Do we need constant war?

[Mike]

It is the only time that prices drop, I believe,
also incomes!

But maybe not in modern times.

Mike.

 

[stephenPE]

Perpetual war. I read that recently. We always seem to have a dangerous enemy. Always half way around the world. We all know oil was the reason for many after the Vietnam thing. Cold wars. And the $$$$ we spend on it. The saying is "I know the weapons that will be used in WW3 but the next one will be with sticks and stones.......

 

[David777]

OP's thread Title is:

Do we need constant war?

Should be:

Do Tyrants, Greedy Wealth Seekers, Slavemasters, and Warmongers need constant war?

 

[squatting dog]

The last USA declared war was in WW2. Here are the undeclared wars where Americans have died since
then:
Impressive... ain't it.


1947–1949: Intervening in the Greek civil war
1947–1970: Meddling in Italy's elections and supporting anti-communism activities
1945-1949: Intervening in China’s civil war and establishing Taiwan
1948: Supporting anti-government forces in Costa Rica's civil war

1949–1953: Supporting anti-communism activities in Albania
1949: Staging a coup in Syria (it was CIA’s first coup)
1950–1953: Korean War
1952: Intervening in the Egyptian Revolution of 1952
1953: Orchestrated a coup in Iran and overthrew the democratically elected leader

1954: Invaded Guatemala and installed a puppet
1956–1957: Plotting a coup in Syria
1957–1959: Supporting a coup in Indonesia
1958: Creating a crisis in Lebanon
1960–1961: Supporting a coup in the Congo

1960: Meddling in Laos’ reforms
1961: Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba
1961–1975: Supporting civil war and OPIUM TRADE in Laos (look up “Air America”)
1961–1964: Supporting anti-government activities in Brazil

1963: Supporting civil strife in Iraq
1963: Supporting riots in Ecuador
1963–1975: Vietnam War
1964: Intervening in Congo’s rebellion (and bombing)
1965–1966: Intervening in Dominica's civil war

1965–1967: Installing, arming and aiding fascist Indonesian military government’s massacre of
communists (2-3 million killed)
1966: Engineering an insurgency in Ghana
1966–1969: Creating conflicts in the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), which is a region on the Korean
peninsula that demarcates North Korea from South Korea
1966–1967: Supporting an insurgency in Bolivia

1967: Intervening in the change of the Greek government
1967–1975: Intervening in Cambodia's civil war
1970: Meddling in Oman's domestic affairs
1970–1973: Aided a military coup in Chile (overthrew democratically elected and popular
progressive leader, Salvador Allende)

1970–1973: Orchestrating a coup in Cambodia
1971: Supporting a coup in Bolivia
1972–1975: Assisting anti-government forces in Iraq
1976: Supporting a coup in Argentina
1976–1992: Intervening in Angola's domestic affairs

1977–1988: Supporting a coup in Pakistan
1979–1993: Supporting anti-government forces in Cambodia
1979–1989: Arming, funding, training the Mujahedin in Afghanistan. This led to Al Qaeda and the
largest network of Islamic terrorist groups in the world.
1979–1989: Used Saddam Hussein to wage a proxy war against Iraq. Funded and armed Saddam for ten
years.

1980–1989: Financed anti-government Solidarity trade union in Poland
1980–1992: Meddling in El Salvador's civil war
1981: Attacking Libya in Gulf of Sidra
1981–1982: Engineering regime change in Chad
1982–1984: Participating in a multilateral intervention in Lebanon

1982–1989: Supporting anti-government forces in Nicaragua (the U.S. armed fascists, death squads,
drug lords etc.)
1983: Invading Grenada
1986: Invading Gulf of Sidra, Libya
1986: Bombing Libya

1988: Shooting down an Iranian airliner **
1988: Sending troops to Honduras
1989: Attacking Libya in Tobruk
1989: Intervening in the Philippines' domestic affairs
1989–1990: Invading Panama

1990–1991: Persian Gulf War, Part 1
1991: Intervening in Haiti's elections
1991–2003: Leading the enforcement action to establish a no-fly zone in Iraq
1992–1995: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the first time
1992–1995: Intervening in the Bosnian War

