Government Debt to GDP

[JustDave]

Simply tying healthcare to your employment is a huge problem in my mind.

I've been thinking this for the last 50 years, but never mentioned it, because people took it for granted, and no alternative method of insurance was available. Things started to change when insurance costs outpaced what employers were capable of providing, but still no alternative method of insurance is available.

 

[VaughanJB]

I've been thinking this for the last 50 years, but never mentioned it, because people took it for granted, and no alternative method of insurance was available. Things started to change when insurance costs outpaced what employers were capable of providing, but still no alternative method of insurance is available.

I just watched a video made by a woman who applied for a job at a major pharma business. The role was in R&D, and she was experienced on the science side of things (rather than say, IT). She was offered the job, but then she asked about salary. $18 an hour. No benefits. No paid leave. No personal days. No sick days. You get paid, by the hour, for the hours you work. No healthcare. No dental.

This is the state of corporate hiring today. She didn't take the job because she knew she wouldn't be able to pay for private healthcare out of that salary......

 

[bobcat]

I just watched a video made by a woman who applied for a job at a major pharma business. The role was in R&D, and she was experienced on the science side of things (rather than say, IT). She was offered the job, but then she asked about salary. $18 an hour. No benefits. No paid leave. No personal days. No sick days. You get paid, by the hour, for the hours you work. No healthcare. No dental.

This is the state of corporate hiring today. She didn't take the job because she knew she wouldn't be able to pay for private healthcare out of that salary......

I don't know anything about the video, the woman, or the company, but I'll chime in on the matter being discussed. I have a son-in-law who has worked for pharma in R&D for almost 30 years, and 20 of that with his current company. They have paid him very well and provided him with terrific benefits, so I am inclined to think that the video isn't reflecting the reality across the industry.

 

[VaughanJB]

I don't know anything about the video, the woman, or the company, but I'll chime in on the matter being discussed. I have a son-in-law who has worked for pharma in R&D for almost 30 years, and 20 of that with his current company. They have paid him very well and provided him with terrific benefits, so I am inclined to think that the video isn't reflecting the reality across the industry.

I'd not suggest it's like this in every instance. Especially when it comes to a tenure of 30 years. She would have been a new hire, and subject to current standards. But frankly, that it could have been suggested to one person is too much for me.

This however touches on another topic - the so called "gig economy". I think it's one of the bigger scams introduced into the work place for many moons. It basically exists to shift the burden of any kind of benefits away from the employer, and places it solely in the hands of workers. That's difficult in a culture where, for example, healthcare is tied to employment.

But that's off-topic here........

 

[Aunt Bea]

I'd not suggest it's like this in every instance. Especially when it comes to a tenure of 30 years. She would have been a new hire, and subject to current standards. But frankly, that it could have been suggested to one person is too much for me.

This however touches on another topic - the so called "gig economy". I think it's one of the bigger scams introduced into the work place for many moons. It basically exists to shift the burden of any kind of benefits away from the employer, and places it solely in the hands of workers. That's difficult in a culture where, for example, healthcare is tied to employment.

But that's off-topic here........

We’re old, we wander.

IMO the problem with the gig economy is the ignorance of the giggers.

The giggers are basically independent contractors that need to learn to factor in the costs of running a small business and the benefits that are often associated with a mainstream job.

Too many of these folks actually work for virtually nothing when you factor in things like the wear and tear in a vehicle.

 

[VaughanJB]

We’re old, we wander.

IMO the problem with the gig economy is the ignorance of the giggers.

The giggers are basically independent contractors that need to learn to factor in the costs of running a small business and the benefits that are often associated with a mainstream job.

Too many of these folks actually work for virtually nothing when you factor in things like the wear and tear in a vehicle.

Agree - and disagree.

Yes of course, there is always the argument of "well, no-one has to participate in the gig economy". But the reality is, the economy is bad, layoffs are happening, and companies are making sometimes large profits off the back of these people. Be it delivering packages, food, or driving someone around in a taxi. There's been a shift in how business models are built.

Desperate people do desperate things, and those that take advantage of them need to be checked. Imo. In the video I saw (which I didn't keep a link to) it was a job at big pharma in R&D. If someone is actively taking part in the R&D process, is there any excuse for using the gig economy model? Not for me....

 

[Aunt Bea]

Agree - and disagree.

Yes of course, there is always the argument of "well, no-one has to participate in the gig economy". But the reality is, the economy is bad, layoffs are happening, and companies are making sometimes large profits off the back of these people. Be it delivering packages, food, or driving someone around in a taxi. There's been a shift in how business models are built.

