carouselsilver
Member
- Location
- Eastern PA
I would like a flip phone! I don't use half the features on my smart phone, and I find it heavy so I am constantly dropping it.
Do you think electronics are getting way too complicated to use?
- Thread starter fuzzybuddy
- Start date
carouselsilver
Member
- Location
- Eastern PA
We bought a 'smart' TV and ended up taking it back. Instead, a large flat screen monitor was purchased instead, and hooked up to a laptop. Since we only stream our entertainment, it works out fine, and saves a lot of money.
fotosnjazzgtr
New Member
Do what fits you and your lifestyle.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Well despite your opinion that I don't value, I still feel the same way that many are as I related are impatient, lazy, and or reading unskilled consumers, because that is absolutely true. And note I wrote "many consumers" that means significant numbers, with a long list of others for which it does not apply. I'm not afraid to publicly put blame where it is deserved, even if that might be a few on this board.
Buckeye
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sunny Florida
Well, that wouldn't work for me since we don't stream anything. Tried HULU, hated it. Plus, it's hard to beat the price of "free" cable. And as it turns out, there aren't any "dumb" TVs to be found. Good Will doesn't accept any TVs down here, so that's not an option.
Michael Z
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Wisconsin
At $9 a month vs. a typical smart phone plan, I like my flip phone. It uses a Tracfone Plan.
Dave03
Member
- Location
- Dunder Mifflin, Scranton Branch
Ah, not for me. I'm very low tech and don't really need a lot.
Any time I'm faced with some new technology, I'll give it a whirl on my own, and if I get stuck, one of my kids will bail me out.
Any time I'm faced with some new technology, I'll give it a whirl on my own, and if I get stuck, one of my kids will bail me out.
Ted51
New Member
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I struggle with cell phones. Anything more complicated, forget it.
I went on a cruise. There was a thermostat in the cabin. I adjusted it. The cabin became unbearably hot. Luckily my son in law managed to figure out that I was pushing the wrong button...
I went on a cruise. There was a thermostat in the cabin. I adjusted it. The cabin became unbearably hot. Luckily my son in law managed to figure out that I was pushing the wrong button...
Axel Slingerland
Blues Rocker
- Location
- 10 Miles North of Weedpatch
I think it depends on how the manuals are written. I used to do that at a company I worked for in Hayward back in 1990. My boss to told to write in step by step fashion, assuming the user knows nothing about computers, and then write it again in summary fashion for those who are more PC oriented and don't really need a step by step guide.
So I did that, and it took a little over two weeks to get it where I was happy with it. Then I gave it to my Boss. He took it to his office and read it. When he came back, he laid it on my desk and said "Not detailed enough. Write it again." and started to leave. I sat there in disbelief and when he got to the door of my office, he stopped and turned around and said "Just kidding. It's perfect. Send it to the publisher."
I could have clocked him for that...
Tommy
Senior Member
- Location
- New Hampshire
A while back we bought a video doorbell from a company called Lorex. I typically do fairly well with new electronics, but this thing was utter nonsense. Not the least bit intuitive and the instructions that came with it were absolute, total rubbish. I couldn't even find any useful videos online. Sent it back.
It isn't always the complexity of the technology that's the source of the problem.
It isn't always the complexity of the technology that's the source of the problem.
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
One of the things that irritate the hell out of me is computer instructions. They will say do X, Y and Z then click on "Finish". So, I do X,Y, and Z, but there's no "Finish" icon. Or the instructions will say "scroll down to Menu", and there's no "Menu" when you scroll down.
Brookswood
Senior Member
It’s not electronics. It’s poor design.
That Lady in PA
Member
Somewhat.Usually need a grandkid to make it understandable … and they never seem to have a problem .. so I conclude it’s an old age issue.
The problem is not with the tech, it is with the people of any age who don't want to deal with the tech, or don't want to learn.
With older folks, I have found that they have problems because the only learned math and are now having calculus thrown at them (as an example). You have to keep up with things and move along as the tech moves along. Otherwise, you are left behind...
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
David777 wrote:>>>
OP title is:
Do you think electronics are getting way too complicated to use?
title should be:
Do you think electronics for impatient, lazy, and or reading unskilled consumers is getting too complicated to use?
Agreed, so to be clear. Didn't mean to make it read like those were the only other person situations where RTFM applies but rather to emphasize those categories are significant, especially for those like this person who have worn a customer service hat at times and had to inefficiently deal with whatever. That is a key reason when the Internet began, consumer product customer service departments were often overwhelmed by those calling for help that might have been addressed earlier with more effort on a caller's part. That in turn resulted in corporations making it more difficult for customers to contact warm bodies and instead were often playing phone tag with call center phone system robots.
My changed title should have been:
Do you think electronics for impatient, lazy, reading unskilled consumers, among other persons, is getting too complicated to use?
Yes. I think theyre getting way too complicated.
IMO part of this stems from way too many unnecessary options.
Can I figure things out. Sure. Do I want to. No.
The only options I want are off and on.
Im old. I cant see up close without my reading glasses.
