Holden

Welcome to the 'real world'.
HOLDEN workers will lose break time, be banned from taking any more than two sick days a year without a medical certificate and get sacked for "inefficiency" under harsh new conditions the company wants them to agree to.
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When you consider the amount of 'sick leave' that so many employees take these days, I don't blame management asking for a certificate. If your workers are inefficient yes sack them, no company can sustain inefficient workers.
 

Holden will beable to ask workers to start an unscheduled shift after a minimum break of just 10 hours - or only eight hours if the worker agrees.
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Dunno about you R but those 'unscheduled' shifts were what I made money from. Some of our shifts were rostered with only an 8 hour break. We loved it, it got 2 days work over in one and we had an extra one off. We were much better off regarding uncertificated sick leave. We had a whole 3 days a year.

They're only being asked to work those shifts, not forced to. If they're extra shifts then they're at overtime rates. Don't they want to pay off the mortgage? That's how I did it, by working 12 hour shifts and doubling back after 8 off to work another one. It's what 'working' means. They've got it a whole lot sweeter than when they have no job at all.

Reading all those gasp-horror work conditions merely convinces me more than ever that we have spoiled our workers to the point where they think businesses should be running their company as a charity for the unproductive.

GMH have no intention whatever of continuing production long term in this country. Why would they? They can turn cars out at half the price in Asia. Workers there would see those conditions as positively Utopian.

Why do they keep producing Commodores when the most popular sellers are half their their size, cost, maintenance, and fuel consumption? I could be wrong but I think they export more Commodores than they sell locally so why not build them where they're selling and save transport costs?
It's a business, not a charity. BUT, if they refuse to produce more marketable cars then that's their problem, not ours. Why support bad business acumen?

Detroit is a window into the future for our car manufacturing, get used to it.
We need to stop looking at what employees can gouge from employers and batten down to the realization that we've done better than most of the World in work practices,high award wages,holiday benefits, safety rules, and 'unfair' dismal laws. That's resulted in there now being literally billions out there in other countries who will work cheaper, and quieter, to produce the same product.

It's not about what's 'fair' or ethical or union BS any more.... it's crunch time. The reality is that we've priced ourselves out of the market and anyone with the brain of a flea and a buck to spend running a business is going to make his widgets where he gets a better profit return on his risk. And it ain't here!

Give GMH not a solitary buck of subsidy money. Let them pack up their gear and go, because they will eventually anyway, and if the Government want to throw money away better to throw it to the sacked workers who'll at least spend it here while they wait for the dole to come through.

I can't see any reason to keep bribing GMH to stay here except that the Govt wants to pretend that we don't have higher unemployment figures than they want to admit to. They've already wasted billions on GMH..... and Ford! just to 'save' a few jobs. It would have been a lot smarter to spread that money around the sacked workers to keep them from qualifying for welfare wouldn't it? Then they wouldn't show up in the unemployment figures.

How many do you think would have chosen to work, over getting a free handout? As it is, the Govt. has given the money to foreign companies who have pocketed it and scampered to Asia anyway, and now they still have to pay welfare to the sacked locals on top of it.
Something wrong with this picture to me.

I don't see this as a goody/baddy question. They're all equally deluded about their worth to the Country.

Btw R, do you drive a Holden? Buy one just to keep those workers in a job?

I drive one, a Vectra. Except the only thing on it manufactured here is the badge, it was made in Germany and imported and sold by GMH. I rest my case.









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Fern said:
Welcome to the 'real world'.

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When you consider the amount of 'sick leave' that so many employees take these days, I don't blame management asking for a certificate. If your workers are inefficient yes sack them, no company can sustain inefficient workers.
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As a former employer, I fully understand THAT condition. Sick leave, in my experience, was the most abused work condition. One guy, whom I remember vividly, calculated his sick leave entitlement and would call in 'sick' on a Monday or Friday as soon as he had accrued a day. Then, he actually got sick, was out of sick leave and amazed that his pay packet was short.
 
What I drive has got nothing all to do with my original post....
I have had two Holdens in the past, if they made decent cars, I'd probably still have one...it's taken them over 60 years to get "almost" up to date with what other manufacturers have been doing for ten years...that's one of their greatest problems and always has been...even in the 70s you had to pay extra to get a radio and a heater...
You haven't helped much either buying a Vectra...?
You have also forgotten the many thousands of workers who supply parts to the motor industry....if they go, Toyota will go as well because they get their components from the same source. More Aussie workers out of a job...stuff the Asians, we want jobs here for the economy.
Sadly, manufacturing OS has never given us cheaper cars.
As for spreading the money around to the workers, that sounds like a really practical solution...:rolleyes-new:

The Opel Vectra is a large family car that was engineered and produced by Opel. In the United Kingdom, the car was sold under the Vauxhall marque as the Vauxhall Cavalier and later as the Vauxhall Vectra, from 1995 onwards. It has also been sold by Holden in Australasia as Holden Vectra, and by Chevrolet in Latin America as the Chevrolet Vectra.
 
dbeyat45 said:
As a former employer, I fully understand THAT condition. Sick leave, in my experience, was the most abused work condition. One guy, whom I remember vividly, calculated his sick leave entitlement and would call in 'sick' on a Monday or Friday as soon as he had accrued a day. Then, he actually got sick, was out of sick leave and amazed that his pay packet was short.
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Don't know where you worked but here in Australia you only get 5 days a year where you don't need a certificate...only 2 of those can be taken in succession without a certificate...the maximum number of days sick leave per year is 10...that's in private and government, I worked in both...
 
Archer said:
Don't know where you worked but here in Australia you only get 5 days a year where you don't need a certificate...only 2 of those can be taken in succession without a certificate...the maximum number of days sick leave per year is 10...that's in private and government, I worked in both...
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That's pretty much how I remember things .... our man took his Fridays and Mondays (no certificate required) and ran out of sick leave.
 
