Do You Believe in an Eternal Hell

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Lara said:
Aneeda, as I told you before, I don't debate with Catholics as your minds are made up and Catholics don't use the Bible. I do.
We're just miles apart.
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Catholics do use the Bible, since you are not Catholic you have no ideal what Catholics do and don’t do, as individuals or in a group. Btw, everyone has their minds made up about these issues, not just Catholics.

@ Lara, As I told you before this is not a debate, it’s a discussion.

Yes, we are miles apart, but I have an open mind. I do not have a narrow vision of heaven and hell and how we get there. I do not have a self righteous arrogant attitude that judges other people of other faiths. I, actually, will talk to anyone about anything. I believe that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. 😂
 

Dana...I didn't say nor suggest that Catholics are the only ones that have made up their minds.
Don't put words in my mouth please. So far this thread has been amazingly friendly and kind.
It's been the first online discussion of a religious topic I have ever experienced that has been respectful to all.
So let's not say to anyone "You are wrong". Let's address the post and not the poster
 
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Lara said:
Dana...I didn't say nor suggest that Catholics are the only ones that have made up their minds.
Don't put words in my mouth please. So far this thread has been amazingly animosity-free.
It's been the first online discussion of a religious topic I have ever experienced that has been respectful to all.
So let's not say to anyone "You are wrong".
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You don't have to say something in so many words Lara for people to deduce exactly what you mean. I believe you are wrong in your suggestion about Catholics, but if it will make you happy, I shall change that to incorrect.
 
Lara said:
@Keesha ...This is what Aneeda said about Catholic Bibles. I don't know a thing about their Bible.
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I have no idea at all Lara. If there are many different versions of the Bible then maybe there’s more versions of Jesus Christ as well and if believing in him and following his word grants mortals into the gates of heaven, which version of the Bible and which version of Jesus are they talking about? See how this gets very confusing?
I don’t think God made believing so complicated.
 
🍃🍂The very fact that Christian Bibles differ is because they are not historically correct. If they were, all the writings would be in unison with each other.

The Buddist philosophy is the same in every text. The Koran is the same and no changes made. The Indian Shruti remains unchanged. The Jewish Bible is the same 🍃🍂
 
Lara said:
I agree, Keesha. God is not the author of confusion.
There are no contradictions in the Bible.
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Hahahaha. Oh goodness Lara. I’m sorry but I am going to respectfully disagree with you and hugely so. The number of times I’ve tried reading the entire Bible is staggering and the reason why I stop every time is that it’s so filled with contradictions.

Still love you though 😘
 
You have to read it in context and sometimes cross reference. But I understand that it takes perseverance. When I was a new Christian my pastor had a gift of discernment and I would go to him when I thought there was a contradiction in the Bible. He knew right away. Then my husband grew in his faith and also had that gift of discernment. I miss him...*sniff*

Btw Keesha...love your "peace-sign" avatar.
Makes me feel like whatever you post is said in peace :giggle:
You could tell me I look like a Baboon and I'd be okay with it :LOL:
 
Lara said:
You have to read it in context and sometimes cross reference. But I understand that it takes perseverance. When I was a new Christian my pastor had a gift of discernment and I would go to him when I thought there was a contradiction in the Bible. He knew right away. Then my husband grew in his faith and also had that gift of discernment. I miss him...*sniff*

Btw Keesha...love your "peace-sign" avatar. Makes me feel like whatever you post is said in peace :giggle: You could tell me I look like a Baboon and I'd be okay with it :LOL:
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That’s great that you had help with all the contradictions to help sort them out. Once I find out too many then my sense of logic over rides my blind faith.

Here are some MAJOR contradictions from the Bible.

I’d like to mention that I’m not turning this conversation into a debate. I’m actually trying to understand everyone’s points of view as I find the subject fascinating.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html
 
Keesha...I looked at your link called "Secular Web".
So I picked one and I see the problem. They have taken it out of context and added some deceptive wording.

"Secular Web" says:
GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.
GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later.

The Bible does Not say "same time" in Genesis 1:26-27...it just says they were created.
Then Secular Web skips over Genesis 2:4 where it says "This is the account of creation" which is announcing..."And now, for the details"

The details that begin in Genesis 2:7 says in detail Adam and Eve were created separately

That's just one example. But do you see what I mean? One has to read it themselves and not from a Secular site. Then it has to be read in context. You can pick another one from your list and I'll be glad to explain it.
 
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Keesha...Beware....this whole "Secular Web" is is totally deceptive. I picked another one from Secular Web. They completely used their own words that had nothing to do with what the Scripture verse said:

Secular Web says:
1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners.
1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin.

Bible says:
1 Timothy 1:15...yes, this verse is correct. But not the next one! It's talking about people who sin the same sin over and over.
1 John 3:8-10 says :
8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life[a] is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers[b] does not belong to God.

Wow! Look closely at what I've underlined. And btw, I'm a child of God and I sin. And my sins are not of the devil. The devil may tempt me but my "sin is of the flesh"...my own choice.