1994–1995: Sending troops to Haiti
1996: Supporting a coup in Iraq
1997: Sending troops to Albania
1997: Sending troops to Sierra Leone
1998–1999: Waging the Kosovo War

1998: Launching cruise missile attacks on Sudan and Afghanistan
1998–1999: Sending troops to Kenya and Tanzania
2001–present: War on Afghanistan
2002: Sending troops to Côte d'Ivoire
2003: Orchestrating color revolution in Georgia and installing a pro-US government

2003–present: Iraq War, Part 2
2004–now: Inciting wars between Pakistan and Afghanistan in their contiguous areas
2004: Orchestrating color revolution in Ukraine and installing a pro-US government
2006–2007: Supporting Fatah, a Palestinian political and military organization, in overthrowing
the elected government of Hamas
2007–present: Intervening in Somalia's civil war for the second time

2009: Supporting a coup in Honduras
2011: Supporting anti-government forces in Libya
2011–present: Arming, funding, training jihadists, Al Qaeda, and “moderate rebels” in Syria.
Occasionally bombing Syria. And occupying the oil-rich parts of Syria.
2011–2017: Carrying out military operations in Uganda

2014: Orchestrating a color revolution in Ukraine and overthrowing a democratically elected leader.
(second time ignoring the will of the people).
2014–present: Leading the intervention actions in Iraq
2015–now: Arming, directing Saudi Arabia's participation in Yemen's civil war
2017-2019: Attempting regime change in Venezuela

2012-2020: Funding, orchestrating riots in Hong Kong.
2019: Supporting a military coup in Bolivia
1990s-now: Funding Uyghur separatists and trying to break the Xinjiang province off China.

 

[Mitch86]

War is like death. Both are unpleasant but very necessary for the survival of the human species. The alternative is extinction of the human species.

 

[OldOld]

Here are some of the human natures that certainly result in wars: hatred, greed, selfishness, aggression.

 

[ChiroDoc]

The last USA declared war was in WW2. Here are the undeclared wars where Americans have died since
then:
...

Quite a bit of research there, SD! Seeing it all laid out like that really puts it into perspective.

 

[Murrmurr]

It is the only time that prices drop, I believe,
also incomes!

But maybe not in modern times.

Mike.

Consumerism steers pricing. Consumerism controls the market when it's allowed to; when capitalism works as intended.

But I believe you're onto how it works "in modern times," am I right? If there's something in it for them, members of Parliaments and Congresses do all they can to influence the market, or even completely control it, making consumerism irrelevant and capitalism corrupted.

 

[Elsie]

OP's thread Title is:

Do we need constant war?

Should be:

Do Tyrants, Greedy Wealth Seekers, Slavemasters, and Warmongers need constant war?

Done to get control of, hands on what other nations have that those monsters want for themselves/people.

 

[Murrmurr]

If your country is constantly militarily threatened by another, then you're constantly at war.

If your country is only occasionally threatened, then you're likely to enter into an occasional war.

In defense of your country, sometimes a war is necessary.

 

[Ted01]

I don't think that it's a matter of people Needing War, but rather that as imperfect people, we will always have war.

And I believe that's inescapable.

 

[David777]

As I've posted, most of we modern era humans don't need nor want war. But in order for civilizations to change enough for that to happen worldwide, requires some drastic basic changes to our civilizations that have brought us to this brink of utter destruction to ourselves and to this fragile planetary paradise of life. Most humans are not innately evil, bullies, or warmongers. From birth, our neuroplastic brains are empty containers ready to be filled with experiences, learning, attitudes, and behaviors.

Rather, flawed others, societies, cultures, religions, their civilizations, and social environments make them so. Yes, we are to blame for what we become. Raise children intelligently and that can produce peaceful, productive, satisfied intelligent adults with the whole universe our pearl. With AI medical science can potentially greatly lengthen healthy fit years of our lives significantly prolonging lifespans. A few ideas below as a start. The real difficulty is how to make change without selfish, greedy, evil doers now in control, continuing to dominate.

