Edward Snowden - The Untold Story

Thanks for the link SeaBreeze. I'm about 1/2 way through it to the point where it talks about a program developed by the NSA, called Monster Mind which had/has the potential to 'accidentally' start a war! 'Oops' just doesn't cut it in a case like that does it? Good article by the way.
 
Ralphy1 said:
Let him rot in Russia and enjoy a pizza with Putin...
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So you prefer the possibility of the NSA and their 'Monster Mind' program accidentally starting a nuclear war or violation of the Fourth Amendment (freedom from unreasonable searches), seizing private communications without reason or warrant. Now I'll bet years ago, when you heard about Russia spying on it's own people, making them disappear forever, arrests without warrant, you were horrified and called that government monstrous. And yet when ES sees your own government heading down that same path, you get all indignant. Quite amazing that you have no problem with your government spying on you for no reason. That's how it starts you know. First the secret spying, without warrants or reason on citizens, then citizens getting arrested without warrant or charges, no due process.....oh wait, your government can do that! http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...y-still-arrest-detain-citizens-without-charge

You trust your government an awful lot don't you? Once upon a time they had a rule or regulation or whatever it's called, that prohibited them from pressing the button on nuclear weapon deployment first. The nuke only came out of the garage if you were attacked, but recently that's been changed to first strike being allowed. Given the obvious American administration penchant for starting conflicts, that change in your own law should frighten you. Personally I don't trust your government. But then I don't even trust my own government these days because they've proven (like yours) that corporations rule.

Governmental secrecy will be the death of us all.
 
Snowden is a self-righteous prig who doesn't have the courage to come back and explain himself even if it means jail time. All of the major world powers engage in all kinds of doomsday scenarios...
 
Ralphy1 said:
Snowden is a self-righteous prig who doesn't have the courage to come back and explain himself even if it means jail time. All of the major world powers engage in all kinds of doomsday scenarios...
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So have you read anything written about him via interviews or listened to him on interviews or are you just riding on the coat-tails of mainstream media who have a government 'suggested' bias?
Did you bother to look at the article that was linked by Seabreeze? And what are your feelings about the fact that the American government did make a few 'adjustments' as a result of him exposing the fact that they're spying on you (the aging and possibly retired citizen)?
 
Read it and it is just justifying his behavior. If you want to blow the whistle then you must be ready to pay the piper...
 
Ralphy1 said:
Read it and it is just justifying his behavior. If you want to blow the whistle then you must be ready to pay the piper...
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Well at least you read it. Personally, I think he's a hero because he saw something that was wrong on all counts (that was harming you even if you didn't realize it) and he was willing to walk away from his life for a principal. Just like Bradley Manning did. And (Bradley) is locked up by the way while those Apache helicopter murderers are still free and sitting in a bar somewhere and trading stories about how many civilians and reporters they blew away that day in Iraq. Goes to show where righteousness exists and doesn't exist doesn't it?

And in a sense, he has paid if revenge is your thing. He can never go home, he's had to live in a foreign country and has to worry that the CIA will pop out of the shadows at any time and he will disappear forever (thank you Mr. Obama!). He has a great deal of courage in my opinion, going up against a government that seems to have no scruples.

Any comments on the 'changes' that the American government claims to have made in light of his revelations, not to mention the various new laws concerning 'due process, arrests without charges, indefinite imprisonoment, etc.). How do you feel about those things and the loss of rights as an American citizen?
 
Sorry, but all of the justification in the world does not justify his cowardly flight from justice. Maybe he and Julian can share a pizza some day...
 
So you have no opinion than or just don't want to answer any questions? What about Bradley Manning? He's paying for his 'crime'. What do you think of the revelations that came from him? The actions of the Apache helicopter crew? Any comment? Or do you approve of what happened that day in Baghdad?

Or is it that you are afraid that the NSA is 'listening' and you don't want to wind up on a no-fly list?

Personally, I'm already comfortable with the likelihood that I will be denied entry to the USA (no more Disneyland for me), because I have to admit that I'm rather outspoken about what I see as abuses and lies coming out of the American administration.
 
Ralphy1 said:
You are definitely on one of our watch lists... :D
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Yeah, gotta keep the lies, corruption and abuses secret right?

Once upon a time American's cared about civil liberties, freedom, etc., but not so much now. Scared I guess so they're getting comfortable with losing those things.

The problem that I see is that your fear means the rest of the world suffers because of it. Too bad for us I guess.



(Probably not a good idea to get too cocky Ralph because until you die, your government still has the right to come after you and not give you a reason. Who knows, maybe you are on some list somewhere.)
 
Personally, there are very few in Washington who I would trust any further than I could throw them....and that goes from the bureaucrats all the way to the occupant of the White House. There probably aren't more than a handful who give a rats rear about the average person.
 
SeaBreeze said:
You can now watch Citizenfour, his documentary here. I saw part of it on TV. Snowden is a hero as far as I'm concerned, I'm glad he had the nerve to speak up. http://billmoyers.com/2015/03/02/watch-oscar-winning-citizenfour-free-now/
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As a computer enthusiast I get the significance of Snowden's actions, in revealing the degree to which we all have had constitutional rights abridged by NSA practices. Too bad that he chose the route he took, whistle blowers are always villianized, never regarded as heroes.
 
It sounded like he knew he would be villianized, but he wanted to get the truth out and I respect him for that.
 
I think if someone is going to be a "Hero" for the better of the USA...and break laws doing so.. he/she should be Hero enough to stay in the country they profess to love and face whatever consequences that may bring. THAT is being a "Hero" for the good of the country... not running off and ending up somewhere that would be more than happy to.. (and most definitely has) abscond with additional sensitive information in his possession. I have no respect for someone like that.. but really would have if he had stayed and faced the music for his cause. IMO Snowden is nothing more than a cowardly little grandstander who got more than he bargained for with his theatrics. Let him stay in Russia and enjoy.
 
Ralphy1 said:
Well said, QS!
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Thanks Ralphy, but this is one area where I part company with some of my Liberal brethren. I personally am glad that surveillance is going on.. even IF someone happens to read MY emails... ( they will see my scrabble games) OR listens to my phone calls.. ( they will know when my dog is going for his grooming), and this helps stop or contain terrorist activities here and abroad... I have no problem with it.
 
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