Homeless Pooping In Public A Problem In San Francisco

ndynt said:
That was after Kennedy was assassinated. No one would follow up on his plans for community based mental health treatment vs shutting people up in institutions. Most of the mental hospital were closed or just partially open and all these mentally ill people were cast out on the streets. For the funding for their care was gone. I was a case manager at that time and patients were put in jail, for their inappropriate behavior. When they just needed to be on medication. It was a horrible revolving door thing. Put them in a psych ward for 72 hours, long enough to stabilize them. Then back out on the streets, not keeping follow up appts. Then back in jail for "pooping in the street" or other inappropriate behaviors. Do not know if it has improved/changed any.
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Geez Nona, that's been longer ago than I thought:( I've heard (and seen lots of movies) about the horror of some of those mental institutes. I would have been all supportive of his plan. Thanks for telling us about that, and it must have been so hard for you to see it so close up:( I know you must have been a wonderful, case manager. I know how caring you are, Denise
 

nwlady said:
But for the grace of God go I.

I see so many here in Eureka, women my age, broken. I would like to know their story, but some either won't share it, or they are no longer mentally capable. I think about the people they loved, at one time, and those that loved them, maybe still do. I don't judge any because I don't know the "whys" behind their "life" such as it is now. It makes me all the more grateful that I still have some morals, and one, remaining marble that I am hoping will eventually, divide and multiply.
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Hey Denise! How are ya! I noticed you returned to the fold a couple days ago but I've had a bunch of things going on (grandkids over, etc) and I kept forgetting to check in on you.

I once heard that anyone is like, one shower away from being unemployable (lousy interview presentation if you smell funny and look greasy you know ;)) and I've often thought of that. So your sentiment is well taken.

Maybe cities need to just accept the fact that there are going to be homeless people and provide some facilities that they can use. Stores and restaurants don't want them in, office towers would have security show them the door, so where else are they going to go? I think I once read about these great public toilets in Japan and their like a sort of 'tube' that is timed to be open until someone walks in, the door slid closed for a couple minutes, then it opened and the whole thing automatically flushed (or was automatically 'hosed') and because of that, it discouraged anyone from taking up residence but provided a clean public toilet. It was pretty neat.
 
nwlady said:
Geez Nona, that's been longer ago than I thought:( I've heard (and seen lots of movies) about the horror of some of those mental institutes. I would have been all supportive of his plan. Thanks for telling us about that, and it must have been so hard for you to see it so close up:( I know you must have been a wonderful, case manager. I know how caring you are, Denise
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Sadly, Kennedy's sister Rosemary was born mentally retarded. When in her early twenties her father, without his wife knowing, had a botched frontal lobotomy performed on Rosemary. A prodedure used only for mentally ill patients that were violent. Rosemary then lost any of the skills her mother was able to teach her. She was then placed in a institution, where she remained all her life. Thus Kennedy had first hand knowledge of the mental health system and compassion for those institionalized. When he died Congress cut funding for Kennedy`s long term plans for changes in the Mental Health system. I was fortunate enough, at that time, to be able to work for a grass-roots program to keep the mentally ill in the least restrictive environment possible.
 

Virtually every major city has its "skid row"...populated by drunks, drug addicts, and the mentally disabled. The drunks and addicts have chosen to spend every dollar they get on feeding their habits....while the mentally disabled are falling through the cracks in our society...with little or no help for their problems.

California is probably a magnet for these homeless, as the climate is fairly mild, year round. In many parts of the country, these people would freeze to death in the Winter.
 
Shalimar said:
Once again compassion appears to take second place to blame. Part of the side effects of being malnourished are urinary/bowel problems. Perhaps we should focus on the cause rather than denigrate the unfortunate. Speaking as a formerly homeless person, my sojourn on the street did not fill me with Either the capacity to be well groomed in a wet Vancouver winter, or a huge desire to be considerate towards people who happily ignored a hungry, shivering, frightened seventeen year old child who was not there by choice. You can imagine the offers I received as an incentive to be fed. one person offered me dinner and a bath in exchange for something I will not mention.
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I get that there are related issues for some of this behavior but after having worked in some of the most poor, rundown, drug infested, dilapidated, abandoned neighborhoods & cities at all times of day for decades only once did I see a homeless person or junky go to the bathroom/urinate in front of others and even that was in an alley with back turned away from public. As ignorant as he was going about 10 ft from where I was working he apologized saying he had to go. That being said I did run across piles of human waste among other things but again that was in an out of the way places. That was decades ago at this point when there was more of a stigma(justified or not) on being homeless but most also knew that staying out of sight out of mind was the best way to survive and others respected that-you don't bother me and I won't bother or call the police on you.

I think part of the problem now is that a lot of those nooks, crannies, corners, alleys have been blocked off so many homeless can't find a place to hide or do things more discretely. They're blocked off because the owners probably got tired of cleaning up after them. I've had post offices who had to lock up their PO Box area before dark even though they were supposed to be open until 11:00. When I complained they said it was too much to have to clean up the area every morning which went beyond emptying the trash cans and a quick sweep/mop. There is a lack of public bathrooms and too many business get away with denying use of theirs. Perhaps tax breaks for business who install additional public restrooms or pay for port a potties might help but not solve some of these problems.