• Humans need to drastically reduce population to levels people and countries are not fighting over resources so there is an abundance for all people and health for its life.
• Humans need to work towards a long term sustainable environment. We have the science, technology, and understanding now, to do that given the will to do so. Our planet could and should be a paradise.
• Humans need to understand and accept that individuals as we find ourselves now, are generally not equal in many dimensions nor is life is fair. The less capable for the sake of humanity need to help and share with those less so. In the future, average humans could be more equal but for now in this current era, humans from widely varying historic situations, and unequal locations, have suddenly within a few generations been thrown together into world wide competitive chaos. We are just now via worldwide telecommunication suddenly in contact with each other.
• We need not fight over food resources nor given science and technology damage the planet doing so.
• Likewise given a much lower population, we need not fight over a long list of resources.
• Humans need to channel their innate competitiveness into sports and games rather than conflict.
• We need to learn to enjoy and value our lives in productive meaningful ways without filling our brains with destructive pleasurable drugs.
• We need to come to understand then stop and prevent insane, divisive mating and sexual practices.

 

[VaughanJB]

There is absolutely no time in history when some weren't trying to kill others. In our own time, war migrated from Korea, to Vietnam, to Iraq, to Bosnia, to Afghanistan, to the Middle East. Do we need constant war?

Need? No. But if you think of capitalism in terms of colonialism, one can't really see much of an alternative. Add in religion, and you have an explosive mix.

For example (and it's only one): China. I could say a lot, but the question for this post is - why is the US obsessed with China? The answer lies in several areas, but it's worth remembering that China has risen in importance in large part for its role in capitalist ideals. There is a huge market there, and companies want to exploit it. Along with that, there's lots of cheap labor. A win-win to the capitalist dream.

Of course, manufacturing is moving out of China right now (a temporary move, imo). But where is going to? Even CHEAPER labor.

 

[Murrmurr]

Need? No. But if you think of capitalism in terms of colonialism, one can't really see much of an alternative. Add in religion, and you have an explosive mix.

For example (and it's only one): China. I could say a lot, but the question for this post is - why is the US obsessed with China? The answer lies in several areas, but it's worth remembering that China has risen in importance in large part for its role in capitalist ideals. There is a huge market there, and companies want to exploit it. Along with that, there's lots of cheap labor. A win-win to the capitalist dream.

Of course, manufacturing is moving out of China right now (a temporary move, imo). But where is going to? Even CHEAPER labor.

China's experiment with capitalism died with Supreme Leader Deng Xiaoping. The current leader, Xi Jinping, is an anti-capitalist. As well, he's obsessed with the US, not the other way around. Xi considers the US his greatest enemy because the US recognizes Taiwan as an independent nation and, more recently, because of the new tariffs.

Xi allows American industries to operate in China only when it benefits the CCP in some significant way. They are little capitalist islands in a communist country, and the only benefit they are to regular Chinese people is job availability. No Chinese industry is Chinese-owned, it all belongs to the CCP, and when the Chinese economy isn't doing so well, the workers do not get paid. For example, currently, BYD, the EV car manufacturer, owes its workers 6 months of back pay and the national bank hasn't paid its employees in 3 months. But it is illegal in China to be unemployed, so those workers are hanging in there.

How? The Chinese are obsessed with saving and acquiring/accumulating credit. They don't spend one single yuen unnecessarily. Marriage is way down because they still have a dowry tradition (groom's family pays), and with the economy being shaky, men's parents aren't willing to blow tens of thousands on a chick who isn't pulling in millions. There are other reasons, too, but they're irrelevant to the topic. (and it isn't the shortage of women)

Xi's CCP is no friend to America and no lover of capitalism. Interestingly, Xi's days as Supreme Leader are numbered. All but one of the top CCP officials see the benefits of capitalism and are in favor of becoming at least a partially capitalist society, and the one who isn't has been placed under house-arrest - allowed to function as an official, but with limits and under extreme scrutiny 24/7.

There were 2 other dissenters, but they're dead. Recently.

 

[Murrmurr]

@VaughanJB

To explain this part "Xi's days as Supreme Leader are numbered. All but one of the top CCP officials see the benefits of capitalism..." - Xi had a stroke late last year...Nov, I think,...then 2 heart attacks this year and possibly a 3rd. Those top CCP officials have taken advantage of his poor health, and basically usurped his authority, to a degree. He is under house arrest, but allowed to function as Head of State, or at least appear as HofS in certain circumstances, like when visiting dignitaries in other countries.

