Entire Side of Condo Building Collapses Near Miami Beach

I'm just skeptical of this source not the glacier activity.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...elt-Denying-University-Professor-and-Attorney

"Now, we were curious about Lysander Spooner University, which Roots apparently founded. Turns out it’s not exactly a university, but more of “a libertarian blog.” It does, apparently, have classes, including a course on “Government Myths and Lies about Climate Change.” It was held last year “in the sidewalk area in front of” a coffee shop."
 

Happyflowerlady said:
This has been said for some time now, but seems not to be actually happening. Glacier Park in Montana said that the glacier would be melted by 2020, but when it was still there, they had to remove the sign.
http://lysanderspooneruniversity.co...-park-quietly-removes-its-gone-by-2020-signs/

Here is one of the many pictures showing that the ocean level has not risen as much as they are saying.


View attachment 171184
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Just my observation: The 2018 photo shows a water mark above the water level-photo was taken at low tide? No such water line is visible in the 1878 photo. By itself this doesn't mean anything, but what time were each of these pictures taken? I haven't read the article yet I'm only basing this on looking at the photos.
 

Florida family gets 16 calls from grandparents who remain unaccounted for in condo collapse.​


Clinging to a sliver of hope in the Surfside condo tower collapse, one family says it has received 16 calls from a landline belonging to their grandparents, who are among the 156 unaccounted for as rescuers continue to search the rubble.

Arnie and Myriam Notkin lived on the third floor in the south wing of the 12-story building that inexplicably collapsed early Thursday morning.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/surfside-16-calls-missing-grandparents-condo-collapse-champlain-towers
 
SeaBreeze said:
Did anyone see the flashes of light at the top of the building when it started to crash down? Did anyone on the news ever say what that was?

Info about the building construction.
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-u...ctural-damage-engineers-report-surfside-miami

Photos:
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-u...tion-wrought-by-the-florida-building-collapse
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Looking at the concrete spall or peeling/dropping chunks. Even though neglect that's the outside of the building which could lead to running water making to the foundation over time but even then that wouldn't that be the outside or outer edge support.

When you look at the photos of the collapse it looks too even which could mean a large area foundation area or support failures at once or cascading fashion. Also wouldn't a 'peeling' or partial collapse occur first.

Too me there are just too many buildings built around that time and before that would've failed before. There's something unique here it could be faulty materials, construction or the right combination of factors.
 
Having worked in industrial construction I don't understand the "slicing" collapse. I believe in commercial construction the buildings are erected by floors. There this looks impossible to happen. An uneducated guess would be someone switched the types of concrete at some point with the collapsed section being the different type. Has anyone seen an interview with a construction engineer or architect yet? I have not.
 
It was never safe to build high rise condos on barrier islands and it was known at the time of Surfside's construction in the 1981. The sand and mud composition of barrier islands shift.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-experts-say-barrier-islands-present-n1272316

Excerpt: (Emphasis mine)

Another issue at hand for the Surfside community is one shared with all of Miami Beach: The towns are built on a barrier island. Climate scientists and geologists have long warned that these islands cannot be developed responsibly. They are made of a loose mixture of sand and mud and provide a natural protection for the shoreline.​
​
“These are very dynamic features. We didn’t understand that these islands actually migrate until the 1970s,” said Orrin Pilkey, a professor emeritus of geology at Duke University who has long studied sea-level rise and the over-development of the coast. “As sea level rises, they move back.”​
 
AnnieA said:
It was never safe to build high rise condos on barrier islands and it was known at the time of Surfside's construction in the 1981. The sand and mud composition of barrier islands shift.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-experts-say-barrier-islands-present-n1272316

Excerpt: (Emphasis mine)

Another issue at hand for the Surfside community is one shared with all of Miami Beach: The towns are built on a barrier island. Climate scientists and geologists have long warned that these islands cannot be developed responsibly. They are made of a loose mixture of sand and mud and provide a natural protection for the shoreline.​
​
“These are very dynamic features. We didn’t understand that these islands actually migrate until the 1970s,” said Orrin Pilkey, a professor emeritus of geology at Duke University who has long studied sea-level rise and the over-development of the coast. “As sea level rises, they move back.”​
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I can see more jettys coming now. I know road or bayside alot of that area is on or near lots of rock. Wonder how much they had to level or fill in that area. They say landfill was used to fill alot of that in. Not sure what landfill was back in the 1920s although most from bottom of a bay.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia...Fisher and,Venetian Islands except Belle Isle.
 
