God has a plan. An observation and a question.

[PeppermintPatty]

Good call

Isaiah 1:18 KJV
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD

We shall!
We shall.

 

[sailormann]

I won't continue to argue about what I write below regardless of responses because seriously arguing about religious subjects has little value on informal social web boards like this beyond offering one time opinions. My input will serve purpose as an example of how such might be discussed without indicating I will address posts by others anytime I read something I disagree with.

should be:
But God IS man made to @VaughanJB.

should be:
@VaughanJB struggles knowing things today, let alone then!

Indeed some do rationalize other's authoritative explanations, especially of religious authorities, but that doesn't at all mean one ought consider just their explanations. The web today given the rise of science, has some alternative possible explanations however one will need to search the web and read parts of The Bible.



IMO, limited thinking just accepting interpretations of religious authorities without obviously even studying the actual subject. First one has to reject as I briefly wrote above three primary dogmas. Maybe what you call "God" is just from a race of UIEs with physical limitations.

If so maybe after tending to myriad organic life planets within the Galaxy much less the universe, they looked at our negative tendencies and concluded we Earth monkeys were likely to eventually destroy it all once we became a technological society. Not because of the simplistic Genesis story possibly recorded by our science primitives but because they had already experienced that on many other worlds where intelligent life arose. That might be what religious authorities call "original sin". So "God" might have had little to do as to how we obvious creatures evolved, much less our negative behaviors and actions. They seem to have genetically enhanced Adam but that had limited results. Anthropology science speculates on how homo sapiens behaviors may have evolved.

There is little scripture wise in either the OT or NT beyond vague statements narrowly interpreted that relates one might burn in eternal hell. The synoptic gospels otherwise, especially direct Jesus statements, just tend to state people will die without eternal life ending existence.



Virgin birth is one of the easiest Bible stories to look at differently. The race of Angels could have easily put her to sleep with an anesthetic, and implanted DNA into her egg that they had been working on improving since Adam's days. Note Adam and Eve were obviously NOT the first homo sapiens but rather if any of that can be believed, the first they attempted to improve that is reflected in how his offspring lived for hundreds of years until Noah's days when genetic diffusion reduced that to current lifetimes.


Once again church dogmas. There is nothing but vague narrowly interpreted scripture that describes the nature of "God" much less when he might have began if that was so.

I'm open to all opinions, especially ones which can neither be proved nor disproved. The idea of a super race manipulating DNA is actually quite intriguing to me. If you haven't already you might take a look at the book of Enoch. It was a book excluded from the Hebrew cannon for expressing ideas very much like the ones you are suggesting here. I have always loved a good mystery. And a lively and spirited, open-minded and intelligent conversation. Thanks for jumping in and sharing your thoughts and feelings.

 

[VaughanJB]

The big bang Theory. What a novel idea, that everything spontaneously burst into being out of nothing in an instant with no cause and for no reason. This seems to defy every law of physics these same scientists profess to employ. It's like they are saying, just allow us this one miracle and we will explain all the rest. The big bang Theory has become so popular in modern imagination that it has taken on the mantle of religion itself.

It's just science. They have detected the fact that the universe is expanding. They have seen the direction, and have followed its course, and it comes down to a single point in space. So, logically, the universe expanded from this single point, and we call that the big bang.

But don't confuse words and their meaning. For example, no-one seriously believes we "came from nothing". That is a simplification which is over-used. The fact is, we don't know what that single point was, and what it consisted of. We can be sure, it wasn't "nothing". We can't test it, because we've never been able to isolate "nothing" and get it into a lab. As such, it's currently an unknown. We need to be comfortable with unknowns. We need to accept things we don't know rather than plugging that hole in our knowledge with a story the suits our monkey brains.

However, belief in the Big Bang is nothing like a religion. Religion requires faith - which is the word we use when we lack evidence. We have evidence for the big bang. So, it's not a religion, it's simply, a fact. In this case, it represents the best explanation based on the currently available evidence. If new evidence comes to light, then we would adjust our idea. This is simply how science works.

Besides, even in your context, is it really any stranger than believing there is a God that had no beginning and no end, who created everything in 6 days? I think not.

I thought it was a good word choice. We should balance our spiritually with a bit of logic.

And what’s wrong with adding a bit of logic to this big bang theory?

Logic based on facts, perhaps. But since there is no evidence of a God, then you're applying logic based on nothing. Earth, in either take, did not require logic to exist. The trouble with applying "logic" left and right is that it's often used to bypass the hard questions. Perhaps you could give me a specific instance of where something happened "logically"?