I dont want to have to keep a pair by each appliance so I can use it.
IMO part of this stems from way too many unnecessary options.
Can I figure things out. Sure. Do I want to. No.
The only options I want are off and on.
Im old. I cant see up close without my reading glasses.
I dont want to have to keep a pair by each appliance so I can use it.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
When learning electronics or computer programs, YouTube offers a choice of teachers, the option of freezing the instructions, and starting over with another instructor if the first video isn't helpful. I recently got a new cellphone and a (non-manufacturer) YouTube video gave step-by-step instructions for transferring over all my text messages. The manual was a joke, as were the mfrs web instructions.
I admit to being unable to work our TVs because I so rarely choose to watch them. I'd rather stream using my desktop. I learn how to work the TVs when we first buy them, but the steps for getting to a particular streaming service becomes a blur in my memory over time.
DH, my kids and my older GKs can work the TV and are happy to lend a hand when I need a refresher.
@David777 - just saw your new post that included RTFM (had to look that up: Read the F***ing manual). Ouch! Maybe manuals are helpful for you, but the average consumer would disagree.
In my experience, most electronics manuals are nearly worthless, and have been since at least the 70s when many of us bought our first stereos. YouTubers explain and demonstrate everything step-by-step, using plain English.
When this line was uttered in the "Beetlejuice", everyone could relate. Nothing has changed.
I admit to being unable to work our TVs because I so rarely choose to watch them. I'd rather stream using my desktop. I learn how to work the TVs when we first buy them, but the steps for getting to a particular streaming service becomes a blur in my memory over time.
DH, my kids and my older GKs can work the TV and are happy to lend a hand when I need a refresher.
@David777 - just saw your new post that included RTFM (had to look that up: Read the F***ing manual). Ouch! Maybe manuals are helpful for you, but the average consumer would disagree.
In my experience, most electronics manuals are nearly worthless, and have been since at least the 70s when many of us bought our first stereos. YouTubers explain and demonstrate everything step-by-step, using plain English.
When this line was uttered in the "Beetlejuice", everyone could relate. Nothing has changed.
Axel Slingerland
Blues Rocker
- Location
- 10 Miles North of Weedpatch
I have found that now days most people learn by one of three methods, reading instructions, verbal instructions or video instructions. But however people learn, the instructions need to make sense to begin with, and be up to date for the current version of whatever the instructions are for. And that does not take good device design into account. If a device is a POS in the first place, even the best instructions will be useless.
If companies would take the time to write step by step, up to date guides in the native language of the user, and present them in one of these methods, then the only problem then is going to be in how well people can follow those instructions. Assuming of course that they don't have have poor reading comprehension skills, hearing or vision problems. There's nothing companies can do to help them with those issues. And I tell anyone who gives me that RTFM nonsense "Did you write it?" In those cases I always say reading it is fine, but if people don't understand it then "Re-write The F'n Manual."
For example, my first computer was a 1986 Mac Plus, and all I knew how to do with it was program a sequencer for MIDI, which had been set up to turn various lights on and off, thus I could either turn them on or off manually or "automagically" with the sequencer. I got used to how to do that. But when I went to work for the aforementioned computer company, their stuff was all IBM PC, and it made no sense to me at all. And back then there was no Internet, and no YouTube. That meant I had to read or hear instructions, or I would never understand them.
But that was ok, because my Boss Mike, was the best teacher for things like that that I could have hoped for because he had a PC in his office, but a Mac at home. He wrote me up a series of To Do This = Do That instructions and I was using a PC in no time.
But in addition to teaching well about the current state of PCs at the time, we were usually the last people to leave the building, often after busses had stopped running on that route. So he would give me a ride home.
We would get in his car, and he would say "Are you hungry?" and we would go to Wendy's for dinner. We would sit there and eat, and he would talk about computers the whole time. And I soaked it up like a sponge. He was the best "strait job" Boss I ever had.
If companies would take the time to write step by step, up to date guides in the native language of the user, and present them in one of these methods, then the only problem then is going to be in how well people can follow those instructions. Assuming of course that they don't have have poor reading comprehension skills, hearing or vision problems. There's nothing companies can do to help them with those issues. And I tell anyone who gives me that RTFM nonsense "Did you write it?" In those cases I always say reading it is fine, but if people don't understand it then "Re-write The F'n Manual."
For example, my first computer was a 1986 Mac Plus, and all I knew how to do with it was program a sequencer for MIDI, which had been set up to turn various lights on and off, thus I could either turn them on or off manually or "automagically" with the sequencer. I got used to how to do that. But when I went to work for the aforementioned computer company, their stuff was all IBM PC, and it made no sense to me at all. And back then there was no Internet, and no YouTube. That meant I had to read or hear instructions, or I would never understand them.
But that was ok, because my Boss Mike, was the best teacher for things like that that I could have hoped for because he had a PC in his office, but a Mac at home. He wrote me up a series of To Do This = Do That instructions and I was using a PC in no time.
But in addition to teaching well about the current state of PCs at the time, we were usually the last people to leave the building, often after busses had stopped running on that route. So he would give me a ride home.