The Opel Vectra is a large family car that was engineered and produced by Opel. In the United Kingdom, the car was sold under the Vauxhall marque as the Vauxhall Cavalier and later as the Vauxhall Vectra, from 1995 onwards. It has also been sold by Holden in Australasia as Holden Vectra, and by Chevrolet in Latin America as the Chevrolet Vectra.
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Large??! Hardly. I only bought it because it was the only thing with enough head room that would fit in a tight garage. I didn't buy it to support anything but my own budget requirements. I really didn't give a toss if it was made by underpaid penguins on Heard Isld.

I was just being a smarta*se by pointing out that your outrage for the workers doesn't extend to your buying habits. It doesn't for any of us. Some just don't get outraged at one side of the argument without looking at it from all angles that's all. Cars are your thing, not mine. I'm over caring about their pedigrees or where they come from. All manufacturing in OZ is spiralling down, let's look at why instead of laying immediate and absolute blame on the employers. We're all playing a part in it by skimming the OS bargains and expecting to be paid more than we're worth. Some of us are just more willing to admit it.
 
Reading all those gasp-horror work conditions merely convinces me more than ever that we have spoiled our workers to the point where they think businesses should be running their company as a charity for the unproductive.
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Once again Diwundrin you have hit the nail on the head.

If they cant make it with all the money handed them before now, they never will and it will be interesting what happens if the Unions dont accept
 
dbeyat45 said:
As a former employer, I fully understand THAT condition. Sick leave, in my experience, was the most abused work condition. One guy, whom I remember vividly, calculated his sick leave entitlement and would call in 'sick' on a Monday or Friday as soon as he had accrued a day. Then, he actually got sick, was out of sick leave and amazed that his pay packet was short.
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That's a very common attitude amongst workers to-day. Our son-in-law who worked for a bank did the same thing. Even went for a few days holiday on his 'sick leave'. It sure is the most abused work condition.
I could be wrong but I think they export more Commodores than they sell locally so why not build them where they're selling and save transport costs?
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Commodores are popular here. We've never had anything else. On a trip our Calais is not expensive to run and sure can't fault the comfort.

 
if they go, Toyota will go as well because they get their components from the same source
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Based on what? I think it will make component suppliers simply downsize

Lets face it manufacturing in this country is stuffed thanks in part to union and employee greed, making us uncompetitive.

Initially I felt sorry for the employees at Holdens, who it seems are on a fairly good wicket, until I remember the Unions crucifying companies on building sites with strike threats to gain ridiculous
perks
 
Just commenting on the subsidy to GMH: Why not, either give them a propup to keep the jobs here, or put a higher Tariff on any car that is imported.
My both sons worked for BORGE WARNER, who then Became DANA, supplying gear boxes & rear ends to both Ford & GMH.
where are they now MALAYSIA.:mad:
CAN'T COMMENT ON THE CONDITIONS THE WORKERS ARE NEGOTIATING AS I HAVEN'T READ UP ON WHAT'S GOING ON.
 
Gee thats a tough decision.. but I guess if the Holden factory want to keep working.. a deal like this is better than no job and be out of work..
we have a Holden Commodore its been a good car and we bought it new in 1995 and still its a good car ... not had that much go wrong with it.. and still not done 100,000km on it yet..
so we have done our bit for the Holden enterprise... that deal they want the workers to agree determines whether they make cars till 2022 or 2016 then have to shut shop all would be out of jobs then.. if it helps the enterprise I`d be for it..

HOLDEN workers will lose break time, be banned from taking any more than two sick days a year without a medical certificate and get sacked for "inefficiency" under harsh new conditions the company wants them to agree to.

Despite receiving close to $2 billion in taxpayer funding over the past 12 years - and getting access to a fresh pool of $200 million to combat the damage caused by changes to Fringe Benefits Tax - Holden has asked its workers to help save another $15 million a year in production and labour costs.
In addition to the loss of a 3 per cent pay rise for each of the next three years - which amounts to a pay cut because it means Holden workers won't keep up with the average 2.5 per cent rate of annual inflation - production line staff will also be subject to regular drug tests, including blood samples if initial saliva and breath tests prove positive.
News Corp Australia has received a leaked copy of the deal that Holden wants workers to sign. The votes are due to be counted next Tuesday afternoon and will help determine whether Holden builds cars until 2022 - or shuts shop in late 2016.
Holden puts brakes on investment
The detailed 30-page amendment to the original 178-page workplace agreement makes for tough reading even for the most hardened of Holden workers.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/the...gn/story-e6frfm1i-1226692359323#ixzz2bNB3tKZ9
 
Just remembered, our shifts were 8 hours straight with no set time for breaks on the roster at all.
There was an allowed 30 minute meal break to be taken when workload permitted.

We're not talking 1920 here, it was in 1994. We made our own arrangements as to who ate when and staggered meal breaks among the staff, we rarely all ate together. Oh, and there wasn't even a meal room in our section. Only one down the end of the corridor used by the train controllers and you entered that at your peril.

We kept a microwave, an electric jug to boil water, fetched from the 'ladies' for the endless coffee drinking, and a fridge in the stationery store room. Illegally. When we did eat together it was at the empty desks in the day shift office next door. Hope they didn't mind.

Not that it was a sweat shop, it was just a job that had a wildly fluctuating workload throughout the shift. Sometimes we'd have an hour with nothing for anyone to do at all, and at other times we'd all be working flat chat and falling behind, and eating a snack one handed at the 'benches' because there wasn't time for a meal break at all. It kept life exciting, but didn't allow the normal awards to apply. These Holden workers have it sweet.
 

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