Conspiracy theorists?

When someone posts objecting to an insulting term such as 'conspiracy theorist', politely asks that it stop, thanks the forum members and closes with 'Peace', treating them with disrespect says a lot about the person doing that.

There are political forums and news sites where there are informed discussions about the pandemic going on and differing opinions are tolerated. There are documents being brought to light, political motives are coming to light and it's interesting. Hopefully shining a light on the mistakes made will cause some changes before the next pandemic.

No matter how much some people try to end discussion, move on and pretend nothing happened, there were horrible decisions made during the pandemic. Many people were hurt in a variety of ways and it isn't going to go away even though discussion may be ended on speech controlled websites. You've decided against political discussions on your forum in the past, so I'm sure you can ban discussion about the pandemic if you choose or just ban it by certain people or even ban the non-conforming people. The discussion will still go on in the real world.

As a fully vaccinated person I don't understand the venom that other vaccinated people show against those who refused or the desire that so many have to control the speech or mask wearing of others.

Whatever happened to this: “I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”
 

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My general rule is to use Occam's Razor in most situations. Conspiracy theories nearly always require far too much to work to explain something that can be more easily explained by other means.
 
chic"
How do you define the difference between differing opinions and false opinions. The very nature of an opinion is that it is uniquely the individual's thoughts about a matter."
mmm.guess you didnt see the word false!
 
An opinion that does not claim to be objectively true is a matter of taste or preference. My opinion about broccoli is it tastes awful. For me alone, it is true that broccoli tastes bad. I am not claiing it tastes bad in itself, or for everyone. So I don't need to defend my opinion and you are free to disagree. Since it is a matter of taste, there is nothing to argue over.

As soon as anyone claims their opinion is objectively true, true for everyone, true about the world, they open themselves up to requests for evidence of the truth. At that point all bets are off and debate begins. If you don't want anyone to object to your opinion, don't claim that it is objectively true.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
There are many respectable, intelligent people who didn’t get vaccinated for reasons of their own. We might not agree with it but they are entitled to their decision. Vaccines weren’t mandatory , meaning we had the choice to opt out and many did.

To date, there are many people I know personally who didn’t get vaccinated and doing very well. Some of my extended family are in that group.

Covid was horrible for all concerned. Not only were people dying , it caused a huge rift between family members, friends and associates. The world was truly divided and still is.

For whatever reasons people believe what they do, we will never know. According to statistics, mental health issues have risen to an all time high. Even the statistics for gun ownership has skyrocketed since the pandemic. Clearly ‘fear’ has devastating effects on our psyche and fear of this virus affected people of ALL ages.

Shouldn’t we keep this in mind when on a site discussing controversial topics? Shouldn’t we expect opinions that are way off track from the general population? We don’t know their personal background and why they think like they do but labelling them in derogatory terms isn’t helpful.

We can’t just shut down people whose opinions we disagree with. If they already feel ostracized, shaming them isn’t going to change their mind. It just divides and segregates us as members here sharing a forum to discuss topics and opinions.
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The problem isn't that people have opinions that deviate from that of the mainstream; it's that they use "facts" that aren't consistent with reality that they get from unreliable sources and they often insult those who don't agree with them and then play the victim.
 
SeniorBen said:
The problem isn't that people have opinions that deviate from that of the mainstream; it's that they use "facts" that aren't consistent with reality that they get from unreliable sources and they often insult those who don't agree with them and then play the victim.
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That's exactly what happens. If people really had confidence in the virus theories and clot shots promoted by the chemical corporations and their mainstream media, then they wouldn't be so insecure around those of us who are healthy.
 
I'm very glad that I don't come to this particular forum of Senior Forums. I'm just commenting but I don't regularly read the posts in here. I think any sensitive person could feel that way. And most of us are sensitive to how others are treated among other things.

I don't have any requests or admonishments. People will be people and can behave well somee places and then let loose other places. I choose to keep out of this section.I like to feel good and being in some threads is depressing and I don't need that. I'm already on Prozac because of neurological imbalance. So I won't come here and possibly get tormented by nonsense.

The discussion of COVID and all that applies to it isn't worth me losing my PEACE of mind.
 
There seems to be a fair amount of confusion about the difference between opinion and fact. Opinion is not fact. it is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge: "I'm writing to voice my "opinion" on an issue of great importance" It can be based on fact or based on someone else's "opinion" (which is not necessarily based on fact - or could even be based on outright lies).
A fact, however is a thing that is known or proved to be true
Conspiracy theory content is emotionally laden and its alleged discovery can be gratifying. The evidentiary standards for corroborating conspiracy theories are typically weak, and they are usually resistant to correction. The survivability of conspiracy theories may be aided by psychological biases and by distrust of official sources. Exposure to media that endorse conspiracies increases belief.
It’s no surprise that so many people are currently in thrall to this narrative concerning the current pandemic. But studies show that some people are especially prone to these beliefs, even without the motivating uncertainty of a global health crisis. Researchers have found that this “conspiracy mentality” correlates with particular personality traits, including low levels of trust and an increased need for closure, along with feelings of powerlessness, low self-esteem, paranoid thinking, and a need to feel unique. Exposure to media that endorse conspiracies increases beliefs.
There seems to be an element of narcissism in the thinking of many anti- vaxxers - i.e. if i infect you, that's your problem - not mine. In my "opinion" we all live in a society in close approximation to hundreds of other human beings and we have an obligation to avoid doing any harm to them if at all possible and sick human beings can definitely be a health menace to others - The deaths of many thousands the many epidemics of the past epidemics are an example. When an anti-vaxxer chooses to avoid vaccination and risk their own life, they also choose to risk the life of everyone they subsequently come in contact with.
I'm sure this will change nothing, But I, too feel I also have the right to share my "opinion" :)
 
