Does anyone still make their own bread ?

[pkuchnicki]

So, after making an artisan loaf, roasting your own coffee, you pull it all together and have a superb breakfast! The savory taste of a freshly brewed coffee lingering on your palette joined by crispy bread with a pillowy texture and, of course, fried cheese........ Can you almost taste it?

 

[fuzzybuddy]

One of the things i will always remember was the day my grandmother found out her daughters didn't bake their own bread. I was small. Somehow it came out that her 5 daughters did not bake their own bread. My grandmother was all upset. She kept saying, "If you don't make your own bread, what the hell do you do all day long?" Her daughters had just gone the way of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pkuchnicki]

One of the things i will always remember was the day my grandmother found out her daughters didn't bake their own bread. I was small. Somehow it came out that her 5 daughters did not bake their own bread. My grandmother was all upset. She kept saying, "If you don't make your own bread, what the hell do you do all day long?" Her daughters had just gone the way of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!

Classic! Wonderful story.

I didn't bake my own bread for years because I was under the wrong impression it took too much work. It wasn't until I retired that I found out how little work it can be unless you really work to make it harder.

 

[Devi]

As I said earlier in the thread, we make our own bread ... in a Zojirushi bread machine. Love it; it's pretty much "set it and forget it" ... does the mixing, rising, kneading (and I think rising again?) and then baking by itself.

But one thing I'll say is ... bread is NOT a diet food. <sob!>

 

[StarSong]

I bake (mostly whole wheat) bread regularly now that the temps have dropped. Always use my heavy-duty Kitchen Aid mixer for the kneading, always make a biga (pre-ferment) 1-2 days before baking day.

For a crisp crust I preheat the oven and a covered dutch oven for 30 minutes, then place the (round) loaf the dutch oven, spritz with 3 sprays of water, cover and bake for 20 minutes. Then remove the top and bake about 20 minutes more. When it's the right color I double check the internal temp of the bread (210°).

Remove from the oven and let the loaf cool on a stove top's (unlit) gas burner. If I'm baking two loves, I reheat the dutch oven for a few minutes, then repeat the process for the second loaf.

Oh, and I almost always use parchment paper.

 

[pkuchnicki]

I bake (mostly whole wheat) bread regularly now that the temps have dropped. Always use my heavy-duty Kitchen Aid mixer for the kneading, always make a biga (pre-ferment) 1-2 days before baking day.

For a crisp crust I preheat the oven and a covered dutch oven for 30 minutes, then place the (round) loaf the dutch oven, spritz with 3 sprays of water, cover and bake for 20 minutes. Then remove the top and bake about 20 minutes more. When it's the right color I double check the internal temp of the bread (210°).

Remove from the oven and let the loaf cool on a stove top's (unlit) gas burner. If I'm baking two loves, I reheat the dutch oven for a few minutes, then repeat the process for the second loaf.

Oh, and I almost always use parchment paper.

I have used the same process many times. I also experiment a lot. For example, this afternoon/evening I will try the cold oven method where I put the dough in a cold pan, turn on the heat to 450F and bake for 50 minutes; check the coloring and remove the lid if somewhat brown. Then heat another 10-20 minutes to get a really brown look. It doesn't hurt that I use either Diastic Malt Powder or Polydextrose to nudge it a bit browner. This will be my third experiment using the cold oven technique. First time the results were awesome. Second time not so much, but I suspect I ended up opening a seam which caused the bread not to get good oven spring.

 

[StarSong]

I have used the same process many times. I also experiment a lot. For example, this afternoon/evening I will try the cold oven method where I put the dough in a cold pan, turn on the heat to 450F and bake for 50 minutes; check the coloring and remove the lid if somewhat brown. Then heat another 10-20 minutes to get a really brown look. It doesn't hurt that I use either Diastic Malt Powder or Polydextrose to nudge it a bit browner. This will be my third experiment using the cold oven technique. First time the results were awesome. Second time not so much, but I suspect I ended up opening a seam which caused the bread not to get good oven spring.

