul do?"

she would be busy planning the next Drag Race and tell you to Shantay Away!

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Nope, she'd be telling me, "Chris P ... you stay!"
Then she'd say, "If you can't love yourself, then
how in the hell are you gonna love someone else?"

Can I get an amen? ... (fade to commercial)

 

[Snow74]

Nope, she'd be telling me, "Chris P ... you stay!"
Then she'd say, "If you can't love yourself, then
how in the hell are you gonna love someone else?"

Can I get an amen? ... (fade to commercial)

you do think highly of yourself....I would stay...wave as you limped off the stage....lol (you know I am kidding)