Do we really need municipal, county, and state governments?

Solutionist

New Member
Our entire world is changing, government budgets are very tight or underwater. Do we really need a city mayor and its supporting staff, a county Mayor and its commissioners, plus a State government? Anyone out there that could provide us with the numbers of billions of dollars we could save if we eliminated at least one of the three?
Food for thought.
 

might vary by state however ... in many states the rural county folks do not need or want some of the crazier ideas put out by the biggest city in the state etc....
It can happen to many states where for example governor only won a couple of highly populated counties while opponent won most of the state.....
many do NOT like the One size fits all mentality.... I see every day lately more and more people who seem to want that UNTIL it effects them.

in my state one city over regulates many things which as they are seeing people/ businesses and jobs fleeing to nearby city/ county without the overburden regs and rules ......
empty storefronts are providing more homeless space so win -win
 
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Our entire world is changing, government budgets are very tight or underwater. Do we really need a city mayor and its supporting staff, a county Mayor and its commissioners, plus a State government? Anyone out there that could provide us with the numbers of billions of dollars we could save if we eliminated at least one of the three?
Food for thought.
@Solutionist , Welcome to the forum. What would your solution be, and how could such a major restructuring be accomplished? How do you know that money would be "saved"? And if so, who's pockets would all that money go into?
 

IMO we could eliminate some layers of government and save money by consolidating the services provided by each layer of government into one more efficiently run department.

As an example, I'm not sure that we need city police, county sheriffs, state police, federal marshals, each with its own bureaucracy and support staff, or four highway departments, fire departments, purchasing departments, etc...

I also believe that the business of managing our various layers of government has become too complicated to rely on the limited experience of elected officials.

I believe that we should move towards people trained and experienced as managers similar to the way large corporations are run.

Maybe we still need someone to kiss the babies and cut the ribbons at various events but the day-to-day operations of government should be left to experienced professionals.
 
IMO we could eliminate some layers of government and save money by consolidating the services provided by each layer of government into one more efficiently run department.

As an example, I'm not sure that we need city police, county sheriffs, state police, federal marshals, each with its own bureaucracy and support staff, or four highway departments, fire departments, purchasing departments, etc...

I also believe that the business of managing our various layers of government has become too complicated to rely on the limited experience of elected officials.

I believe that we should move towards people trained and experienced as managers similar to the way large corporations are run.

Maybe we still need someone to kiss the babies and cut the ribbons at various events but the day-to-day operations of government should be left to experienced professionals.
all good points but you then leave items in UN-elected bureaucrats hands which takes power from the people .....votes are the power to keep government in check
if people had more input into hiring and firing said bureaucrats ........ then we would be talking
 
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One day, AI will be used to make decisions regarding government policies (that's AI as in artificial intelligence — not Al as in Allen. A capital 'i' looks just like a lower case 'L'). Using AI has the potential to eliminate a lot of inefficiencies and corruption, and make decisions based on what's best for society instead of what will boost corporate profits or help somebody get elected. It also has the potential to abate the destructive polarization that's tearing our country apart.

Then again, the U.S. refuses to even transition to the metric system, so moving to AI decision based government policies is a long ways down the road. And AI hasn't matured to the point where something like that would be feasible, although perhaps in another 20 years is will be.
 
If you are talking about major institutions, they usually develop for legitimate reasons. All major institutions are exposed to the greed and corruption of people.


But, generally, getting rid of them entirely is usually much worse than keeping an imperfect institution around.

If you are talking about local government, if local citizens really get involved in local government, they usually can have a profound impact, much much more so than on a state of federal level.

Why not consolidate local government into federal?


Generally, diversification allows for more independent control. So, if the federal government is excellent, then you get better services to local communities. But if the federal government is bad, the local communities get horrible service.

So, it is like hedging your bets against potential corruption.

Dr. Benjamin Barber wrote a book about using the power of local government to help change things and stop corruption.

https://www.amazon.com/If-Mayors-Ruled-World-Dysfunctional/dp/030016467X

(he was a professor at Rutgers University, here in NJ)
 
One day, AI will be used to make decisions regarding government policies (that's AI as in artificial intelligence — not Al as in Allen. A capital 'i' looks just like a lower case 'L'). Using AI has the potential to eliminate a lot of inefficiencies and corruption, and make decisions based on what's best for society instead of what will boost corporate profits or help somebody get elected. It also has the potential to abate the destructive polarization that's tearing our country apart.