What's the advantage to using a cold oven if it turns out that the oven is on for the same amount of time anyway?

I use a bit of low diastatic malt powder in my pizza dough, haven't yet tried it in bread dough. How much do you typically use? I've never worked with polydextrose (which appears to be a sweetener). Is one better than the other?

 

[pkuchnicki]

What's the advantage to using a cold oven if it turns out that the oven is on for the same amount of time anyway?

I use a bit of low diastatic malt powder in my pizza dough, haven't yet tried it in bread dough. How much do you typically use? I've never worked with polydextrose (which appears to be a sweetener). Is one better than the other?

Some of the better quality flours already have diastatic malt powder included (like King Arthur and, if I am remembering correctly, Gold Medal Flour.) The way I understand it is that DMP promotes better browning and aids in oven spring. The guidelines I have seen call for around .3-.7% DMP or 1% Polydextrose. I haven't used them enough to say with any experience that one is better than the other. As the yeast finish consuming toward the end of their cycle, DMP or Polydextrose provide more simple sugars as opposed to starchy sugars thereby enabling more coloring during the Maillard reaction.

The early stuff I learned about baking called for preheating the oven to about 500F for one hour with a baking stone or dutch oven then reducing the temp to 450F once the dough is added. Based on my experience with the resulting crust and other posts I have read, I have reduced that preheat to 450F.

 

[pkuchnicki]

Some of the better quality flours already have diastatic malt powder included (like King Arthur and, if I am remembering correctly, Gold Medal Flour.) The way I understand it is that DMP promotes better browning and aids in oven spring. The guidelines I have seen call for around .3-.7% DMP or 1% Polydextrose. I haven't used them enough to say with any experience that one is better than the other. As the yeast finish consuming toward the end of their cycle, DMP or Polydextrose provide more simple sugars as opposed to starchy sugars thereby enabling more coloring during the Maillard reaction.

The early stuff I learned about baking called for preheating the oven to about 500F for one hour with a baking stone or dutch oven then reducing the temp to 450F once the dough is added. Based on my experience with the resulting crust and other posts I have read, I have reduced that preheat to 450F.

Not quite certain yet about the time, but putting the dough in cold would slowly heat the dough generating a much slower over spring thereby delaying the onset of the crust hardening and elongating the oven spring. But, this will only be my third time so there is still much to be confirmed and learned.

 

[pkuchnicki]

Third attempt at making bread starting in a cold oven..... Bread still good with nice color, but, seams are not holding up causing gas to leak resulting in less oven spring. Need to revisit and rethink what I am doing. As you can see from the picture, the left side of the bread ruptured. When fully cooled will test whether the bread "sings" and how the crumb turned out.

 

[StarSong]

@pkuchnicki, Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this adventure.

 

[pkuchnicki]

So after letting the bread cool down for a couple of hours, here are some more pictures.
My thoughts: first the crumb was decent considering that the bread had somewhat degassed; second: the color was good - nice brown color; and third: some dark (burnt) spots on the bottom suggesting that is was either baked a tad too long or at too high a temperature (450F) or a combination of both.

The crumb was very creamy and pillowy resulting from a cooler bake (and possibly from my adding some clarified butter (6g).

So, I do conclude that baking bread starting in a cold oven absolutely produces good bread. Still have some work to do. In a following but related post I will provide details on ingredients and the process I used.

 

[pkuchnicki]

I decided to make a 75% hydration loaf with the following ingredients and amounts.

300 grams of King Arthur Organic unbleached bread flour at 12.7% protein.
150.1 grams of spring water
64.3 grams of a pilsner beer (Budweiser)
10.6 grams of distilled white vinegar
1.8 grams of SAF red yeast
6.0 grams of Morton's Kosher salt
3.0 grams of Diastatic Malt powder
6.0 grams of clarified butter
0.12 grams of Ascorbic acid (vitamin c)

 

[pkuchnicki]

This is the process I used to make a cold start baked loaf:

Measured and combined the dry ingredients take care to full mix after adding yeast. Add salt last and stirred well to mix well.
I then combine the liquids into a container and added that to the dry ingredients.