These were too easy lol. I welcome any contradictions anyone can find in the Bible and I will address them...but not from Secular Web. They themselves are from the devil and I would steer clear. In fact I won't go back. That's a scary place.
 
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Dana said:
🍃🍂🍃🍂
Scholars agree there are 144 contradictions in the Bible. An example and a link to a few:

No one has ever seen God (1 John 4:12).

No man has seen or can see [God] (1 Timothy 6:16).

But Adam and Eve saw God. So did Abraham and Moses:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/

and more here:

https://thoughtcatalog.com/jim-goad/2014/05/30-pairs-of-bible-verses-that-contradict-one-another/

🍃🍂🍃🍂
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Dana, you said in your post that Scholars" Say:
1 John 4:12....No one has ever seen God (your link from "most damning bible contradictions")

When you Google "most damning bible contradictions" then you are not getting truth like you will find in the Bible.

With that said, God can be “seen” and many people have “seen” God. At the same time, no one has ever seen God revealed in all His glory. In our fallen human condition, if God were to fully reveal Himself to us, we would die. Therefore, God veils Himself and appears in forms in which we can “see” Him...like an angel or bright light. However, this is different than seeing God with all His glory and holiness displayed. People have seen visions of God, images of God, and appearances of God, but no one has ever seen God in all His fullness (Exodus 33:20).

TRUE PERSONAL STORY: My son at the age of 2 had a near death experience at Childrens Hospital in DC. At the age of 4 he was able to communicate it with me He pointed at a high mountaintop and said, "I've been up there". At first I told him he hadn't but he insisted. I said, was anyone else up there? He said yes, someone standing next to me. I asked him what this "someone" looked like. He said, I don't know because he was next to me and it was such a bright light I couldn't tell. He "saw" God but veiled...not totally revealed.
 
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🐦🐦..Lara, I respectfully request that you do not reply to my posts or attempt to analyse them, you are not in any intellectual position to do so. Since you did not create the thread, you are under no obligation to do so … please ignore me.

If you were open minded and able to absorb different interpretations of the Christian Bible then I would welcome your input. However, nothing you have written so far provides evidence of someone with any original thought and who relies too heavily on a set of books written over 2000 years ago. I have written a thesis on the topic of religions around the world, so nothing you can say has any value for me. Cheerio.

🐦🐦
 
Later on I’d be happy to personally pick out some of the contradictions in the Bible but I’m currently getting ready for a big move so just don’t have the time to look them up right now. Maybe once we start travelling I will look those up for you Lara. There really are a lot of them.

I’ve had about 5 of those experiences where my body showed no vital signs yet my consciousness was in complete peace with unconditional love. That purée white light is what I refer to God consciousness which is always available to us when we acknowledge it.

Note: I do not consider these near death experiences. It wasn’t a close call. I was dead. If I wasn’t dead I wouldn’t have experienced this and no amount of anyone convincing me otherwise will change my mind.
 
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Lara..... please don’t attempt to tell me there’s no such thing as feeling God in its pure form. Not only was there unconditional love but unlimited access to knowledge since there’s no conscious barrier between other entities. It becomes all one.

I accept that you have your own beliefs which I’m perfectly ok with. You have every right to experience God however you wish BUT please don’t tell me that my experiences can’t be correct. They are MY experiences, not yours or anyone else’s. I know what I went through and how I felt about it.

note: if we meet our creator before our time we are sent back. Many people throughout the world have experienced this and lived to talk about it. Call us ALL crazy, I don’t have a problem with that either.
 
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Dana said:
🐦🐦..Lara, I respectfully request that you do not reply to my posts or attempt to analyse them, you are not in any intellectual position to do so. Since you did not create the thread, you are under no obligation to do so … please ignore me.

If you were open minded and able to absorb different interpretations of the Christian Bible then I would welcome your input. However, nothing you have written so far provides evidence of someone with any original thought and who relies too heavily on a set of books written over 2000 years ago. I have written a thesis on the topic of religions around the world, so nothing you can say has any value for me. Cheerio.

🐦🐦
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Dana, it's discrimination and against the law to deny me my right to religious expression and try to silence me. You are welcome to put me on ignore if you wish. Btw, I always provide evidence. Look for the Bible verses posted...usually in Blue but not always. I know you won't lol.

This thread had 5,000 views and over 400 posts...and, remarkably, no one has been mean or disrespectful to anyone until you. But I know how you treated Gary so I'm on high alert lol
 
Lara said:
Dana, it's discrimination and against the law to deny me my right to religious expression and try to silence me. You are welcome to put me on ignore if you wish. Btw, I always provide evidence. Look for the Bible verses posted...usually in Blue but not always. I know you won't lol.

This thread had 5,000 views and over 400 posts...and, remarkably, no one has been mean or disrespectful to anyone until you. But I know how you treated Gary so I'm on high alert lol
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You are not being "denied" anything...however your post is just another example of more nonsense...so to keep the peace I am going to put you on ignore.

You have the rather dubious honour of being the only person I have put on "ignore" ...
 