Ruthanne said:
I'm very glad that I don't come to this particular forum of Senior Forums. I'm just commenting but I don't regularly read the posts in here. I think any sensitive person could feel that way. And most of us are sensitive to how others are treated among other things.

I don't have any requests or admonishments. People will be people and can behave well somee places and then let loose other places. I choose to keep out of this section.I like to feel good and being in some threads is depressing and I don't need that. I'm already on Prozac because of neurological imbalance. So I won't come here and possibly get tormented by nonsense.

The discussion of COVID and all that applies to it isn't worth me losing my PEACE of mind.
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Thank you for that reminder Ruthanne.
I have too many of my own issues, I shouldn’t be antagonizing myself getting into discussions that are controversial. I know this about myself but sometimes forget. A great reminder. I’m so glad you popped in. 😅
 
Raddragn said:
There seems to be a fair amount of confusion about the difference between opinion and fact. Opinion is not fact. it is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge: "I'm writing to voice my "opinion" on an issue of great importance" It can be based on fact or based on someone else's "opinion" (which is not necessarily based on fact - or could even be based on outright lies).
A fact, however is a thing that is known or proved to be true
Conspiracy theory content is emotionally laden and its alleged discovery can be gratifying. The evidentiary standards for corroborating conspiracy theories are typically weak, and they are usually resistant to correction. The survivability of conspiracy theories may be aided by psychological biases and by distrust of official sources. Exposure to media that endorse conspiracies increases belief.
It’s no surprise that so many people are currently in thrall to this narrative concerning the current pandemic. But studies show that some people are especially prone to these beliefs, even without the motivating uncertainty of a global health crisis. Researchers have found that this “conspiracy mentality” correlates with particular personality traits, including low levels of trust and an increased need for closure, along with feelings of powerlessness, low self-esteem, paranoid thinking, and a need to feel unique. Exposure to media that endorse conspiracies increases beliefs.
There seems to be an element of narcissism in the thinking of many anti- vaxxers - i.e. if i infect you, that's your problem - not mine. In my "opinion" we all live in a society in close approximation to hundreds of other human beings and we have an obligation to avoid doing any harm to them if at all possible and sick human beings can definitely be a health menace to others - The deaths of many thousands the many epidemics of the past epidemics are an example. When an anti-vaxxer chooses to avoid vaccination and risk their own life, they also choose to risk the life of everyone they subsequently come in contact with.
I'm sure this will change nothing, But I, too feel I also have the right to share my "opinion" :)
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Well said. (y)
 
PeppermintPatty said:
I don’t know. I’m probably considered a conspiracy theorist when it comes to conventional medicine. I look at what’s behind the motivation of why things are done a certain way and the money trail that’s left behind.

There’s plenty of crooked people in high places that rule our world; the government, religion, teachers, big corporations who run monopolies like pharma plus. There are a lot of false facts that stay that way for the benefit of others and not necessarily for the general public. Lastly I think there’s BS everywhere in the world including the US.
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I agree Follow the money If the government is pushing something heavily ( like a war) several people stand to make a lot of cash. Other problems like homelessness do not generate cash so virtually nothing is done--- although some cities are building or refurbishing places for homeless to live and get jobs and re-enter society but even then its NOT an empathetic move ( to a degree) sometimes someone is getting a cut. Just my 2 cents
 
PeppermintPatty said:
There are many respectable, intelligent people who didn’t get vaccinated for reasons of their own. We might not agree with it but they are entitled to their decision. Vaccines weren’t mandatory , meaning we had the choice to opt out and many did.

To date, there are many people I know personally who didn’t get vaccinated and doing very well. Some of my extended family are in that group.

Covid was horrible for all concerned. Not only were people dying , it caused a huge rift between family members, friends and associates. The world was truly divided and still is.

For whatever reasons people believe what they do, we will never know. According to statistics, mental health issues have risen to an all time high. Even the statistics for gun ownership has skyrocketed since the pandemic. Clearly ‘fear’ has devastating effects on our psyche and fear of this virus affected people of ALL ages.

Shouldn’t we keep this in mind when on a site discussing controversial topics? Shouldn’t we expect opinions that are way off track from the general population? We don’t know their personal background and why they think like they do but labelling them in derogatory terms isn’t helpful.