Then again, the U.S. refuses to even transition to the metric system, so moving to AI decision based government policies is a long ways down the road. And AI hasn't matured to that point yet, although perhaps in another 20 years is will be.
Too dystopian for me, that.
 
Our entire world is changing, government budgets are very tight or underwater. Do we really need a city mayor and its supporting staff, a county Mayor and its commissioners, plus a State government? Anyone out there that could provide us with the numbers of billions of dollars we could save if we eliminated at least one of the three?
Food for thought.
No State government? If a new State wished to be admitted to the Union after the Original 13 they needed to submit their own State Constitution, and that details the workings of that Sovereign.
 
One day, AI will be used to make decisions regarding government policies (that's AI as in artificial intelligence )
Yes, maybe Alexa, or Siri, perhaps Google assistant. Perhaps a benevolent dictator like Kim Jong-un. I hope it's obvious that I'm kidding here... ;)
Human societies all have grown and expanded from tribes & kingdoms into the structures that exist today worldwide. It may be a libertarian fantasy to reduce / eliminate governing layers, but in the end the power merely shifts from one segment of the populace to another.
A really big asteroid strike or devastating global pandemic would accomplish the government reduction goal...of course a nuclear war would take care of everything as well.
The cockroaches would regain their title as the apex species!
 
If you are talking about major institutions, they usually develop for legitimate reasons. All major institutions are exposed to the greed and corruption of people.


But, generally, getting rid of them entirely is usually much worse than keeping an imperfect institution around.

If you are talking about local government, if local citizens really get involved in local government, they usually can have a profound impact, much much more so than on a state of federal level.

Why not consolidate local government into federal?


Generally, diversification allows for more independent control. So, if the federal government is excellent, then you get better services to local communities. But if the federal government is bad, the local communities get horrible service.

So, it is like hedging your bets against potential corruption.

Dr. Benjamin Barber wrote a book about using the power of local government to help change things and stop corruption.

https://www.amazon.com/If-Mayors-Ruled-World-Dysfunctional/dp/030016467X

(he was a professor at Rutgers University, here in NJ)
Interesting. I've heard of Benjamin Barber but never read any of his works. I'm going to watch one of his talks this evening to get a taste of what he was talking about and then maybe look into reading one of his books. We can have a discussion about it if it doesn't get political. :)

Too dystopian for me, that.
How would AI based policies be dystopian if decisions where made bases on what's best for society? Well, I guess at some point, somebody has to program in what is "best for society," which is where corruption might enter the equation (and algorithm).
 
Yes, maybe Alexa, or Siri, perhaps Google assistant. Perhaps a benevolent dictator like Kim Jong-un. I hope it's obvious that I'm kidding here... ;)
Human societies all have grown and expanded from tribes & kingdoms into the structures that exist today worldwide. It may be a libertarian fantasy to reduce / eliminate governing layers, but in the end the power merely shifts from one segment of the populace to another.
A really big asteroid strike or devastating global pandemic would accomplish the government reduction goal...of course a nuclear war would take care of everything as well.
The cockroaches would regain their title as the apex species!
Alexa, should we allow medium-density housing in wealthy neighborhoods? 🤣
 
There are many layers of governing between a person and a life well lived. Everything under one entity would be disastrous. Our Constitution may be a bit outdated in spots but the whole concept under good leadership can work well for most of us. Politics and commerce controlled by avaricious/greed plus general lack of common sense and basic intelligence will be our downfall. Remember, half of us are below average. ;)
 
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While there is some overlap, federal, state, and local governments address different issues. Congress doesn't need to go into emergency session to debate whether there's a stop sign on Apple Tree Road, and Peach Lane, or for every street in the nation. Nor does the town council need to adjust national defense spending. States address issues of localized importance. over a wide area. Quite frankly, I think this is the best of all worlds.
 
Of course, society will run amuck. The tighter the hold, less wiggle room for opposition.
 
But Alligator, not all places where people live are cities. In fact, most probably aren't.

If we got rid of city government, the city population would become an overwhelming part of the county where that city is located. Which could stamp out the influence of the non-city part of that county.

If we did away with county government, we'd have a dictatorship by the city residents. Everybody else would have no voice at all.
 
Do we really need municipal, county, and state governments?

Oh Heck yeah. More than ever.
 


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