Desperate people do desperate things, and those that take advantage of them need to be checked. Imo. In the video I saw (which I didn't keep a link to) it was a job at big pharma in R&D. If someone is actively taking part in the R&D process, is there any excuse for using the gig economy model? Not for me....

I don’t buy into the doom and gloom.

The truth is that all any of us need to do is find one job and manage our own income.

We all experience tough times in our lives but taking on a victim mentality and looking to place blame for our problems eventually becomes a habit and only tends to makes things worse.

 

[VaughanJB]

I don’t buy into the doom and gloom.

The truth is that all any of us need to do is find one job and manage our own income.

We all experience tough times in our lives but taking on a victim mentality and looking to place blame for our problems eventually becomes a habit and only tends to makes things worse.

That's fine, but we can't just ignore how things have changed. Jobs, as you and I knew them, have changed a lot. I think the changed environment created by the internet is having both positive, and negative outcomes. I don't think noting the bad things is having a victim mentality, especially when the bad thing is simply pushing profit upwards, but strangling those doing the actual work.

 

[Irishdude]

I just watched a video made by a woman who applied for a job at a major pharma business. The role was in R&D, and she was experienced on the science side of things (rather than say, IT). She was offered the job, but then she asked about salary. $18 an hour. No benefits. No paid leave. No personal days. No sick days. You get paid, by the hour, for the hours you work. No healthcare. No dental.

This is the state of corporate hiring today. She didn't take the job because she knew she wouldn't be able to pay for private healthcare out of that salary......

This doesn't make sense. Anyone working more than 32 hours a week for a large company is entitled to routine benefits, such as healthcare and vacation pay. If it's a gig job, she should describe it as such.

The average hourly wage in the US is about $28. Someone working at an Amazon fulfillment center gets $22 plus benefits, education credits and many chances for advancement. A McDonald's worker locally makes about $15 with benefits for full-time work. I find it hard to believe than an experienced pharma researcher would only command $18 per hour with no benefits.

I worked for 12 years in the "gig economy." I was always busy. I made lots per hour and often worked more than 40 hours per week. I paid for my (very expensive) Obamacare until Medicare kicked in, paid off our mortgage, put $50,000 per year into a 401k plan and had plenty left over for vacations and other niceties. It was great!

I know you hate the US, but it really isn't so bad here. I would like to see a better healthcare system and I would like to see colleges punished for extortionate behavior over the past 50 years, but most people live pretty well. I've been out driving around and running errands on a sunny day after Thanksgiving and haven't seen anyone dying in the streets.

 

[VaughanJB]

I know you hate the US, but it really isn't so bad here. retty well. I've been out driving around and running errands on a sunny day after Thanksgiving and haven't seen anyone dying in the streets.

Having lived and worked in the US for nearly two decades, and having an American wife, let alone my posts - why would you say I hate the US? Far from it. The gig economy isn't a US-centric thing, it's here in the UK too. Actually, it's global . What is special about the US, as opposed to the UK, is that healthcare is based on employment there.

For what it's worth, "There is no current U.S. law or federal regulation that defines a 32-hour limit for the standard workweek. The existing standard is a 40-hour workweek".

Also: "The gig economy circumvents U.S. labor laws primarily byclassifying workers as independent contractors instead of employees. This classification allows companies to avoid responsibilities like paying payroll taxes, offering benefits such as health insurance or paid leave."

I have, very directly, expressed my love of American culture.

 

[Irishdude]

Having lived and worked in the US for nearly two decades, and having an American wife, let alone my posts - why would you say I hate the US? Far from it. The gig economy isn't a US-centric thing, it's here in the UK too. Actually, it's global . What is special about the US, as opposed to the UK, is that healthcare is based on employment there.

Your posts (to me at least) display a pattern of hostility toward the US.

We both agree the US healthcare system is broken. Ten percent of people in the US lack healthcare insurance. ACA/Obamacare was designed to fill that gap, but the cure turned out to be worse than the disease.

I'm just saying that the US is filled with opportunity for anyone who displays the slightest bit of initiative or a modicum of drive. People come here from all over the world and flourish.

 

[VaughanJB]

Your posts (to me at least) display a pattern of hostility toward the US.

We both agree the US healthcare system is broken. Ten percent of people in the US lack healthcare insurance. ACA/Obamacare was designed to fill that gap, but the cure turned out to be worse than the disease.

I'm just saying that the US is filled with opportunity for anyone who displays the slightest bit of initiative or a modicum of drive. People come here from all over the world and flourish.

I don't compare the US to the very worst people might be migrating from. As the richest nation on the planet, I hope for more.