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Keesha said:
Lara..... please don’t attempt to tell me there’s no such thing as feeling God in its pure form. Not only was there unconditional love but unlimited access to knowledge since there’s no conscious barrier between other entities. It becomes all one.

I accept that you have your own beliefs which I’m perfectly ok with. You have every right to experience God however you wish BUT please don’t tell me that my experiences can’t be correct. They are MY experiences, not yours or anyone else’s. I know what I went through and how I felt about it.

note: if we meet our creator before our time we are sent back. Many people throughout the world have experienced this and lived to talk about it. Call us ALL crazy, I don’t have a problem with that either.
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I never said any such thing Keesha. I never "attempted to tell you there's no such thing as Feeling God". I said no one has ever SEEN God in all his glory. In fact I even shared my son's true life experience of "feeling God" in my post 415. And why would I ever call you crazy for having a different belief? I'm not a monster. Why are you and Dana misunderstanding me? I'm so clear in my post.
 
Lara said:
I never said any such thing Keesha. I never "attempted to tell you there's no such thing as Feeling God". I did say no one has ever SEEN God in all his glory. In fact I even shared my son's true life experience of "feeling God" in my post 415. And why would I ever call you crazy for having a different belief? I'm not a monster. Why are you and Dana misunderstanding me? I'm so clear in my post.
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What I find unfair about your approach to God is that any experiences or opinions others have, you immediately compare them with a book written thousands of years ago. It becomes more of a dictatorship instead of a conversation. It’s like you have all of the RIGHT answers and the rest of us just don’t know because we don’t know the Bible like you do. The Bible isn’t the only book written about the energy within us and all around us. There are many books out there but even more important than that; people have profound experiences with our creator everyday by going out and experiencing life

Most of the people that I know who resort to the Bible are very closed minded. If you have a mind that isn’t open to any other possibilities of explanation to life’s mysteries , then you are cutting out other valuable sources of teachable material.

God is in our hearts. God is in our life experiences. God loves us ALL equally no matter what we do. Perfect love casts out all fear and if God is perfect love he has no reason to judge us. Judging comes from believing we are separate and we aren’t. We just think we are. We ourselves are the ones who judge but we are human and that’s what we do.

I’m enjoying this conversation. It’s great that so many people have been able to express their opinions without the thread being shut down.
We are all unique human beings. We look differently, we think differently, we eat differently,
we use our six senses differently, we love differently etc....

The God I speak of didn’t write a manual for ALL of us in order to understand him/ her/ it. If God is in everything then that everything speaks to us individually if we are willing and open to know that our consciousness is all connected and can be used to enhance our lives. This is how I view God. There’s no fear, there’s no shame or guilt; just pure unconditional love. Nature is a miraculous thing. Maybe it’s because we don’t know much about how it works but the great thing is, we don’t have to. We can simply be in awe of it. Precious moments. That’s where I find God.

Note: This is my opinion only. I respect your right to think differently but please respect my right to believe how I wish to.
 
Lara said:
Dana, it's discrimination and against the law to deny me my right to religious expression and try to silence me. You are welcome to put me on ignore if you wish. Btw, I always provide evidence. Look for the Bible verses posted...usually in Blue but not always. I know you won't lol.

This thread had 5,000 views and over 400 posts...and, remarkably, no one has been mean or disrespectful to anyone until you. But I know how you treated Gary so I'm on high alert lol
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Oh dear me, @Dana, so glad I was not the first to bring some things up. @Lara no, no one is discriminating against anyone but YOU, as in “I do not debate with Catholics“, 😂, it is clear, from your writings, that you discriminate AGAINST Catholics and have offended many people on the forum by your words.

I am not offended, but then while I am Catholic, I am not a “defender of the faith“ as I believe faith needs no defense and we are all entitled to our individual beliefs, including you. But unfortunately we do not know what your beliefs are, as you just spout verses from the Bible.

Also, you refuse to say what religion you are, such knowledge might give us insight into your views. Are you with a main stream religion or a cult? Are you a devout Bible thumping revival attending main stream Southern Baptist Christian, like my grandma was, or a fanatic? Inquiring minds want to know.

No one wants to silence you, you have found a platform, you go girl. 😂, five thousand views 🤣🤣🤣. I did not know people cared about views. The only disrespectful person in the thread is yourself, IMO. But, as I have said before, continue onward. Eventually this will get boring and people will move on as they have on other threads, or it will get locked.
 
Dana said:
You are not being "denied" anything...however your post is just another example of more nonsense...so to keep the peace I am going to put you on ignore.

You have the rather dubious honour of being the only person I have put on "ignore" ...
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@Dana While I have someone on this thread on permanent ignore for their remarks towards my sons, I don’t think you should have Lara on ignore. I appreciate your answers to her. I am no Bible scholar and won’t become one. You add a great deal to this discussion. I know you are becoming frustrated. I hope you will reconsider your decision.
 
Keesha said:
I grew up with many Catholic friends and now have Catholic relatives and they definitely use the Bible.
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I will say, I went to Catholic school for 8 years and had "religion" class daily and we never cracked a bible. We had a religion text book and I'm sure we discussed some of the writings , but I never saw a bible.
 

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