To mix these together, my weapon of choice is a Danish wisk making sure all the resulting dough has been moistened. Takes about 5 minutes. Before stopping I wet my hands with water and "smoosh" (technical jargon) the dough to verify there are no dry pockets (takes less than one minute). I then cover and let sit for around one hour. This is known as an autolyze.

I follow this immediately with a set of stretch and folds (takes about 15 seconds); I rest dough for about 20 minutes then do three more stretch and folds followed by a 20 minute rest after each S&F. After the third rest I do a window pane test to insure gluten has been adequately developed. If not I add another S&F until gluten displays evidence of development.

After gluten is developed, I let it ferment, covered and at room temperature, for another 2 hours.

After that, I cover and place in the fridge to develop flavor overnight.

Remainder is in next post.

 

[pkuchnicki]

Anyway, to cut out some of the intermediary details, the bread making process for instant hot oven bread baking vs cold start bread baking is the same.

The difference is that for baking in a cold oven, use your tools (I use a Challenger bread pan) and turn oven on to 450F and leave in for 50 minutes (revised down to 45 minutes after three tries at this), then uncover and bake till a nice brown color has been attained. After 45 covered and about an 5-10 minute uncovered bake, take out and place on a metal rack to cool for about 2 hours. I am very happy with the moist texture and feel of the crumb, so I am only shortening the BAKING TIME to try and remove the very few burnt looking spots.

Note, as I am doing this and making adjustments, I will update with any significant changes I introduce.

 

[pkuchnicki]

I did forget to add that I am revising the amount of flour used from 300g to 250g. The former was barely able to fit in the bread pan. So 250 should give it a bit more room.

 

[Shero]

I did forget to add that I am revising the amount of flour used from 300g to 250g. The former was barely able to fit in the bread pan. So 250 should give it a bit more room.

I must say I enjoy your great efforts in bread making. I too use dough straight from the fridge using a cold oven to make baguettes and I am trained in French cuisine.
.

 

[pkuchnicki]

I must say I enjoy your great efforts in bread making. I too use dough straight from the fridge using a cold oven to make baguettes and I am trained in French cuisine.
.

Really glad to see someone else who has done this. Do you have anything you can add, such as your temperature choice, your baking time (covered and uncovered), and advice and tips?

 

[Shero]

Really glad to see someone else who has done this. Do you have anything you can add, such as your temperature choice, your baking time (covered and uncovered), and advice and tips?

You are doing so well, that I do not think I could add much. As in most things, it’s trial and error. May I suggest though, a lower temperature for the oven. I usually set the oven to 365 and bake for 30-40 minutes. Then turn the oven off and leave the bread in the hot oven for another 15 minutes or so, again checking before putting on wire rack to cool.

With the scoring of the loaf may I suggest to prevent it having a dent in the side, using a lame might help and also don't hold the top of the loaf, but gently steady it from the end of the loaf. Maybe you already do all these things and I am only repeating what you already know!

I love bread, so save me some next time!

 

[pkuchnicki]

You are doing so well, that I do not think I could add much. As in most things, it’s trial and error. May I suggest though, a lower temperature for the oven. I usually set the oven to 365 and bake for 30-40 minutes. Then turn the oven off and leave the bread in the hot oven for another 15 minutes or so, again checking before putting on wire rack to cool.

With the scoring of the loaf may I suggest to prevent it having a dent in the side, using a lame might help and also don't hold the top of the loaf, but gently steady it from the end of the loaf. Maybe you already do all these things and I am only repeating what you already know!

I love bread, so save me some next time!

You got it! Thank you!