Also many places have started using a urine repellent type paint to discourage public urination anyway. The idea was used in Germany who has also had a problem of public urination as well.

http://www.usnews.com/news/us/artic...-francisco-fights-public-urination-with-paint
 
I think those toilets sound good. I know that some homeless no longer care about the good things folks "do" provide for them. In the missions would you believe people gripe about the food, bedding, beds. I got caught up in it a time or two until I remembered who got me into the mess, myself. No one did it to me. I know some have had bad things happen to them that's caused their homeless-ness but playing the "blame" game has never done a thing for me. I'm no pollyanna, but I do try to remember to make a gratitude list.
 
ndynt said:
Sadly, Kennedy's sister Rosemary was born mentally retarded. When in her early twenties her father, without his wife knowing, had a botched frontal lobotomy performed on Rosemary. A prodedure used only for mentally ill patients that were violent. Rosemary then lost any of the skills her mother was able to teach her. She was then placed in a institution, where she remained all her life. Thus Kennedy had first hand knowledge of the mental health system and compassion for those institionalized. When he died Congress cut funding for Kennedy`s long term plans for changes in the Mental Health system. I was fortunate enough, at that time, to be able to work for a grass-roots program to keep the mentally ill in the least restrictive environment possible.
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Even today I know some things are happening that are just wrong, even evil/abusive. I heard from a gal that was on clonazapam, prescribed, but she had run out and it gave her awful, withdrawal symptoms, so bad she ended up in confinement in a hospital. They would not give her anything she said (I know not to believe all I hear), and she was forced to go through it cold-turkey.

Thank goodness for the good, mental, healthcare there is out there. Well, I should say I hope it's out there as I don't know, other than a Doctor putting me on some crap a few months ago for my depression. I couldn't get the script filled in CA and went through "definite" withdrawals, just after about 8 months of the med. Lexapro if anyone wants to know.
 
Don M. said:
Virtually every major city has its "skid row"...populated by drunks, drug addicts, and the mentally disabled. The drunks and addicts have chosen to spend every dollar they get on feeding their habits....while the mentally disabled are falling through the cracks in our society...with little or no help for their problems.

California is probably a magnet for these homeless, as the climate is fairly mild, year round. In many parts of the country, these people would freeze to death in the Winter.
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I understand the skid-row districts are everywhere, and yes, better weather would attract the homeless. I can't judge the alcohol/drug users, but it is horrible, and I've seen many working hard to recover. I see folks gathering butts of cigarettes off the street. There are plenty of addictions, gambling is another. I met a gal that had her SS spent the day it came. She would head for a casino in Coos Bay and blow every dime.

By the way, this woman was lovely, non-drinker, married and wealthy ranch-owner near Eugene OR. She and her highschool sweetheart raised 2 or 3 children, then since they met, they did bicycle-touring bigtime. She was riding alone on a bike-lane, went up on the curb she had rode tons of times, and hit one, tiny break in the concrete. She was paralyzed for 6 months, quad. Then, 6 years after, she walks with a cane, and is homeless due to the gambling as far as I could tell. She would take her clothing (she had left) that came from places so expensive, I never even heard of them, trade or sell at a shop in Coos Bay. That she used for pepsi & cigs.
 
nwlady said:
I think those toilets sound good. I know that some homeless no longer care about the good things folks "do" provide for them. In the missions would you believe people gripe about the food, bedding, beds. I got caught up in it a time or two until I remembered who got me into the mess, myself. No one did it to me. I know some have had bad things happen to them that's caused their homeless-ness but playing the "blame" game has never done a thing for me. I'm no pollyanna, but I do try to remember to make a gratitude list.
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That's a problem with society in general. People take things for granted or have better knowledge of what's out there and feel entitled to it. I know people who need or could use assistance and refuse it or don't want to be considered 'needy'. Yet they'll beg family and close friends for substantial loans & favors to hide or impress, not survive.

What's the old saying you can't help those who won't help themselves.

And I will HELP others, I will not provide for, enable or perpetuate their bad or unnecessary choices.
 
Good post, and thank you for it. I think your solution of the tax-break is very realistic, and a good idea. The only thing sad to me is that we have to be "bribed" with some form of compensation to help folks. But again, it is what it is.
 
nwlady said:
Good post, and thank you for it. I think your solution of the tax-break is very realistic, and a good idea. The only thing sad to me is that we have to be "bribed" with some form of compensation to help folks. But again, it is what it is.
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I think fining or penalizing the business that won't let the public use their mandatory restrooms would be a start. I've purchased donuts & coffee from a shop a block away from the city hall in good clothes and they said their restrooms were out of order. But a sign saying such was there for months. How is that.
 
This thread has reminded me of a way of life that I knew of when a kid at home. It had to be back in the 1930's. We would on occasion have a hobo stop around and ask for work. What my mother would do is ask if he needed some food. If he said yes she would fix them a plate and they would sit on the back steps and eat it. When done they would thank her and be on their way.

