Dumb questions about electric cars.

Jondalar7 said:
I read a study that said the pollution and energy consumption created by mining and production of an electric car battery, is the equivalent of driving a gas car (22 mpg) 70,000 miles. So an electric car becomes environmentally beneficial at 70K. The manufacturing of the vehicles themselves was not calculated.
But keep on buying them, I own stock in lithium and nickel mines.
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Read the same, if true, the production of an electric car causes far more pollution of the planet than a petrol car, and a person would need to drive the petrol car 50,000 miles to equal the extra pollution of the electric car production before they were equal. The good news is they have made a small electric car just for seniors, only £45,000 to go to the shops. Does anybody have a spare £45 grand kicking about?
 

Sippican said:
I'm invested in lithium mining and charging companies. So, I follow the industry closely.
There are two things that are troubling at this point.
1) the majority of lithium is in China, Brazil and Australia. China has the ability to flood the markets with cheap lithium, bring down prices. Brazil, is also a high producer but has more geopolitical instability so lithium investments are tricky as they could manipulate the markets as well. Australia is playing catchup. That, and the mining in Canada and new mines in the US could tamp down the costs and control of the deliver of product.
2) ChargePoint, being a charging station company is struggling to increase charging stations. Given that, the top auto manufactures are creating their own and forming agreements with Tesla to use their stations. Looks like they may be late to the game, or get bought out. Reliability of the charging stations are questionable as well. You may find charging stations, but many ports are broken, not operational, or are very slow. You can pay more, for a faster charge. That is where the increased costs of operating an EV comes in.

Plus, with the new taxes that will be assessed to make up for the lack of sales tax on gas, will make it even more expensive.
Thats why the US government is exploring paying tax based on miles driven not gas used. Which brings more privacy issues.
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The UK is to gain its first lithium mine in Cornwall after a British startup agreed a deal with a French mining company that could supply much of the country’s need for the crucial electric car battery mineral. I assume it will be a sort of Cottage Industry. I suggest you invest soon before Putin drops Satan-2 on the UK as he does not like us a lot.
 
What happens in the event of large traffic jams that may last for a while. A couple examples would be people evacuating an area due to fire, hurricane, etc.

I believe Tesla EV have the ability to find available charging stations through their GPS system. I can see the need for attendants to jockey EV around at locations such as hotels or some other means to keep EVU (electric vehicle user) from plugging in their car and going to bed. In the future, maybe every parking space will have a charging station, although that could be a nightmare if the area floods.

Hybrid make more sense for traveling longer distances.
 
Electric cars are still rare. As such, there is no money in building charging stations. In capitalism, charging stations will spring up like mushrooms once there is a need, and it will happen fast. Entrepreneurs don't sit around doing nothing, when there is money to be made.
 
There are basicall 3 types of chargers for EV's (Level 1, Level 2, and level 3)
Level 1 would be just 120 volts, which is a typical home outlet receptacle. It adds around 5 miles for every hour it is charging, so if you have your car plugged in from 6 PM to around 6 AM in the morning, then you have added about 60 miles of range.

Level 2 is a 240 volt charger, and you can have one installed at your home for around $1000 (Very rough estimate), and it will add somewhere around 50 miles for every hour of charge. You can also find Level 2 chargers on the road, and if you can find something to do with your time when charging, it is more economical than buying gas.

Level 3 is a fast charge, and can fully charge your EV in a half hour, but most likely not any cheaper than buying gas.

Where the savings comes in is mostly in maintenance (Much fewer parts). Gas engines are far more complex than electric, and far more temperamental. Once solid state batteries become mainstream in EV's (Within 3 to 5 years), the range will be almost doubled.
 
Avon said:
'
The UK is to gain its first lithium mine in Cornwall after a British startup agreed a deal with a French mining company that could supply much of the country’s need for the crucial electric car battery mineral. I assume it will be a sort of Cottage Industry. I suggest you invest soon before Putin drops Satan-2 on the UK as he does not like us a lot.
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Too much risk.
Any start-ups these days are at a disadvantage. If they are getting into the business now, they are about 10-15 years behind.
Plus, just the risk of political disruption makes them an even more risk to US investors.
 
