For better or worse, (its meaning in an age of high divorce rates)

grahamg

Old codger
The conventional wedding vows as we all know go like this:
""In the name of God, I, _____, take you, _____, to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, until parted by death."

Here are some views on the topic:
https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-bo...hat-is-the-meaning-of-for-better-or-for-worse

Quote:
"Just think about the meaning of the words in our wedding vows—“for better or for worse . . . in plenty and in want . . . in joy and in sorrow . . .in sickness and in health . . . as long as we both shall live.” What a commitment we make in that moment of time, with “God and these witnesses” listening! Are these just empty words of tradition, or do they represent a genuine promise of commitment? The longevity and quality of your marriage depends upon it!

Commitment is a mindset . . . an attitude . . . a way of thinking that will enable you and your spouse to navigate through the still waters and the storms of a marriage relationship. Charles Swindoll (Strike the Original Match) compares working on marriage to remodeling a house:

It takes longer than you planned
It costs more than you figured
It is messier than you anticipated
It requires greater determination than you expected
Sometimes the only thing that keeps us going is hope!

(Break)

"Here are just a few factors that may be present in any marriage that undermine unconditional commitment:

  • Self-centeredness and stubbornness. Put simply, we are sinners, and central to our sinfulness is the choice of self-gratification. Several years ago a young man shared his personal story with an adult Sunday School group I was teaching. He had asked my permission to “bare his soul” before his friends. He shared that he had been having an affair for two years, and had now repented before the Lord and was seeking the forgiveness of his wife. You could have heard a pin drop in the room as we were all asked to become an “accountability group” for this young man. Their marriage was restored, and his story revealed that his own selfishness, self-gratification, and stubbornness had been at the root of the problem. Only commitment to his wife brought them back to a healthy marriage.
  • Spiritual and Emotional “baggage” from the past. Past experiences, especially unresolved sins or habit patterns, will haunt any marriage relationship and prevent intimacy and commitment. Bitterness toward God or others . . . inability to fully know forgiveness for a past sin . . . all of these emotional/spiritual handicaps will seriously limit the depth of commitment we can make. We must deal with these before God, and sometimes the help of a skilled Christian counselor can be just the thing we need.
  • Lack of clarity about the true meaning of marriage. This is another kind of “baggage.” If you have never seen an example of a healthy marriage, either in family or friendship circles, you will have a difficult time finding that for yourself.
  • Busy-ness. Most couples do not allow enough meaningful time spent together to nurture their commitment.
  • Poor communication skills. I want to elaborate more on this point in my next blog, but commitment includes expression to your spouse. How I do that (or fail to do so) is crucial in a healthy marriage.
 

A more modern version of the wedding vows:

Speaking your marriage vows​

(Officiant)"Celebrating the uniting of two people in this way proclaims in public what was decided in the private corners of the heart. It proclaims the couple's belief that they are meant to be together, and that they are ready to embrace the future together. *** and *** wish to pledge their vows to each other before us today."

(Man) "I, ***, take you, ***, to be my equal partner in love, life, and law, today, tomorrow, and forever. I promise to treat you with dignity, respect your need to be alone at times, help you when you need help, and turn to you first when I need help."

(Woman) "I, ***, take you, ***, to be my equal partner in love, life, and law, today, tomorrow, and forever. I promise to share your joy and sorrow, to help you heal when the world wounds you, and to help you find beauty in everything."
 
Hubby and I were married in a church ceremony in 1963. The vows were the traditional ones with one exception. I refused to vow obedience to my husband.

At the time I was an atheist and pregnant. It would have been easy to lay those vows aside in later years when the going got rough but atheist or not, pregnant or not, I stood up before family and friends and of my own free will made those solemn vows and I held myself to them. At times they were the only thing that prevented me from running away.

The other thing was the children. I could not contemplate leaving them nor could I justify taking them away from their father. So I stayed and we overcame our difficulties. Next year in March we celebrate 60 years of marriage with our two children, our six grandchildren and by then our two great grandchildren, plus all their partners or ex partners and wider family, some of whom were present all those years ago in the church when we wed.
 
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My second marriage was an Islamic one. We didn't say those vows. I don't believe in "for better or worse". What if the worse is that the husband is abusive? What if he's a slacker? Naahhh!
You dont believe in saying those words, (I'm questioning it too as you know, though I doubt leaving too many get out clauses in marriage vows will be a good idea either).
 
You dont believe in saying those words, (I'm questioning it too as you know, though I doubt leaving too many get out clauses in marriage vows will be a good idea either).
Graham, as we say "talk is cheap". How many people have said those words and either didn't mean them from the get-go or fell short, then wound up divorcing. The words don't make the marriage...the actions do. If love and commitment are strong enough and the problems can be ironed out, the marriage will survive.
 
Graham, as we say "talk is cheap". How many people have said those words and either didn't mean them from the get-go or fell short, then wound up divorcing. The words don't make the marriage...the actions do. If love and commitment are strong enough and the problems can be ironed out, the marriage will survive.
That's what the above website says too! :)
 
Getting married should be made as difficult as getting divorced. Perhaps then people might think more carefully before taking any vows. Also, marriage itself has changed. It used to be a partnership, both working together to take care of a home and raise children. These days, people expect emotional satisfaction too.
I think it is because women value themselves more and expect a more satisfying relationship, that so many marriages break up. Women realise they don't have to put up with being badly treated.
The big white church wedding is what most girls want. They shouldn't really have it if it means nothing to them. Better to be honest and just have the civil wedding.
 
