Do You Feel This is Over-Stepping on the Part of the Vatican?

fureverywhere

fureverywhere

beloved friend who will always be with us in spiri
Location
Northern NJ, USA
My husband is a recovered Catholic, while best buddy and sister in law are devout. Therefore I can see many sides of the church. But reading the newest headline I wonder how practicing Catholics feel. They've released a statement forbidding cremation ashes to be kept privately or spread over say the ocean or forest.

I guess what happens to our bodies is a choice of ours or our survivors. My personal feeling is that our body is rather like a piece of overripe fruit. After we physically die our spirit has already left the building. Our bodies are just the physical container we don't need anymore.

I want to be cremated and spread over a local nature reserve. Back to the ground and nutrition for new plants and the cycle of life beginning anew. I don't understand the churches stand about keeping ashes complete. I mean the ashes themselves aren't going to magically turn back into a human someday. I just don't get it, but that's just me.

Thoughts?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/europe/cremation-vatican-scattering/
 

I tend to agree with you Fur and I wonder why the article says the ashes can only be kept at home with special permission from a bishop.
 
Ummm, just a bit curious...is there money to be made on the part of the church with this new order? Pagan babies anyone?
 

I was raised catholic but haven't been one since I was 18. Husband is still catholic but does not agree with many of the 'rules'.

As for ashes, I believe it's up to the family/other as to what to do with them. However, I want my ashes sprinkled over one of the mountains and lochs here.
 
Yes, it's overstepping. I was raised Catholic, did the 8 years in Catholic grade school and once I was out I never looked back. There's a good reason for so many "recovering" Catholics these days. I want to be cremated and don't care what is done with my ashes, if they're spread over the mountains great, if not that's fine too. Wouldn't matter either way. Neither of us will be keeping the other's ashes at home.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Yes, it's overstepping. I was raised Catholic, did the 8 years in Catholic grade school and once I was out I never looked back. There's a good reason for so many "recovering" Catholics these days. I want to be cremated and don't care what is done with my ashes, if they're spread over the mountains great, if not that's fine too. Wouldn't matter either way. Neither of us will be keeping the other's ashes at home.
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Yes, there are a lot of us recovering catholics!

I don't care if I'm cremated or buried, but, may sound weird, if my husband dies first I want a grave to visit.
 
Personally, as a non conformist Christian, I don't hold the body to be sacred in any way. It is just the remains after the spirit no longer resides in it. However, I do believe in treating those remains with dignity out of respect for the humanity of the person who has died.

I tend to agree with the spokesperson on this point but I'm coming from a very different philosophical position.

In the United States, cremations have taken on a highly personalized and commercial aspect. Companies offer to load cremains into shotgun shells so that family members can take them on turkey hunts... Cremains can be shot into space, or refashioned as diamonds.
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The ashes of my mother and father were scattered on a rose garden at the cemetery where they were cremated. There is no marker for either of them. It is what they wanted. When my auntie died I had to decide what to do with her ashes and she had expressed no preference. She was a spinster without children so I decided to have her ashes placed in the grave of her parents and was able to have her name added to the headstone. I felt good about this decision because I feel, quite irrationally, that I have returned her to the arms of her mother and father.

My daughter has already bought niches for herself and her husband and would like us to do the same. Although hubby and I don't really care about having a marker I think we will do this for the sake of our daughter who wants somewhere to visit and place a flower.
 
I am also a recovered Catholic..now when asked I simply say Christian. Anyway, a few weeks back my big brother died at the age of 72. He and his wife were always much more Catholic than I ever thought to be. That being said, my brother was ill for many years, and had a lot of time to come to his final wishes. One was cremation. At first, he wanted his cremains to be buried in a Veterans cemetary, but after discussion, he decided he wanted them kept with his family.
In my mind, the body is just the vessel of the soul...our mortal remains. I do not feel it is needed at resurrection. I mean, what if some mortal bodies are not complete..as with organ donors? I mean I could go on and on. Me...I would pick cremation, but not burial
 
Ameriscot said:
Yes, there are a lot of us recovering catholics!

I don't care if I'm cremated or buried, but, may sound weird, if my husband dies first I want a grave to visit.
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Your comment reminded me of this verse from "Danny Boy" by Frederic Edward Weatherly.

"And I will know, though soft you tread above me,
And then my grave will richer, sweeter be.
And you'll bend down and tell me that you love me,
And I will rest in peace until you come to me."
 