There are a few non-technical issues with having an all-electric (as opposed to a hybrid) car.
1.There is some backlash from Luddite car owners who will park their gas powered cars in charging stations as a statement. So even if you carefully plan your trip, station to station, you may get stuck waiting for a 'protester'. Apparently there is not much pressure from the police.
2. Some e-car owners plug-in and walk away. You are stuck until they return even though their car is charged. These owners just have bad manners and usually apologize, but it's a delay you hadn't planned on.
As time goes on both of these issues are diminishing, but you still need to plan for them.
 
Going to be interesting over here where cars are parked bumper to bumper and people cannot find a parking place near their own homes, adding such cars are parked half on the pavements on both sides of narrow streets. Parking on pavements has just been made illegal with a hefty fine. Poor folk who have to enter central London for work have to pay two charges of over £7000 per year without parking fees’s. Rules for older drivers are changing by the day as are the rules of the roads. Diesel cars were made God over Petrol cars, and everybody fell for it. Now electric cars are the answer in the UK, except they will make little more than zero difference to the world's climate change.
 
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I'm totally clueless when it comes to electric cars so this post may sound dumb. I keep thinking about when I go to get gas, a lot of times I have to wait in line to get to a pump. It takes about 5 minutes for a car to get filled up and they are on their way. If we all had electric cars and had to wait in line to charge up, and it takes half an hour to charge, you could be at the charging station for an hour or more depending how long the line was. I don't think that will work out very well for most people.

Or maybe that scenario is totally wrong, considering people will charge up at home most of the time. But if you live in an apartment building, how do you charge the car? Also, I read the cost of installing the equipment to charge your car is really high. "The cost of upgrading your electrical panel to accommodate a home electric car charging station can range from $400 to $2000, and this is excluding the cost of a charging station itself which can add an additional $1000 to $2500."
I just don't understand how all this is supposed to work for the general population.

Between the cost of an electric car, exorbitant taxes, installing a charging station in your garage, probably having to get towed a few times, and the cost of a new battery if needed (I think they're only warrantied for 8 years), I don't see how the average Joe can afford all of this. If gas cars are going to be phased out and electric cars are going to be forced on us, I hope there's a plan in place for everyone to get on board with this new development. Especially for poverty level people or senior citizens who need a car but are living, month to month, on social security.

Just out of curiosity, will charging stations charge different amounts like gas stations do? Or is it "one price fits all" type of thing?
 
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caroln said:
I'm totally clueless when it comes to electric cars so this post may sound dumb. I keep thinking about when I go to get gas, a lot of times I have to wait in line to get to a pump. It takes about 5 minutes for a car to get filled up and they are on their way. If we all had electric cars and had to wait in line to charge up, and it takes half an hour to charge, you could be at the charging station for an hour or more depending how long the line was. I don't think that will work out very well for most people.

Or maybe that scenario is totally wrong, considering people will charge up at home most of the time. But if you live in an apartment building, how do you charge the car? Also, I read the cost of installing the equipment to charge your car is really high. "The cost of upgrading your electrical panel to accommodate a home electric car charging station can range from $400 to $2000, and this is excluding the cost of a charging station itself which can add an additional $1000 to $2500."
I just don't understand how all this is supposed to work for the general population.

Between the cost of an electric car, exorbitant taxes, installing a charging station in your garage, probably having to get towed a few times, and the cost of a new battery if needed (I think they're only warrantied for 8 years), I don't see how the average Joe can afford all of this. If gas cars are going to be phased out and electric cars are going to be forced on us, I hope there's a plan in place for everyone to get on board with this new development. Especially for poverty level people or senior citizens who need a car but are living, month to month, on social security.

Just out of curiosity, will charging stations charge different amounts like gas stations do? Or is it "one price fits all" type of thing?
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We shouldn't look at them like locations of gas stations.
Most EV folks charge their EVs at their own homes, overnight.
 
caroln said:
I'm totally clueless when it comes to electric cars so this post may sound dumb. I keep thinking about when I go to get gas, a lot of times I have to wait in line to get to a pump. It takes about 5 minutes for a car to get filled up and they are on their way. If we all had electric cars and had to wait in line to charge up, and it takes half an hour to charge, you could be at the charging station for an hour or more depending how long the line was. I don't think that will work out very well for most people.
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Probably depends on what brand of battery is used.