Good call

Isaiah 1:18 KJV
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD

Isaiah is in the old testament. That's the book where we're told women who have intercourse outside of marriage should be set on fire, where slavery is supported, and where anyone who works on the sabbath should be put to death. Among other weirdness. I'm always cautious of cherry-picking things like this - there was a new covenant for a reason - the Old Testament is brutal!


ps: If I offend anyone, and their belief, in my posts, please let me know and I will cease/edit. The very last thing I want to do is to cause any anger or upset. I hope we can embrace different points of view, but if not I'll gladly be the one to withdraw.

 

[VaughanJB]

The idea of a super race manipulating DNA is actually quite intriguing to me.

We're not so far off being able to do this. It's unimaginable to me that we won't be routinely altering DNA to prevent disease, or disabilities at some point in our time line. I'm not saying I'm pro and anti, because depending on how it's used, it could be miraculous or heinous, but there will come a point where we can fix things in the womb, and to not do so will be cruel. IMO.

 

[Pepper]

but there will come a point where we can fix things in the womb, and to not do so will be cruel. IMO.

Not in this climate. This climate "the crueler the better." Depends on who "wins."

 

[VaughanJB]

Not in this climate. This climate "the crueler the better." Depends on who "wins."

I hear you. Plus, if something can be abused, you know it will be.

We're entering some very different times. For example, insurance companies are gearing up for the new world of EV's. In ten years or less they will collect the data from your car at all times. They will then use this data, in real time, to adjust the cost of your policy. Told them you only use the car to go back and forth to work? They'll know if it's true. Speeding? They'll know. Overload the car? They got it. Didn't wear a seat belt? It's recorded. And so on.......

People will talk about "Big Brother", but from a business standpoint it's simply ensuring people are paying for what they need. The insurance game is all about blame, and if they can find ways to deny your claim, they will. Opting out won't be an option, because they'll simply deny you a policy with all that entails.

With DNA, we can extend this to before our birth. Check the DNA, find errors, fix them before you've taken your first breath. It's coming.........

 

[Liberty]

“It is not more surprising to be born twice than once; everything in nature is resurrection.”
​

― Voltaire

 

[Gary O']

Isaiah is in the old testament. That's the book where we're told women who have intercourse outside of marriage should be set on fire, where slavery is supported, and where anyone who works on the sabbath should be put to death. Among other weirdness. I'm always cautious of cherry-picking things like this - there was a new covenant for a reason - the Old Testament is brutal!

It is brutal
He had to reach them where they were

Get their attention

The Israelites practiced some horrific things

If I offend anyone, and their belief, in my posts, please let me know and I will cease/edit. The very last thing I want to do is to cause any anger or upset. I hope we can embrace different points of view, but if not I'll gladly be the one to withdraw.

No worries on my part
This stuff has been hashed and rehashed for 1000s of years.

Nothing new

 

[Pepper]

According to midrashim, these punishments were very rarely, if ever, carried out. There is no good evidence that they were.

 

[VaughanJB]

According to midrashim, these punishments were very rarely, if ever, carried out. There is no good evidence that they were.

I'm not sure how we can know if they were ever carried out. However, they are part of the Old Testament, and apparently were a-okay with God. That's the issue. I mean, how many instances is too many? 100? 1000? 1?

 

[Pepper]

I don't have enough knowledge to cogently answer that.

 

[PeppermintPatty]

The big bang Theory. What a novel idea,

lol

It's just science. They have detected the fact that the universe is expanding. They have seen the direction, and have followed its course, and it comes down to a single point in space. So, logically, the universe expanded from this single point, and we call that the big bang.

But don't confuse words and their meaning. For example, no-one seriously believes we "came from nothing". That is a simplification which is over-used. The fact is, we don't know what that single point was, and what it consisted of. We can be sure, it wasn't "nothing". We can't test it, because we've never been able to isolate "nothing" and get it into a lab. As such, it's currently an unknown. We need to be comfortable with unknowns. We need to accept things we don't know rather than plugging that hole in our knowledge with a story the suits our monkey brains.

However, belief in the Big Bang is nothing like a religion. Religion requires faith - which is the word we use when we lack evidence. We have evidence for the big bang. So, it's not a religion, it's simply, a fact. In this case, it represents the best explanation based on the currently available evidence. If new evidence comes to light, then we would adjust our idea. This is simply how science works.

Besides, even in your context, is it really any stranger than believing there is a God that had no beginning and no end, who created everything in 6 days? I think not.



Logic based on facts, perhaps. But since there is no evidence of a God, then you're applying logic based on nothing. Earth, in either take, did not require logic to exist. The trouble with applying "logic" left and right is that it's often used to bypass the hard questions. Perhaps you could give me a specific instance of where something happened "logically"?