It's very warming to read all that's being said here, and I feel strongly about honoring a loved one's wishes. I too feel that spreading ashes is a wonderful remembrance and honors the persons and places important to them, and a way to return to the earth. There is a lot about Catholicism I don't understand, but with all of the recent changes in the church, this rule surprises me a bit. I also understand why for some families gravestones are important way to create a place.

My personal wishes are cremation and ashes spread in a couple of meaningful bodies of water. And then a party to help lighten the hearts I hold dear.

Marie, I am sorry to hear of your brother's passing.
 
Sorry for your loss, Marie.

I am not Catholic so I really don't have an answer to that. However, I don't have an issue with anyone's decision with what to do with ashes. As far as the "hallow ground" reference, there is a cemetery where many of my Catholic relatives are buried. It is actually a large cemetery where the Catholics are buried on one side of a walkway and maybe 6-10 ft away, other people are buried.
 
I have never been a Catholic, but my wife is. I see this pronouncement as an intrusion on a very private matter. This leads people to become "cafeteria Catholics".

We already have arrangements for cremation and to be scattered in the Gulf of Mexico. My MIL was scattered in the Atlantic back in 1976.
 
Marie5656 said:
I am also a recovered Catholic..now when asked I simply say Christian. Anyway, a few weeks back my big brother died at the age of 72. He and his wife were always much more Catholic than I ever thought to be. That being said, my brother was ill for many years, and had a lot of time to come to his final wishes. One was cremation. At first, he wanted his cremains to be buried in a Veterans cemetary, but after discussion, he decided he wanted them kept with his family.
In my mind, the body is just the vessel of the soul...our mortal remains. I do not feel it is needed at resurrection. I mean, what if some mortal bodies are not complete..as with organ donors? I mean I could go on and on. Me...I would pick cremation, but not burial
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My deep condolences, Marie.
 
Aunt Bea said:
Your comment reminded me of this verse from "Danny Boy" by Frederic Edward Weatherly.

"And I will know, though soft you tread above me,
And then my grave will richer, sweeter be.
And you'll bend down and tell me that you love me,
And I will rest in peace until you come to me."
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My husband wants this song played at his funeral. His name is Danny and his mother loved this song. He also wants bagpipes.
 
Carla said:
Sorry for your loss, Marie.

I am not Catholic so I really don't have an answer to that. However, I don't have an issue with anyone's decision with what to do with ashes. As far as the "hallow ground" reference, there is a cemetery where many of my Catholic relatives are buried. It is actually a large cemetery where the Catholics are buried on one side of a walkway and maybe 6-10 ft away, other people are buried.
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There is a small catholic cemetery where my paternal grandparents, ggrandparents, and gggrandparents (from Ireland) are buried (Michigan). On the other side of the road is the protestant cemetery.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I believe that may be correct, similar to the old custom of burying amputated limbs.
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They also believed your body needed to be whole and intact for resurrection. Or they used to. They've only recently allowed people to be cremated. I think the loved ones of the deceased have enough pain to cope with without worrying about whether or not the vatican approves of the final resting place they choose for a loved one.
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I'm sorry Marie <<<hugs and purrs>>>

The whole body thing can be troubling though. Like you say if someone donates organs and aren't complete...or a catastrophic accident where there are no remains to be found. Then what? Can a priest wave a magic wand and give the soul some kind of dispensation for not being complete?
 
No matter what the Dearly Departed wants, some requests should not be followed.

Man sprinkles 'human ashes' into New York opera pit

A powdery substance a man sprinkled into the orchestra pit at New York's Metropolitan Opera may have been an opera lover's ashes, police say.

The freakish incident during an afternoon performance of Rossini's Guillaume Tell forced Met officials to cancel the rest of the show as well as an evening performance of a second opera.

John Miller, the New York Police Department's deputy commissioner in charge of intelligence and counterterrorism, said several audience members said a man told them he was there to sprinkle the ashes of a friend, his mentor in the opera.

Mr Miller said the man was in front of the first row of seats when he sprinkled the powder into the orchestra pit during the second intermission when most of the musicians were not present.

Audience demand money back

The Met cancelled Saturday night's performance of L'Italiana in Algeri, another Rossini opera, because of the investigation.
Audience members at Guillaume Tell described confusion as the intermission went on longer than usual.

A Met representative at first announced that a technical issue was causing the delay, then returned a few minutes later to announce that the fourth act would not be performed. The audience was told to go home.

"Everybody kind of slowly walked out," said Dylan Hayden of Toronto. "As we were exiting the building, I noticed the counterterrorism unit going into the building."

More here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-30/human-27ashes27-sprinkled-into-new-york-opera-pit/7978558
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