Jules said:
40 years ago. If they’re lucky, they’re deceased.
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Hey, I was a practicing engineer in the 80s, and still kicking. But I get your point, no one would want the burden of knowing they contributed to something like this.

It seems like to me the failure is probably related to foundation failure due to settlement, either built on soft sediments or a sink hole. Buildings can be safely engineered and built in this environment, but it takes money, and not many developers want to spend any more than the bare minimum. It is still early, and possible some other cause will be found, I am just speculating...
 
Early comments said the building was sinking at a rate of 1mm (.039") per year. My first question for how many years? I'm not convinced it was foundation related. I'm sticking with my materials theory.
 
fmdog44 said:
the building was sinking at a rate of 1mm (.039") per year
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That is a lot, ~1.6 inches in its ~40 year lifetime. However not enough alone to cause failure, especially if it was uniform. Differential settlement is the problem.
fmdog44 said:
I'm sticking with my materials theory
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Maybe, too early to know. I am only speculating based on a couple of structural failures I have been involved with (after the fact) in south Florida. And a little understanding of the geotechnical issues on Miami Beach. Not on any real knowledge, none in this particular case.

As the investigation proceeds we should be able to figure it out, but that will take time...
 
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Saw one interview where some family members are angry more debris isn't being removed to find survivors. They were told it's too dangerous for rescuers.

The only hope is that it wasn't as full as they think.

RIP
 
Evidently, the 1918 building inspector report shoed crumbling concrete and exposed rebar.
Doesn't that call for immediate close down of the building and immediate evacuation?
There always seems to be water seepage in oceanfront properties. Were shortcuts used in the construction?
There will be so many lawsuits from this
Who takes responsibility/ The architect? the contractor? the sub-contractors? the building inspector?
This is such a sad and preventable occurrence. My heart goes out to the loved ones.
 
@Gaer Responsibility will probably be on everyone you listed plus the Strata Council. One article I read said they delayed making a decision for repairs for 18 months. This could have been because of needing agreement for the $15 million from the owners. Owners had to pay between $80K to $300K
 
Buckeye said:
With each passing day, the hopes of finding any survivors in the ruble are greatly diminished. My heart aches for the families of those poor "unaccounted for" souls.
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Even if someone survived the initial collapse (which is unlikely), there would be no way to breathe. Each breath would include dust, plaster, smoke, whatever is in broken sewer pipes & who knows what else. That's assuming no serious injuries (also unlikely).
The survivors would envy the dead.
 
fmdog44 said:
I'm sticking with my materials theory
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As I see more I think you may be at least partially right. The "clean" collapse and reports of structural problems before the collapse...

I have also heard reports that a lot of other buildings in the area, and of the same age, are exhibiting similar problems. Not too surprising, but worrisome. Might soon be a good time to find a bargain on a Miami Beach condo! Well maybe a bargain, kind of depends on what happens to these places. Something was different about this one, that or the others are just about to go, hopefully that gets figured out quickly. I would hope this building had some very unique problem, not found in others, but I kind of doubt that is the case...

My best poorly supported guess at this point is some combination of poor materials and deterioration, coupled with some kind of foundation settlement. Not unusual for something like this to have several contributing causes. I am sure we will be hearing more about this in the not to distant future.
win231 said:
Even if someone survived the initial collapse (which is unlikely), there would be no way to breathe. Each breath would include dust, plaster, smoke, whatever is in broken sewer pipes & who knows what else. That's assuming no serious injuries (also unlikely).
The survivors would envy the dead.
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I suspect very few people survived the initial collapse, I believe (and hope) most met a quick and painless death, not knowing what was happening. I do still, of course, hope that survivors will be found, but that is seeming less and less likely as time goes along. At this point I suspect the only remaining "survivors" amongst the missing are those who were out of town and out of communication.
 


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