We would get in his car, and he would say "Are you hungry?" and we would go to Wendy's for dinner. We would sit there and eat, and he would talk about computers the whole time. And I soaked it up like a sponge. He was the best "strait job" Boss I ever had.
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David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Much depends on the complexity level of a product. Some electronic products, like an LED flashlight with a couple buttons might be simple to understand directions of use and setup for most anyone and then there is a broad range of products with increasing complexity where such becomes less valid. I don't use any of the new streaming TV products and when I am in lodging rooms with those newer televisions, sometimes have difficulty understanding Remote use since they don't provide manuals in rooms and online set Help information is likely to be terse.
Today's consumer products containing microprocessor controlled firmware and software will for marketing reasons, have a list of features that target the broadest audience without significantly increasing cost. Thus more functionality than average users are specifically likely to use. Application software adding options costs little after development. What is important if so is to provide primary simple user modes that as defaults, set up whatever list of options without forcing customers to figure that all out. And also allow customers to revert back to those basic modes if they accidentally get into a confusing mode.
On truly complex consumer products like my below Sony a6700 ILC mirrorless digital camera that is 147 web PDF pages long, large corporations have long since figured out how to present manual user information much better than during the earliest Internet era before 2000. But even so, there is a need for "Dummies" like books that explain things in even greater detail.
ILCE-6700 | Help Guide | Top
Notice how at the beginning of the PDF is this Index page with HTML links into manual sections. Note there is no longer an end of document Index section with hyperlinks. Instead of going to the document end and looking for a specific term like "exposure", a person is expected to use a Search box with whatever terms of interest that then will generate a more meaningful displayed term hit list to choose from.
Despite the above, because a camera's small digital LCD or EVF screen can only display limited text information, actual settings directions are often so terse term wise that there is no way to actually understand what option to use without consulting further information elsewhere. More confusing due to excessive visual clutter, would be to include all such possible information in line. For example, this below power section setting describes different temperature modes but doesn't explain why a user might need to even bother doing so that would need to be searched elsewhere on the Internet for why a camera might become too hot to function properly.
Although the below section is deep within the 147 pages, the page design wisely includes at screen left a main table of contents panel to more easily return to meaningful starting points. Just a few years ago, one would not see that panel then manufacturers discovered presenting user documents like this helped users avoid getting lost with page labyrinths. Thus improved documentation is evolving at least for more complex products like these smartphones we are all using.
Today's consumer products containing microprocessor controlled firmware and software will for marketing reasons, have a list of features that target the broadest audience without significantly increasing cost. Thus more functionality than average users are specifically likely to use. Application software adding options costs little after development. What is important if so is to provide primary simple user modes that as defaults, set up whatever list of options without forcing customers to figure that all out. And also allow customers to revert back to those basic modes if they accidentally get into a confusing mode.
On truly complex consumer products like my below Sony a6700 ILC mirrorless digital camera that is 147 web PDF pages long, large corporations have long since figured out how to present manual user information much better than during the earliest Internet era before 2000. But even so, there is a need for "Dummies" like books that explain things in even greater detail.
ILCE-6700 | Help Guide | Top
Notice how at the beginning of the PDF is this Index page with HTML links into manual sections. Note there is no longer an end of document Index section with hyperlinks. Instead of going to the document end and looking for a specific term like "exposure", a person is expected to use a Search box with whatever terms of interest that then will generate a more meaningful displayed term hit list to choose from.
Despite the above, because a camera's small digital LCD or EVF screen can only display limited text information, actual settings directions are often so terse term wise that there is no way to actually understand what option to use without consulting further information elsewhere. More confusing due to excessive visual clutter, would be to include all such possible information in line. For example, this below power section setting describes different temperature modes but doesn't explain why a user might need to even bother doing so that would need to be searched elsewhere on the Internet for why a camera might become too hot to function properly.
Although the below section is deep within the 147 pages, the page design wisely includes at screen left a main table of contents panel to more easily return to meaningful starting points. Just a few years ago, one would not see that panel then manufacturers discovered presenting user documents like this helped users avoid getting lost with page labyrinths. Thus improved documentation is evolving at least for more complex products like these smartphones we are all using.
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horseless carriage
Well-known Member
It's about time that my phone was upgraded, but the: "push this button, press that button," makes my brain hurt.
Axel Slingerland
Blues Rocker
- Location
- 10 Miles North of Weedpatch
And sometimes, the absolute most useful information is not in the manual at all. I bought a Fuji camera at Costco years ago and no matter what I did, I got blurry photos. I read through the PDF Manual several times and nothing helped. You know what I needed?
A Tripod.
If I set that camera up on a tripod and got my subject in focus, and very gently touch the button, the photos were fine. But there was no mention in the manual that the camera was extremely sensitive, and that a tripod would be required equipment. I hated that camera...
A Tripod.
If I set that camera up on a tripod and got my subject in focus, and very gently touch the button, the photos were fine. But there was no mention in the manual that the camera was extremely sensitive, and that a tripod would be required equipment. I hated that camera...