Do we need constant war?

[Murrmurr]

There are two parts to this (at least). One is their market specifically. The second is global influence. China is a major trading partner with Africa, and they fund a lot of infrastructure projects, and that's without the loans they've given. Africa is in serious debt to China, and that is used to exert control over ports, transport, etc. China supplies arms to Africa, and are expanding their military presence. China hold $750bn of US debt, second only to Japan.

In other words, their having a capitalist driven market place isn't close to happening. However, they're quickly buying influence abroad.



We'll agree to disagree here. I don't think China is any more obsessed with the US than vice-versa at all. And while the US recognizes Taiwan as an independent nation, let's not pretend that's not for strategic reasons.



And vice versa with what's going on now. So, is it a legitimate act, or a heinous one? Or is it simply part of the trade negotiation between nations?



Look, I'm no fan of China and how it does things. It's a very different system to the West, and a lot of exploitation and nepotism goes on. On the other hand, the West has been part of that exploitation by moving there to get cheap labor. The shoes we wear, the shirts, the cups we drink from, are likely from China. This has allowed companies to post greater profits, and pay dividends, putting that money into the pockets of westerners. We don't care about that as much because it's easily explained in our system - but for the people it does no good.

Also, it is not illegal to be unemployed in China. Not sure where you got that from. Mind, I'd not like to work there, let alone be unemployed there!!

Addressing illegal to be unemployed first; In China, people are required to work. If you don't have a job, you must be registered at a university or training school.

Your job doesn't have to be full-time, which, in China, is 9 to 15hrs/day, 6 days/wk, and you don't have to work for a business, you can be employed by your parent as their care-giver, but you must show receipts and you have to earn at least ...I think it's 600 yuen/annual right now. But you cannot "lie flat" as they say in China, unless you can prove you are still a relative's dependent. And you can be that until both parents are dead; there's no age cap. Unemployment can get you time in jail. And after serving your time, you are required to either get a job or meet any of those other requirements (i.e., register for university, etc).

I've been studying China in-depth for about 10 years. It was a casual interest at first and then it became kind of an obsession. I get my information from scholarly men and women who escaped China, a few who still live there but are friendly to westerners, and a handful of escapees or whose parents are escapees and aren't scholars but just regular people.

One of the things all of them have been talking about for the past few months is that Xi Jinping has lost power and authority. This month, they said he was placed under house-arrest, and yesterday they said the CCP finally officially announced Xi's loss of power to the Chinese public, and so, the world.

Well, they announced it CCP-style, saying that a new committee has been created that will oversee basically everything, and that it has 5 branches: business, education, military, judicial, and governmental. Xi was not named as the head of any of them, which is extremely unusual...unheard of, in fact. It signals definitively that Xi is no longer the Supreme Leader. He'll still make decisions, but they won't be his decisions.

This is a coup - you might call it a "soft coup", since Xi isn't in prison or dead or exiled (yet) - and it was led by a military general named Zhang Youxia (which sounds like "Johnny O'Shaw" when they say it fast...as they do). He pulled it off in cooperation with 4 other top CCP officials plus a few "red prince-lings" (extremely wealthy sons of the original Chinese communist revolutionaries).

(cont'd in next post)

 

[Murrmurr]

@VaughanJB

A new Supreme Leader hasn't been named yet. "Johnny O'Shaw" and 3 of the other 4 officials are working on (arguing over) what direction they want to take China and what they want to do about Taiwan. One thing they all agree on is "opening up" China.

This is why it was them who negotiated a trade deal with the US president just a few days ago. The president promised to keep certain details a secret until these officials let him know whether they've chosen a new national leader or decided to just keep the new committee in place for a while....like a year or more. I'm guessing that's probably because they haven't decided whether or not to go democratic and have a real election, or just pick someone themselves (and force Xi to announce it).

None of the 4 really wants the job, and all of them are totally paranoid they're going to be assassinated very soon whether they take the job or not. Things are really scary at the top of the CCP right now. But things are definitely looking up for the Chinese people. I'm sure it will be a really rough transition no matter what, but I'm happy for them, honestly. I mean, I don't see China coming out worse than it was under Xi...not ultimately, anyway.

 

[Della]

Can you imagine how boring history would be if there never were any wars? The pages of history are written in blood. Without wars no one would even bother to read any history. Even the games I play like chess and Civilization VI are about wars.

History class, with all it's stories of wars bored me to death. If biology class hadn't taught me better I would have thought we didn't have any women in the past 10,000 years. Just a few exceptions like Cleopatra and a couple of queens.

So no, Mitch, I would not have found history boring without wars, instead I would have paid attention, if I had a little more information about what the women were doing while men were out killing each other so some old dude could have more power and money.

 

[Murrmurr]

They say war is good for the economy. If so, that's the ONLY thing it's good for.

Throughout history, wars have created new societies. The majority of them have been stronger, more productive societies, improving the lives of the people, often hugely improving their lives. In some cases war resulted in organizing farmland, expanding trade, or freeing up the people so they could run a business, invent things, be more productive, or resulted in the building of schools, libraries, hospitals, roads, and ports. There's also been the benefit of security against future wars.

So, yes, more often than not, war is good for the economy, but there's often been a multitude of other benefits, too. That's certainly true of some of the wars in recent history...like the last 80 years or so.

 

[Murrmurr]

War is like death. Both are unpleasant but very necessary for the survival of the human species. The alternative is extinction of the human species.

Yes! There have been numerous genocides and attempted genocides of people of a specific nationality, ethnicity, or religion throughout known history. War was necessary for their survival.

 

[VaughanJB]

Addressing illegal to be unemployed first; In China, people are required to work. If you don't have a job, you must be registered at a university or training school.