We can’t just shut down people whose opinions we disagree with. If they already feel ostracized, shaming them isn’t going to change their mind. It just divides and segregates us as members here sharing a forum to discuss topics and opinions.
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This is what the power people in charge want to happen--- they want us to fight each other so we're too busy to notice what THEY'RE doing
 
deaver said:
chic"
How do you define the difference between differing opinions and false opinions. The very nature of an opinion is that it is uniquely the individual's thoughts about a matter."
mmm.guess you didnt see the word false!
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Yes, I did see the word false. I fail to see how an "opinion" can be false. It's a personal individual outlook on a subject. No entity has the right to tell you what you should believe or censor or disparage you for an opinion/decision on the conclusion you have derived. Therefore an opinion cannot be false because it's just an individual's view on a subject.
 
When I hear a conspiracy theory or any comment for that matter I will consider it and see if I can use it for some good. For me it does not necessarily have to be a true or accurate statement to teach me something new. Doing this has enlightened me on many different subjects on many occasions by causing me to consider information I may not have ordinarily considered. Believing such things is a whole different matter but I will give it some thought. I do think that if a human being can think something up it is possible for it to come to pass.
 
SeniorBen said:
The problem isn't that people have opinions that deviate from that of the mainstream; it's that they use "facts" that aren't consistent with reality that they get from unreliable sources and they often insult those who don't agree with them and then play the victim.
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Either way, I don’t understand why others are getting angry at members here. I’m not sure what facts you are referring to or whose reality. Most people are bias and pick and choose information that matches their own reality or their own opinions. Most people pick mainstream opinions but not everyone does.

This doesn’t mean those that don’t are whacked out nut jobs. I’m not on any side here but do understand that there clearly are sides on the thread and to be honest, there is a lot of derogatory criticism getting thrown about here making it difficult to know who it’s actually getting directed at.

Having said all that this topic is far too controversial for me so I am bowing out.
 
chic said:
I feel the same dear. And in the past three years I've watched so called conspiracy theorists proven right about so many things, vaccine passports, digital ids, cashless societies, climate crises, etc.
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Well, when the Covid lockdown hit, we all kind of looked at each other, here, like, um... so the Preppers might have been onto something...
 
Medusa said:
Galileo was sentenced to life imprisonment (house arrest) for claiming the Earth orbits the Sun.
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The original conspiracy theorist!
Murrmurr said:
The term "conspiracy theory" itself is the subject of a conspiracy theory that claims the term was invented and used by the CIA in order to discredit critics of the Warren Commission and make them a target of ridicule.
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Ha! So conspiracy theories are a conspiracy theory! Actually Wikipedia says:

The earliest known usage was by the American author Charles Astor Bristed, in a letter to the editor published in The New York Times on January 11, 1863. He used it to refer to claims that British aristocrats were intentionally weakening the United States during the American Civil War in order to advance their financial interests.

And goes on to say:

The term "conspiracy theory" is itself the subject of a conspiracy theory, which posits that the term was popularized by the CIA in order to discredit conspiratorial believers, particularly critics of the Warren Commission, by making them a target of ridicule. In his 2013 book Conspiracy Theory in America, political scientist Lance deHaven-Smith wrote that the term entered everyday language in the United States after 1964, the year in which the Warren Commission published its findings on the Kennedy assassination, with The New York Times running five stories that year using the term.

Maybe its not such a useful term. People have always had differing opinions and interpretations of things. Sometimes with good reason and basis, sometimes not. We have also always tried to explain things in simple terms, sometimes too simple to be right. Just human nature.
 
Alligatorob said:
The original conspiracy theorist!

Ha! So conspiracy theories are a conspiracy theory! Actually Wikipedia says:

The earliest known usage was by the American author Charles Astor Bristed, in a letter to the editor published in The New York Times on January 11, 1863. He used it to refer to claims that British aristocrats were intentionally weakening the United States during the American Civil War in order to advance their financial interests.

And goes on to say:

The term "conspiracy theory" is itself the subject of a conspiracy theory, which posits that the term was popularized by the CIA in order to discredit conspiratorial believers, particularly critics of the Warren Commission, by making them a target of ridicule. In his 2013 book Conspiracy Theory in America, political scientist Lance deHaven-Smith wrote that the term entered everyday language in the United States after 1964, the year in which the Warren Commission published its findings on the Kennedy assassination, with The New York Times running five stories that year using the term.

Maybe its not such a useful term. People have always had differing opinions and interpretations of things. Sometimes with good reason and basis, sometimes not. We have also always tried to explain things in simple terms, sometimes too simple to be right. Just human nature.
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"too simple to be right" is a weird thing to say. Anything simply put is easily understood, imo.

I totally agree that "conspiracy theorist" isn't a useful term. It's usually extremely inflammatory. Definitely divisive.
 
Apparently WWII bomber pilots used to say that 'taking flak' meant that they were over the target; it appears that that expression has morphed into 'conspiracy theorist'.
 

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