Isaiah is in the old testament. That's the book where we're told women who have intercourse outside of marriage should be set on fire, where slavery is supported, and where anyone who works on the sabbath should be put to death. Among other weirdness. I'm always cautious of cherry-picking things like this - there was a new covenant for a reason - the Old Testament is brutal!


ps: If I offend anyone, and their belief, in my posts, please let me know and I will cease/edit. The very last thing I want to do is to cause any anger or upset. I hope we can embrace different points of view, but if not I'll gladly be the one to withdraw.

Exactly. As humans we HAVE applied logic to the Big Bang theory and got answers. Maybe GOD is actually all the things that we can’t explain including time & space, quantum mechanics, dark matter, ( most of matter is unseeable, untouchable, and basically undiscovered ) Like the universe starting from a single point, yet we can’t find that single point. Maybe all that stuff we don’t know about that seems magical, we call God.

What about the intelligence in a single seed. A bird drops a sunflower or apple seed and with the right conditions, turns into a beautiful flower with enough seeds to make more sunflower seeds or feed hundreds of birds and other animals. The apple seed turns into an entire tree which bears fruit each season.
What is the force that keeps hearts beating?
Where does that energy come from.

Molecularly we are all connected together but we don’t see that. If we did see that, would we change how we think. Apparently we are all part of a hologram.

As humans, we DO try and add logic to everything but unfortunately most of this stuff is WAY over our head and we will probably be extinct so will never discover it.

Maybe God is the name we give to all the stuff we don’t yet know. Collectively we assigned all the different types of weather to ‘Mother Nature.’ Before the idea of Mother Nature came along, we’d just assume thunder and lightening was Gods way of showing his anger. When things happen that we dislike regarding the weather, many of us blame God or say if there is a God, this wouldn’t happen?

We are the ones who label whether things are either good or bad. If lightning strikes and people die or get injured, we blame God. Floods that wipe out hundreds of thousands of people, many blame God. We create blame to things we don’t like and we praise God to things we do like. We as a human species created good and bad. We often label things we know nothing about as evil.

If God is the name we give to a force we can’t possibly explain, maybe the Bible is the book we created to try and explain things we don’t understand.

You explained the Big Bang theory better than anything if ever written thus far so I thank you.
That was very enlightening.
Thank you

 

[VaughanJB]

lol

Exactly. As humans we HAVE applied logic to the Big Bang theory and got answers. Maybe GOD is actually all the things that we can’t explain including time & space, quantum mechanics, dark matter, ( most of matter is unseeable, untouchable, and basically undiscovered ) Like the universe starting from a single point, yet we can’t find that single point. Maybe all that stuff we don’t know about that seems magical, we call God.

What about the intelligence in a single seed. A bird drops a sunflower or apple seed and with the right conditions, turns into a beautiful flower with enough seeds to make more sunflower seeds or feed hundreds of birds and other animals. The apple seed turns into an entire tree which bears fruit each season.
What is the force that keeps hearts beating?
Where does that energy come from.

Molecularly we are all connected together but we don’t see that. If we did see that, would we change how we think. Apparently we are all part of a hologram.

As humans, we DO try and add logic to everything but unfortunately most of this stuff is WAY over our head and we will probably be extinct so will never discover it.

Maybe God is the name we give to all the stuff we don’t yet know. Collectively we assigned all the different types of weather to ‘Mother Nature.’ Before the idea of Mother Nature came along, we’d just assume thunder and lightening was Gods way of showing his anger. When things happen that we dislike regarding the weather, many of us blame God or say if there is a God, this wouldn’t happen?

We are the ones who label whether things are either good or bad. If lightning strikes and people die or get injured, we blame God. Floods that wipe out hundreds of thousands of people, many blame God. We create blame to things we don’t like and we praise God to things we do like. We as a human species created good and bad. We often label things we know nothing about as evil.

If God is the name we give to a force we can’t possibly explain, maybe the Bible is the book we created to try and explain things we don’t understand.

You explained the Big Bang theory better than anything if ever written thus far so I thank you.
That was very enlightening.
Thank you

The Bible is a marvelous book. It codifies a lot of things, and tells us something of the old world. It's message is somewhat comfortable because I was born in the West, in a nation of Christians. It's also full on contradictions. The Old Testament is nightmarish in parts. Much of the Bible simply repeats tales that had earlier been told. For example, there are examples of resurrection that date from before Bible (Tammuz, Osiris, etc.) The flood myth wasn't new to the Bible. We have stories of Krishna that was supposedly born of a virgin, was a carpenter, and was baptized in a river, and so on. All pre-date anything written in the Bible. Is it coincidence?