My look doesn't agree with you. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Overview of Social Benefits in China

I confess, this isn't a subject I've researched deeply, but I can't find anything right now that agrees with you.

We'll see what happens in China. My hope is that the people find freedom equivalent to what we enjoy in the West.

 

[Murrmurr]

My look doesn't agree with you. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Overview of Social Benefits in China

I confess, this isn't a subject I've researched deeply, but I can't find anything right now that agrees with you.

We'll see what happens in China. My hope is that the people find freedom equivalent to what we enjoy in the West.

Any statistics, charts, and reports that the CCP puts out is totally unreliable. Workers and employers do pay into certain benefits, but not all workers qualify for collecting them, and even when they do, they often don't get them for many years. Additionally, the CCP can sweep those benefit accounts to use for their own purposes, and they have, many times, without paying it back. Complain about it, and you could find yourself in trouble.

Here's a few sources to check out if you want:
The Epoch Times
Lie's Real Talk
China Insights
Digging Into China

and I know a few more if you're interested.

 

[VaughanJB]

Any statistics, charts, and reports that the CCP puts out is totally unreliable. Workers and employers do pay into certain benefits, but not all workers qualify for collecting them, and even when they do, they often don't get them for many years. Additionally, the CCP can sweep those benefit accounts to use for their own purposes, and they have, many times, without paying it back. Complain about it, and you could find yourself in trouble.

Here's a few sources to check out if you want:
The Epoch Times
Lie's Real Talk
China Insights
Digging Into China

and I know a few more if you're interested.

There's a great channel on Youtube I watch - it's called The China Show.

Corruption is rife in China, of course.

 

[Murrmurr]

There's a great channel on Youtube I watch - it's called The China Show.

Corruption is rife in China, of course.

I'll check out that channel; thanks.

On the topic of corruption, it's terribly sad that when the CCP took over, its main goal was to totally erase China's 4,000 year-old culture. That's why the CCP comes down so hard on members of Falun Gong, who practice the old traditions and discuss old philosophies. It's widely believed that a lot of those people's organs were harvested after they were sent to prison. I've never seen any confirmation of that, but organ harvesting is a hushed practice.

Anyway, the old traditions included the seven ways, or something like that...ethics, harmony, compassion, respect for parents and ancestors, duty to family, leaders, and society, and self-cultivation / personal growth. In 75 years, the CCP completely erased all that, and urban people especially think nothing of stealing, cheating, and lying, corruption among city officials and police is just an everyday thing, you can smack your wife around in public and no one cares, you can't leave your moped more than a few feet away from you...

I'm not saying there aren't good people in China, but it's kind of every-man-for-himself there, particularly in the cities, and that's mainly because of lost culture. (imo)

Taiwan has preserved China's old ways and traditions, and celebrate them openly. If you think about it, Taiwan is actually the real original China. Taiwan's official name is the Republic of China (ROC), and when the CCP over-threw China's gov't back in 1949, ROC officials, their families, and a whole bunch of regular people fled to Taiwan. That's why it's so crazy when the CCP says China owns Taiwan. Technically, it's the other way around; the CCP stole China from the Chinese through extreme violence, bloodshed, and utter terror. And they've held onto it using the same methods.

 

[Ruthanne]

No we don't but there seems to be something innate in some people that make them think it's okay when it's really not. There are so many other things that can be done to promote non violence and change.

 

[VaughanJB]

No we don't but there seems to be something innate in some people that make them think it's okay when it's really not. There are so many other things that can be done to promote non violence and change.

The thing is, just because it has always been the way, doesn't mean it's the right way, the best way, or the only way. In fact, if I project human kind into the future in terms of 1000's of years, we're going to need humanity to find a way to work together, or at least alongside each other, in order to survive. IMO.

 

[Murrmurr]

The thing is, just because it has always been the way, doesn't mean it's the right way, the best way, or the only way. In fact, if I project human kind into the future in terms of 1000's of years, we're going to need humanity to find a way to work together, or at least alongside each other, in order to survive. IMO.

Call me an optimist, but I believe that can happen within 1,000 years. I believe it can happen within 100. People's personal growth needs to progress as quickly as technology has over the past 50, and in another 50, when advances in technology are so common they're dull, maybe we'll have little else to focus on than personal growth. Maybe it'll become a global movement.

 

[VaughanJB]

Call me an optimist, but I believe that can happen within 1,000 years. I believe it can happen within 100. People's personal growth needs to progress as quickly as technology has over the past 50, and in another 50, when advances in technology are so common they're dull, maybe we'll have little else to focus on than personal growth. Maybe it'll become a global movement.

I'll take people over tech any day.

I worked for an outsourcing company for a time news London Bridge. They had an elaborate test lab for applicants. They had a list of tasks that had to be passed before they'd even truly talk to anyone. Very regimented, very academic.

When I joined and hired my first people, I ignored the lab. I took some flack for it, being told I wasn't ensuring we got the right people. My response was, I got the right people. They asked how, and how I verified they were the right people - and the answer was simple an clear. I talked to them. I spent time with them. I knew pretty quickly whether someone was a fit or not, whether they'd work in the team. I was good at what I did (if I do say so myself), so that was the measure.

This allowed my to build a functioning department of people who knew the goals, knew how we operated, and got on with each other. It also meant, at times, that I hired potential, rather than the finished product, building a tiered team of teachers and learners. This was completely lost in the more rigid system they used.

In other words, sometimes you have to go with simple human interaction, gut feelings, and human intuition. If it failed, it was on me, but I was more comfortable with that, than I was academic test results. Far too much today is prescribed, but when you do that, creativity goes out the window. Hire human beings.