We could not give them jobs or money as we ourselves were also broke. So a bit of food and that is the best we could do.

We never heard of all this trashy way of living that we see today. Maybe it existed in some places but not where we were living. Many of the unemployed found jobs the government created to keep them busy. Hoover Dam being one. Then WWII broke out and lots of jobs were created or they got involved with the military.

Looking back, I think the governments way back then were better. They paid people to work on good projects and very little to those that just sat on their butts between hand outs. Little more than an allowance for some food items.
 
WhatInThe said:
I think fining or penalizing the business that won't let the public use their mandatory restrooms would be a start. I've purchased donuts & coffee from a shop a block away from the city hall in good clothes and they said their restrooms were out of order. But a sign saying such was there for months. How is that.
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what is a "mandatory restroom" ?
 
WhatInThe said:
I think fining or penalizing the business that won't let the public use their mandatory restrooms would be a start. I've purchased donuts & coffee from a shop a block away from the city hall in good clothes and they said their restrooms were out of order. But a sign saying such was there for months. How is that.
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I'm not sure but I thought it was "law" to provide restrooms. What about the elderly, or folks with babies. Seems like it would be to the businesses benefit to provide, and increase their customers.

People are uncomfortable, even afraid of disease etc. Education doesn't seem to do the trick either. If it's my home, I admit someone super dirty might frighten me to allow them to use the can, but public means public can use. Rubber gloves and bleach to clean, and a gas mask if you're that delicate.
 
BobF said:
This thread has reminded me of a way of life that I knew of when a kid at home. It had to be back in the 1930's. We would on occasion have a hobo stop around and ask for work. What my mother would do is ask if he needed some food. If he said yes she would fix them a plate and they would sit on the back steps and eat it. When done they would thank her and be on their way.

We could not give them jobs or money as we ourselves were also broke. So a bit of food and that is the best we could do.

We never heard of all this trashy way of living that we see today. Maybe it existed in some places but not where we were living. Many of the unemployed found jobs the government created to keep them busy. Hoover Dam being one. Then WWII broke out and lots of jobs were created or they got involved with the military.

Looking back, I think the governments way back then were better. They paid people to work on good projects and very little to those that just sat on their butts between hand outs. Little more than an allowance for some food items.
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Yes, exactly, progress, but not in some areas for sure:(
 
RadishRose said:
what is a "mandatory restroom" ?
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Local ordinances vary but the most common if the establishment serves food they must have a restroom. So if in a building and you are selling something as simple as hot hotdogs and fountain sodas theoretically you are supposed to have a restroom. Then you get into things occupancy, visitors, number of employees etc along with type of building/business. I've lived in tourist areas where if the business has a restroom they cannot deny use to the public.
 
WhatInThe said:
Local ordinances vary but the most common if the establishment serves food they must have a restroom. So if in a building and you are selling something as simple as hot hotdogs and fountain sodas theoretically you are supposed to have a restroom. Then you get into things occupancy, visitors, number of employees etc along with type of building/business. I've lived in tourist areas where if the business has a restroom they cannot deny use to the public.
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oh, ok thanks
 
BobF said:
This thread has reminded me of a way of life that I knew of when a kid at home. It had to be back in the 1930's. We would on occasion have a hobo stop around and ask for work. What my mother would do is ask if he needed some food. If he said yes she would fix them a plate and they would sit on the back steps and eat it. When done they would thank her and be on their way.

We could not give them jobs or money as we ourselves were also broke. So a bit of food and that is the best we could do.

We never heard of all this trashy way of living that we see today. Maybe it existed in some places but not where we were living. Many of the unemployed found jobs the government created to keep them busy. Hoover Dam being one. Then WWII broke out and lots of jobs were created or they got involved with the military.

Looking back, I think the governments way back then were better. They paid people to work on good projects and very little to those that just sat on their butts between hand outs. Little more than an allowance for some food items.
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I think what you see now aren't the unemployed and homeless past who would be much more grateful. I think the drug culture has totally changed homelessness. For me what I saw during the first wave of crack in the inner cities in 1980s killed my generosity. One week I gave out almost 15$ in loose change alone on the same corner from people asking 'do you have any spare change'. One individual got all indignant when I gave him over a dollar in change that was in my pocket. He screamed "QUARTERs???" amongst all the other pennies, nickels and dimes that were in the pile. Then you watch the beggars go into the local mom & pop shop but not come out with anything so it's probably drugs or cigarettes. It got to the point when people asked for money for something to eat I offered to buy food for them and got immediate NOs.
 
fureverywhere said:
Access to mental health and rehab services, employment services, childcare, safe shelters with graduation to safe public housing. But where does the money come from is the biggest problem. If they could build a model with all of those services in place, they could get a lot of people off the streets. Paying for it I don't know.
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Some very unhappy, negative solutions to a growing problem!
Let's hope and pray it does not eventually lead to "Hitler's Final Solution"!!!
 

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