Contemplating the vastness of the cosmos & is everything beyond reach?

bobcat

bobcat

Well-known Member
Location
Northern Calif
With the technology we’ve got, even our fastest probe, Voyager 1, would need around seventy-five thousand years to reach the nearest star. That’s longer than all of recorded human history. The idea of an interstellar commute suddenly feels a little ridiculous, unless you want to make it a generational journey.

Propelling even a small ship to near-light speed would take more energy than humanity produces in thousands of years. The math alone makes it daunting. Our entire civilization isn’t yet capable of paying the cosmic energy bill that such a trip demands. Is it hopeless to even consider?

If Alpha Centauri is just 4 light years away, that means any message sent at the speed of light would take 4 years to get there, and another 4 years to even get a reply. so almost a decade for communication. If it was sent to another system which is only a hundred light years away (Which is comparatively close), it would take 200 years for a reply. Is serious space travel a futile endeavor?
 

-Oy- said:
With current technology - yes.

However - just look how far technology has come in the last few decades. And technological growth seems to exponential. So watch this space. (See what I did there?)
Click to expand...
My view of the future of technology: Genetically encoded commercials.
;)
* Advisement* Don't listen to me-- no one else does.
 
I saw somewhere a radical plan for a 36 mile long spacecraft design that would be for multi-generational travel. Many generations would live and die on the spaceship before it reaches a destination, perhaps a thousand years from now. It would be like a traveling city with a thousand or so inhabitants. People would go to work, go to the park, go out dining and dancing, etc..., and life would continue as normal as possible, except your city is hurtling through space. Good luck to the budget committee getting that expenditure through.
 
-Oy- said:
With current technology - yes.

However - just look how far technology has come in the last few decades. And technological growth seems to exponential. So watch this space. (See what I did there?)
Click to expand...
True, the same fuel that gets us to Mars, won't even scratch the surface for interstellar travel. Antimatter stores energy more tightly than any chemical fuel, which makes it tempting for space travel. The production process consumes tremendous power though, so a realistic fuel load becomes many times heavier than the ship itself. In plain terms, it is like transporting a mountain to light a single match.
It's those damn laws of physics.
 
bobcat said:
I saw somewhere a radical plan for a 36 mile long spacecraft design that would be for multi-generational travel. Many generations would live and die on the spaceship before it reaches a destination, perhaps a thousand years from now. It would be like a traveling city with a thousand or so inhabitants. People would go to work, go to the park, go out dining and dancing, etc..., and life would continue as normal as possible, except your city is hurtling through space. Good luck to the budget committee getting that expenditure through.
Click to expand...
Let's say it actually happens-- what will these folks evolve into ? BTW the series Red Dwarf is entertainment, NOT A DOCUMENTARY!
 
bobcat said:
Propelling even a small ship to near-light speed would take more energy than humanity produces in thousands of years. The math alone makes it daunting. Our entire civilization isn’t yet capable of paying the cosmic energy bill that such a trip demands. Is it hopeless to even consider?
Click to expand...
Boggles the mind to think when a person dies they join a creator somewhere out side our universe. Wonder how long that takes.
 
Knight said:
Boggles the mind to think when a person dies they join a creator somewhere out side our universe. Wonder how long that takes.
Click to expand...
I would assume you mean the mind and not the body. If that's the case, and if it's true, then I would imagine they are joined before death, so no wait time.
 
bobcat said:
I would assume you mean the mind and not the body. If that's the case, and if it's true, then I would imagine they are joined before death, so no wait time.
Click to expand...
The mind, the soul or whatever is supposed to leave the body to travel to outside our universe.
 
Our spiritual journey which I think is eternal, and our physical, material exploration of interstellar space, are two different conversations.
That being said, I also think that the exploration of our neighboring stellar neighborhood will of course be influenced and inspired by our
spiritual consciousness.

To stay focused on physical interstellar travel, yes it seems to be beyond our practical technological reach.........at the moment and probably for
the near future too. Fair enough, so let's remember and keep alive our ambition for continuing our species' propensity for exploration.
Generation ships? Near lightspeed travel? Bring quantum physics phenomena into the zone of manipulated technology? Yeah! let's keep the flame of exploration alive!

I would expect that our stellar exploration deeds are probably several steps in our future. So let's pursue the theories of interstellar travel, experiment with the emerging technologies and while we're at it, how about discontinuing our degrading of our own planet's various ecosystems and refraining from territorial, political and theological/dogmatic inspired warfare?
 
Knight said:
The mind, the soul or whatever is supposed to leave the body to travel to outside our universe.
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Well, from what little I know of astral projection, the experience isn't limited by physics.
As to travel outside the universe, I haven't heard anything about that, so no help here.
 
bobcat said:
Well, from what little I know of astral projection, the experience isn't limited by physics.
As to travel outside the universe, I haven't heard anything about that, so no help here.
Click to expand...
Travel outside the universe is logic based. This is most recognized as our universe beginning.
Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com › genesis

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.​

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed

Logic is if I want to make a box aka (our universe) I have to be outside to do that.