I have no idea what posts you are referring too. No culture/country is beyond reproach. None.

If you wish to illustrate how iI "hate" America, I've be glad to read them, be it in PM's or publicly here.

 

[Irishdude]

I don't compare the US to the very worst people might be migrating from. As the richest nation on the planet, I hope for more.

I have no idea what posts you are referring too. No culture/country is beyond reproach. None.

If you wish to illustrate how iI "hate" America, I've be glad to read them, be it in PM's or publicly here.

We're not the richest nation on the planet as measured by per capita GDP, although per capita GDP in the US has greatly outpaced that in the UK and EU over the past 25 years.

Forgive me if I equate constant carping criticism with hatred or hostility. Maybe you don't hate the US, but you certainly give me that impression.

This is the Internal Revenue Service definition of "full time employee." If you are a full time employee at an Applicable Large Employer (ALE) you are entitled to benefits under the ACA.

Definition of full-time employee​

For purposes of the employer shared responsibility provisions, a full-time employee is, for a calendar month, an employee employed on average at least 30 hours of service per week, or 130 hours of service per month.

 

[VaughanJB]

Forgive me if I equate constant carping criticism with hatred or hostility.

I refute the idea that I have "constant carping criticism with hatred or hostility" to the US.

I have expressly stated my love for the US previously, both directly and explicitly, (perhaps posts you missed). I also try to accommodate the members of this site - which are mostly US based - by using US spellings, and definitions. These aren't natural to me, since I'm in, and from, the UK.

For purposes of the employer shared responsibility provisions, a full-time employee is, for a calendar month, an employee employed on average at least 30 hours of service per week, or 130 hours of service per month.

I think you're missing the nuance. These aren't considered/treated as "full time employees", they're considered to be contractors. By doing so, they are denied expected rights and expectations.

 

[Irishdude]

I refute the idea that I have "constant carping criticism with hatred or hostility" to the US.

I have expressly stated my love for the US previously, both directly and explicitly, (perhaps posts you missed). I also try to accommodate the members of this site - which are mostly US based - by using US spellings, and definitions. These aren't natural to me, since I'm in, and from, the UK.



I think you're missing the nuance. These aren't considered "full time employees", they're considered to be contractors.

Argh. I'm not missing any nuance. I was a contractor myself and certainly know the difference between FTEs and contractors or gig workers.

My daughter works part-time at a store. They keep her below 30 hours a week because above that level they have to provide benefits. That's what I'm talking about. Gig workers are a whole different issue.

And I can certainly state my love for the UK, but if all my posts are about how terrible everything is there, then it's not going to seem like I love the UK very much, is it?

 

[bobcat]

I grew up in a small mountain town where logging was the primary industry and the cornerstone of the economy there. As far back as I can remember, they had both company loggers and gypo loggers. The term originated back in the early 1900's as a reference to gypsy loggers. They owned their own trucks and just contracted with logging companies. Now they are just referred to as contract loggers.

The companies liked it because they didn't have to pay benefits, and the gypos liked it because they could go where the best paying work was, and instead of the logging company getting their trucks paid for by working jobs, the gypos were able to factor that in with so much per mile, so they would end up getting their rigs paid for.

They are still doing it today. My brother-in-law just retired from it with a truck paid for that's worth around $175,000, so it's not such a bad way to go, however, I would have to mention that he works on his own truck, as most of them do. Anyway, the gig workers have been around for over a hundred years, and in time, if they stay in business, they learn how to factor in overhead and enough to provide an adequate wage and healthcare.

There are so many protections for direct hire workers nowadays, and it can be very difficult to just fire someone like you could do in years gone by. With contract workers, it's not a problem, and the contract workers have more motivation to produce. Anyway, I'm not saying one is better than the other, but it's been going on a long time, and whatever works for both usually wins out.

Itinerant workers or migrant workers have played a part in the economy for many years, and it may be suitable for those who prefer freedom and being mobile, but for those who prefer stability, obviously direct hire provides better security.

 

[VaughanJB]

And I can certainly state my love for the UK, but if all my posts are about how terrible everything is there, then it's not going to seem like I love the UK very much, is it?

So you're claiming that "all my posts are about how terrible everything is [in the US]"?

I don't know how to respond to that. You must not read all of my posts.

As in reference to any business or country, there are both good and bad things. I simply reply on topics posted. As I've said, the gig economy isn't a US problem specifically, it's a global issue.

Still, I'm not about to try to convince you that I love the US. For me, if it's not obvious to you, then there's nothing I can say that will change your mind. I find it strange and rather myopic, but hey ho.