Then you get to the question of "what is consciousness"? That's a philosophical question, not a religious one for me. It's also above my pay grade.

 

[chic]

Man invented gods and invented religion. Thankfully God isn’t man made. We’d **** that up for sure.

But if man invented gods and religion wouldn't God fall into that category?

 

[Pepper]

But if man invented gods and religion wouldn't God fall into that category?

IMO YES.

 

[chic]

IMO YES.

Yes, this is my feeling also. Why does anyone believe there would be limits on invention??

 

[PeppermintPatty]

But if man invented gods and religion wouldn't God fall into that category?

Yes for those who believe that’s what God is.
I haven’t quite come to any decision yet. To me, God equated to Mother Nature but ‘now’ l consider that just the tip of the iceberg. Like most people, I just don’t know. If we are bound by time and space due to the fact that we have a physical body, maybe when our body dies, we are no longer bound by those laws making it a whole new dimension we are in. If our conscious energy can’t be created or destroyed, where does it go

I’m of the believe that our body dies but our consciousness that’s connected to everything transforms and lives on in another dimension. Many believe there are many levels of dimension and we are existing only in one.

It’s a fascinating topic that’s endless to ponder.

 

[Timewise 60+]

If you don't believe, you cannot know God! Most on this post demonstrate that...

 

[Pepper]

Yes, this is my feeling also. Why does anyone believe there would be limits on invention??

Necessity is the mother of invention. A vacuum got filled up I reckon

 

[PeppermintPatty]

The Bible is a marvelous book. It codifies a lot of things, and tells us something of the old world. It's message is somewhat comfortable because I was born in the West, in a nation of Christians. It's also full on contradictions. The Old Testament is nightmarish in parts. Much of the Bible simply repeats tales that had earlier been told. For example, there are examples of resurrection that date from before Bible (Tammuz, Osiris, etc.) The flood myth wasn't new to the Bible. We have stories of Krishna that was supposedly born of a virgin, was a carpenter, and was baptized in a river, and so on. All pre-date anything written in the Bible. Is it coincidence?

Then you get to the question of "what is consciousness"? That's a philosophical question, not a religious one for me. It's also above my pay grade.

You know, I’ve tried and tried to read the Bible. There are so many wonderful verses in it. I’ve always started with Genesis and always get put off by all the things that are blamed on God, everything from earthquakes to floods was apparently from Gods wrath.

Bible Verses about God's Wrath


Like George Carlins video, if God so loved the world, what’s with the wrath?

Instead of getting enlightened by the Bible, I end up being disappointed and scared.

Now I take tidbits from all religions that work for me and leave the rest. What I can’t process, I leave and it seems to be working for me.

My new motto is ‘take the best, and leave the rest.’

 

[Pepper]

Starting the Bible w/Genesis is a bad idea, IMO. Too many names & generational stuff. Just open a page randomly, maybe?

eta
The Psalms great place to start @PeppermintPatty, really fine poetry in there. Ecclesiastes, too. Easy stuff.

 

[Lara]

If you don't believe, you cannot know God! Most on this post demonstrate that...

Amen.
And to answer George Carlin, according to my faith...Yes God so loves the world...the wrath is about the world's sin, disobedience, lack of faith, lack of showing love, turning our backs on him, etc.....and not choosing His free gift of forgiveness for which we must believe in order to receive.

 

[Knight]

The OP asked

1.How do you feel about the title "God has a plan"?

I think it's an invention to promote anything good that one might enjoy. The other part of free will is to place blame on a choice that ended up badly.


2. And do you think His plan should be shared with us so we could cope better with life's slings and arrows?

Believing that an omnipotent being billions of years old spends time daily developing a plan for each individual works for those that have blind faith. I think though that if those with blind were questioned what their life plan by God is. The answers would be interesting to read.

 

[VaughanJB]

If you don't believe, you cannot know God! Most on this post demonstrate that...

Sounds profound, but what does it actually mean? There's either a God or not. You either believe or not. If you don't believe in a God, there's nothing to know. If you do, then sure, you "know God". But why can't someone study, read, and talk about it, learn about it, and then say "it's not for me"?

 

[PeppermintPatty]

If you don't believe, you cannot know God! Most on this post demonstrate that...

Who and what is GOD?

Amen.
And to answer George Carlin, Yes God so loves the world. The wrath is about the world's sin, disobedience, lack of faith, lack of showing love, turning our backs on him, etc.....and not choosing His free gift of forgiveness for which we must believe in order to receive.

The world’s sin?
You mean humanities mistakes.
So God punishes us for mistakes we make?