Don't think astral projection would apply since that is intentional not likely once dead
 
bobcat said:
With the technology we’ve got, even our fastest probe, Voyager 1, would need around seventy-five thousand years to reach the nearest star. That’s longer than all of recorded human history. The idea of an interstellar commute suddenly feels a little ridiculous, unless you want to make it a generational journey.

Propelling even a small ship to near-light speed would take more energy than humanity produces in thousands of years. The math alone makes it daunting. Our entire civilization isn’t yet capable of paying the cosmic energy bill that such a trip demands. Is it hopeless to even consider?

If Alpha Centauri is just 4 light years away, that means any message sent at the speed of light would take 4 years to get there, and another 4 years to even get a reply. so almost a decade for communication. If it was sent to another system which is only a hundred light years away (Which is comparatively close), it would take 200 years for a reply. Is serious space travel a futile endeavor?
Click to expand...

I am not convinced man will ever land on Mars. As much as I'd love it to be true.

In the end, there's simply no point. Adding humans to the mix just complicates things, and increases the risk exponentially.

Instead, robotics will reach a point where it is by far the better option. I think we'll land robotic "beings" on Mars, and beyond.

The only way using actual humans makes sense is if we discover faster than light travel, or how to create wormholes, etc. Multi-generational flight is great sci-fi, but isn't something we should consider. Well, other than if our planet is about to die.
 
Knight said:
Travel outside the universe is logic based. This is most recognized as our universe beginning.
Bible Hub
https://biblehub.com › genesis

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.​

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed

Logic is if I want to make a box aka (our universe) I have to be outside to do that.

Don't think astral projection would apply since that is intentional not likely once dead
Click to expand...
With due respect, I believe you have some flawed reasoning going on there, but I will be respectful and not pick it apart.
It works for you, and that's fine by me.
 
VaughanJB said:
I am not convinced man will ever land on Mars. As much as I'd love it to be true.

In the end, there's simply no point. Adding humans to the mix just complicates things, and increases the risk exponentially.

Instead, robotics will reach a point where it is by far the better option. I think we'll land robotic "beings" on Mars, and beyond.

The only way using actual humans makes sense is if we discover faster than light travel, or how to create wormholes, etc. Multi-generational flight is great sci-fi, but isn't something we should consider. Well, other than if our planet is about to die.
Click to expand...
Agree with everything there, although I do think it's likely a human or two will go to Mars in the 2030's.
Astronauts are already training for it, but a lot can go wrong in 5 years or so.
 
bobcat said:
Agree with everything there, although I do think it's likely a human or two will go to Mars in the 2030's.
Astronauts are already training for it, but a lot can go wrong in 5 years or so.
Click to expand...

What's interesting is that the ultimate legacy for man will be it's robotics, and AI. We're simply flimsy, fleshy beings hanging on some bones with a finite life. In space terms, we travel very very poorly. We need a lot of care. The supplies we need to support ourselves outside the solar system dwarf our own body weight.
 
From where we stand today, interstellar travel looks exactly like sailing across an ocean once looked to people who had never seen a boat. It looks impossible because we haven’t built the tools yet.

Voyager 1 is essentially a late-70s station wagon with a radio dish. It isn’t representative of what future propulsion might look like.

Energy is the real bottleneck. Here are a few things being considered for development ...

Laser sail propulsion (Breakthrough Starshot)
Fusion propulsion
Antimatter catalyzed propulsion
Black hole radiation drives, beamed energy networks, inertial confinement drives

The real question isn’t whether interstellar travel will be possible.
It’s whether we can endure long enough to see the technologies develop.
And if we can accomplish that goal, the question might become, why go anywhere else.
 
Imagine the universe as a giant fabric stretched flat. If you want to go from point A to point B across that fabric, normally you’d have to travel across the surface which is slow, long, and currently limited by light-speed.

But if you fold the fabric, suddenly points that were far apart become adjacent. You don’t cross the distance—you jump because the distance itself has been reduced.

Perhaps worm holes or black holes allow the folding of space.
 
bobcat said:
I saw somewhere a radical plan for a 36 mile long spacecraft design that would be for multi-generational travel. Many generations would live and die on the spaceship before it reaches a destination, perhaps a thousand years from now. It would be like a traveling city with a thousand or so inhabitants. People would go to work, go to the park, go out dining and dancing, etc..., and life would continue as normal as possible, except your city is hurtling through space. Good luck to the budget committee getting that expenditure through.
Click to expand...
I watched a number of SciFi movies with that plot theme. I don't see that as being likely, sending living humans. More to the point would be to send frozen human embryos that would be tended to by robotic neonatal nurses. Of course, this is a familiar SciFi story as well.
 
Naturally said:
The real question isn’t whether interstellar travel will be possible.
It’s whether we can endure long enough to see the technologies develop.
And if we can accomplish that goal, the question might become, why go anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Well, we've got a billion years to figure it out, because after that Earth is going to expel us.
 
The universe is endless to the best of man’s knowledge. As far as man knows, there is no physical boundary to the end of the universe, so there is no need to make an attempt to try to reach it. What lies beyond the furtherest point as we know, which is 46.5 billion miles, will always remain “The Unknown” or “The Abyss.” What would be the point to knowing where the end is and if there is any life there if we would reach it?
 

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