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My husband and I leased an EV. They were still relatively new, so still not a big infrastructure of charging stations. Plus, this early model had a 200 mile range. So not great for long distance travel.
He was happy with it. He used it as his work vehicle, and his employer let him park near a place to plug it in.
I personally would never do it again
 
Avon said:
Going to be interesting over here where cars are parked bumper to bumper and people cannot find a parking place near their own homes, adding such cars are parked half on the pavements on both sides of narrow streets. Parking on pavements has just been made illegal with a hefty fine. Poor folk who have to enter central London for work have to pay two charges of over £7000 per year without parking fees’s. Rules for older drivers are changing by the day as are the rules of the roads. Diesel cars were made God over Petrol cars, and everybody fell for it. Now electric cars are the answer in the UK, except they will make little more than zero difference to the world's climate change.
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For those that don't speak Brit....Pavements are what other countries call "sidewalks " where pedestrians walk. Lets remember that the roads and streets in the UK were originally intended to be used by horses and wagons, not automobiles or trucks. JimB.
 
jimintoronto said:
For those that don't speak Brit....Pavements are what other countries call "sidewalks " where pedestrians walk. Lets remember that the roads and streets in the UK were originally intended to be used by horses and wagons, not automobiles or trucks. JimB.
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Yes, Sorry Jim. My US conversions are indeed lacking, even the names of fish they catch. Just been out into the mad world where I cannot tell an electric car from a gas guzzler, and in our crazy little island electric cars will not make the purgatory of driving any better. Then finally I Turn off into our entrance lane and enter heaven and silence, where horses and carts still enjoy the bridleways and the birds sing and Buzzards soar.

IMG_1775.JPGIMG_1727.JPG
 
Avon said:
Yes, Sorry Jim. My US conversions are indeed lacking, even the names of fish they catch. Just been out into the mad world where I cannot tell an electric car from a gas guzzler, and in our crazy little island electric cars will not make the purgatory of driving any better. Then finally I Turn off into our entrance lane and enter heaven and silence, where horses and carts still enjoy the bridleways and the birds sing and Buzzards soar.

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The easy way to identify an electric car at a glance ........NO radiator opening in the front of the car. What we Canadians refer to as "the grill ". Can't say about the UK, but where I live the electric vehicles have a license plate that has the first 2 letters as "GV" for green vehicle, and the plate is white with green letters and numerals. Living in the largest city in Canada, the infrastructure for recharging electric batteries is growing, and many public parking garages now have charger units. The hospital that I go to has 12 charging spaces in a 300 car garage. The city of Toronto's Green P Parking lots are also being updated with charger stations. JimB.
 
ALso depends on where you live. In California there are a lot of recharging stations in urban areas: hotels, malls, parking garages, Tesla and county/state stand-alone recharging stations. Several auto companies will pay buyers to put in a charger hook-up at home with specific EV models.

If you live in rural, or extreme weather areas, EVs are more problematical. Extreme heat and cold are hard on the batteries, reducing range as well as their effective lifespan.

If I were to replace my ICE vehicle, I'd buy a Ford Mustang Mach-E GT. With an adapter they are able to plug into the Tesla supercharge network, which is the most extensive in the US.
 
I expect our next car will be electric, and if at all possible a Level 4 or 5 driver, which likely means a Tesla. In the meantime our old gas mobile will just have to do.
 
It seems to me that if you commute to work an electric car, charged at home, is a great way to go. I'm not sure of the savings vs gasoline but over a number of years it should be attractive.
If you often take long trips a Hybrid seems like a much better idea. You won't have to deal with "range anxiety" and worries that a charger will be available and working, or some neanderthal will be blocking the charger just to make a point.
Moreover, you can fill a Hybrid in minutes where an EV can take from 20 minutes to an hour. I drove several Camry Hybrids over the years and they were capable of close to 600 miles per tank. That's huge compared to the 250 to 300 miles on an electric.
 
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