Getting married should be made as difficult as getting divorced. Perhaps then people might think more carefully before taking any vows. Also, marriage itself has changed. It used to be a partnership, both working together to take care of a home and raise children. These days, people expect emotional satisfaction too.
I think it is because women value themselves more and expect a more satisfying relationship, that so many marriages break up. Women realise they don't have to put up with being badly treated.
The big white church wedding is what most girls want. They shouldn't really have it if it means nothing to them. Better to be honest and just have the civil wedding.
Essentially then these "wedding vows" I found on a website this morning and posted above, would more accurately reflect what so many getting hitched these days perhaps could fairly commit themselves to, rather "for better or worse etc.":

Speaking your marriage vows​

(Officiant)"Celebrating the uniting of two people in this way proclaims in public what was decided in the private corners of the heart. It proclaims the couple's belief that they are meant to be together, and that they are ready to embrace the future together. *** and *** wish to pledge their vows to each other before us today."

(Man) "I, ***, take you, ***, to be my equal partner in love, life, and law, today, tomorrow, and forever. I promise to treat you with dignity, respect your need to be alone at times, help you when you need help, and turn to you first when I need help."

(Woman) "I, ***, take you, ***, to be my equal partner in love, life, and law, today, tomorrow, and forever. I promise to share your joy and sorrow, to help you heal when the world wounds you, and to help you find beauty in everything."
 
Reality vows of the last few decades

Officiant;
For the love of god why??!!

Man;
Sex

Woman;
His house and pool....oh, and his car...and boat

Officiant;
I pronounce you partners, equals, whatever
For however long it shall last
You may kiss, hug, shake hands....whatever
 
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Reality vows of the last few decades. Officiant; For the love of god why??!!
Man; Sex
Woman; His house and pool....oh, and his car...and boat
Officiant; I pronounce you partners, equals, whatever. For however long it shall last You may kiss, hug, shake hands....whatever
Shaking hands would seem most appropriate after such a service wouldn't it.
(Its not what we really think though when a couple marries is it,...., I once knew a guy working here who was from the USA who had three teenage daughters, and before any of them married he was already expecting two out of the three to end up divorced, and planning for such an eventuality!).
 
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Personally, I have come to believe that marriage should never be an agreement for "better or worse til death do us part"In the first place; we humans generally live much longer that they did at the time that became embedded in the marriage vows and people grow and otherwise change a lot over that time span. They acquire different ideals and opinions - or even political and religious or even atheistic ideals. Even the world around them changes. The person you are in your mid twenties may not be the person you become at 40, 50 or even 60 - the same is true for your spouse.
 
Personally, I have come to believe that marriage should never be an agreement for "better or worse til death do us part"In the first place; we humans generally live much longer that they did at the time that became embedded in the marriage vows and people grow and otherwise change a lot over that time span. They acquire different ideals and opinions - or even political and religious or even atheistic ideals. Even the world around them changes. The person you are in your mid twenties may not be the person you become at 40, 50 or even 60 - the same is true for your spouse.
Do you figure they should sign up for a specific length of time, and then later decide if they want to renew it? :ROFLMAO:
 
Graham, as we say "talk is cheap". How many people have said those words and either didn't mean them from the get-go or fell short, then wound up divorcing. The words don't make the marriage...the actions do. If love and commitment are strong enough and the problems can be ironed out, the marriage will survive.
@OneEyedDiva , well said, talk is cheap, the proof-of-the-pudding is the actions there-in.
 
Its not what we really think though is it when a couple marries is it
Of course, not

I consider marriage vows most sacred

Heh, in my young days, seems if you weren't married by 18, you had something wrong with you

So, in reality, society has been screwed up for a very long time

Now?
The vows of trust are debased into vows of distrust, prenups and such

I'm bettin' us old folks, if considering getting married, or remarried, due to a spouse's death, or even (especially) divorce, use some pretty good judgment goin' in
 
Personally, I have come to believe that marriage should never be an agreement for "better or worse til death do us part"In the first place; we humans generally live much longer that they did at the time that became embedded in the marriage vows and people grow and otherwise change a lot over that time span. They acquire different ideals and opinions - or even political and religious or even atheistic ideals. Even the world around them changes. The person you are in your mid twenties may not be the person you become at 40, 50 or even 60 - the same is true for your spouse.
You raise good points, but somehow I still cling to the belief the expert human/animal behaviourist I often quote had it right when he suggested higher divorce rates would lead to a host of broken hearted people, (Desmond Morris being the guy, though funnily enough I don't consider myself broken hearted though I've loved and lost a few times! :) ).
 
Of course, not
I consider marriage vows most sacred
Heh, in my young days, seems if you weren't married by 18, you had something wrong with you
So, in reality, society has been screwed up for a very long time
Now? The vows of trust are debased into vows of distrust, prenups and such
I'm bettin' us old folks, if considering getting married, or remarried, due to a spouse's death, or even (especially) divorce, use some pretty good judgment goin' in
I didn't used to think this way, but admit I've sat listening to at least one wedding ceremony in church wondering how long it would last!
 
Personally, I have come to believe that marriage should never be an agreement for "better or worse til death do us part"In the first place; we humans generally live much longer that they did at the time that became embedded in the marriage vows and people grow and otherwise change a lot over that time span. They acquire different ideals and opinions - or even political and religious or even atheistic ideals. Even the world around them changes. The person you are in your mid twenties may not be the person you become at 40, 50 or even 60 - the same is true for your spouse.
Yes, "To have and to hold from this day forward for as long as we want to"
 

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