Meanwhile, those top CCP officials promised Xi a graceful stepping down from power but have to figure out ways to make sure he doesn't ever try to take his power back at any point. They're also quibbling amongst themselves about who will replace Xi, whether or not to ever regain Taiwan, and what direction they want to take China to ensure a prosperous future. Plus, Xi's wife is causing all kinds of problems.

 

[mrstime]

It seems to be part of our DNA.

It doesn’t matter if it’s nations at war or old men in their boxer shorts screaming at kids to get off their lawn, we are very territorial by nature and we all seem to believe that our values and the way we live is the way that everyone else should live.

View attachment 432636

The US was founded in war. War with the Brits, now of course you are friendly with the Brits but enemies with many countries. It seems that there is no peace for the US. Live by the gun, die by the gun.

 

[Richardxbt]

All wars are bankers wars - watch the money.

 

[Mitch86]

Wars keep the news and history interesting. Wars are also the basis of chess at Chess.com and Civilization VI at Steam.com. I play those games every day. Without wars our planet would go extinct out of boredom.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Wars keep the news and history interesting. Wars are also the basis of chess at Chess.com and Civilization VI at Steam.com. I play those games every day. Without wars our planet would go extinct out of boredom.

No it would not. There’s still plenty of problems if there weren’t wars for people to deal with.

 

[WhatInThe]

Not need but a want. The want that leads to gang beefs and wars is the same for countries. Comes back to territory and power

 

[officerripley]

All wars are bankers wars - watch the money.

Indeed:

"[Every war is] always the same war. Only the names of the dead change. It’s always about one thing: which group of rich men get to divvy up the spoils.
~~from The Atlantis Gene by A. G. Riddle

 

[Paladin1950]

We humans allow seasons where certain animals can be hunted legally to prevent over population. Maybe some greater power has us warring with each other and getting diseases, to reduce our population. What would the world be like if no one ever died in all of the world wars and and from diseases like cancer or Covid?

 

[officerripley]

Maybe some greater power has us warring with each other and getting diseases, to reduce our population.

Whoa, that'd be a pretty cruel, bloodthirsty power, yuck.

 

[VaughanJB]

China's experiment with capitalism died with Supreme Leader Deng Xiaoping.

There are two parts to this (at least). One is their market specifically. The second is global influence. China is a major trading partner with Africa, and they fund a lot of infrastructure projects, and that's without the loans they've given. Africa is in serious debt to China, and that is used to exert control over ports, transport, etc. China supplies arms to Africa, and are expanding their military presence. China hold $750bn of US debt, second only to Japan.

In other words, their having a capitalist driven market place isn't close to happening. However, they're quickly buying influence abroad.

China's experiment with capitalism died with Supreme Leader Deng Xiaoping. The current leader, Xi Jinping, is an anti-capitalist. As well, he's obsessed with the US, not the other way around. Xi considers the US his greatest enemy because the US recognizes Taiwan as an independent nation and, more recently, because of the new tariffs.

We'll agree to disagree here. I don't think China is any more obsessed with the US than vice-versa at all. And while the US recognizes Taiwan as an independent nation, let's not pretend that's not for strategic reasons.

Xi allows American industries to operate in China only when it benefits the CCP in some significant way.

And vice versa with what's going on now. So, is it a legitimate act, or a heinous one? Or is it simply part of the trade negotiation between nations?

But it is illegal in China to be unemployed, so those workers are hanging in there.

Look, I'm no fan of China and how it does things. It's a very different system to the West, and a lot of exploitation and nepotism goes on. On the other hand, the West has been part of that exploitation by moving there to get cheap labor. The shoes we wear, the shirts, the cups we drink from, are likely from China. This has allowed companies to post greater profits, and pay dividends, putting that money into the pockets of westerners. We don't care about that as much because it's easily explained in our system - but for the people it does no good.

Also, it is not illegal to be unemployed in China. Not sure where you got that from. Mind, I'd not like to work there, let alone be unemployed there!!

 

[VaughanJB]

We humans allow seasons where certain animals can be hunted legally to prevent over population. Maybe some greater power has us warring with each other and getting diseases, to reduce our population. What would the world be like if no one ever died in all of the world wars and and from diseases like cancer or Covid?

If you think in terms of resources, and strategic importance, and you have a good idea of why wars happen. IMO.