How are we feeling about climate change, (can't be bothered?)?

Alligatorob said:
Probably easier to find an aspen stand and build your house in it!
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Yup

I'm looking (lotsa aspen near)

Had five acres at the end of the line, back in the 70s, chock full of bull alder
Loved the fall, when the leaves turned
And when the prairie wolves cried their songs to the moon, shedding it's rays thru those trees.... whoa
Gave me a chill I'll never forget
 

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rgp said:
OK, so who here is ready & willing to give-up electricity as we know it ? It has been proven that wind & solar will not provide at the excepted amount.

Yes, but there is so much more!!!! Solar panels could be put on every roof in the world. There are wave generators, currently in operation in the oceans. A relative newcomer are generators that sit on a river bottom and will generate year 'round under the ice because the current never stops in the river. Thousands of these could be deployed. There are generators tapping into the gas put out by landfills. There are biomass generators. There are steam generators that use focused sunlight. There is an endless list of proven technologies. We simply don't have the political will to insist (and pay for) all the technologies that are already out there waiting to be expanded. Different technologies benefit certain areas.
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I would like to do more to help reduce my carbon footprint, but I don't like change, on the other hand I am happy to follow any good ideas others have. Like the awesome windows that some law regulation promoted I guess 10 years ago and there were even rebates. We had a big wind storm and hail 10 years ago and had to replace some doors and windows, and the newer energy efficient ones are awesome compared to the crummy ones the house was built with. Also, if the government would have people who would come out and help me to find ways to make the house more energy efficient I would love that.
I've heard that the majority of houses will be able to supply the majority of their own electricity within 20 years (and I guess I heard it a few years ago, so maybe in 18 years).
I would not mind being forced to put in solar roofing or a windmill if it would pay for itself in several years (assuming I could get a loan to put it in and then afford to pay it off by savings in electric bill). But I would not just do it voluntarily, it would have to be strongly promoted somehow. It would probably create a lot of jobs and be good for the economy too (except for the oil companies of course).
A few years ago I had the florescent lights in my kitchen upgraded to use led (I think it is) which is supposed to pay for the upgrade by electricity savings after a few years. I'm not sure how to know if they really do, but it made me feel virtuous and economical.
I totally support when the government had been going to make auto companies have more fuel efficient vehicles, I would love to save money on gas, it is too bad the politicians (presumably in the pockets of big oil) stopped that. But a big change like a switch to electric or natural gas vehicles I would only do when/if everyone else does.
I've heard on a podcast that refrigerators and freezers use a lot of energy and that there are foods that we are used to keeping refrigerated or frozen that do just fine at shelf temperature with proper treatment. I guess like the little no-refrigeration-needed milk cartons my daughter liked as a kid. There again tho, it is too big of a change for me unless I saw everyone else doing it.
I would love to have hot water that heats up only when needed, but it would need to be promoted strongly and have nice options and people who knew how to install it. When I was in Wales on vacation (pre-Covid) I stayed at a place that had something that made the hot water for the shower right there in the shower somehow, a square thing on the wall I think it was. Seems so much more sensible than having a hot water heater keep water hot 24 hrs a day. If I was forced to get an intelligent water heater I could easily program to get a lot cooler during unused overnight hours, I'd be happy to have it. But it is too much new-ness for me to voluntarily try to shop for it.
I await the leadership of others.
 

fuzzybuddy said:
There was a time when Climate Change, due to excessive use of fossil fuels was a 'maybe'. That ship has sailed. There is enough scientific evidence that it is occurring. Some still do not "believe" the facts. Whether they do, or not is irrelevant. The climate is slowly changing. It's hard to observe that without scientific instruments. And even if Climate Change was not happening, we still are polluting the planet with the exhaust from billions of fossil fueled engines, furnaces, stoves, power plants, etc. And we aren't making dinosaurs anymore, we will run out of fossil fuel., we have to get a new, nonpolluting source of energy, or face the end of our civilization. It's prudent to save what fossil fuel we still have.
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There certainly is truth to this, on both counts.

What do you think about nuclear energy? It produces none of the gases burning hydrocarbons do, and is not likely to run out any time soon.
 
grahamg said:
One argument you're not making, (true as it is), is the one acknowledging most if not all on this forum won't be around when/if climate change spirals out of control, so why should we care(?). We'd still care wouldn't we, as would all the rest if they really engaged their faculties, but all of us will definitely admit, much as we might care about something coming down the road in X decades, it would grab our attention slightly more, were it coming next year!!!!!
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Well, grahammy, I am doing what I think to be most effective.
And that's my part
Recycle
Conserve
Vote
Other things that don't come to mind, because they're ingrained habits now

...and no, electric cars will never be in my personal or voting agenda

If SHTF next year? What would anybody do now?
 
fuzzybuddy said:
There was a time when Climate Change, due to excessive use of fossil fuels was a 'maybe'. That ship has sailed. There is enough scientific evidence that it is occurring. Some still do not "believe" the facts. Whether they do, or not is irrelevant. The climate is slowly changing. It's hard to observe that without scientific instruments. And even if Climate Change was not happening, we still are polluting the planet with the exhaust from billions of fossil fueled engines, furnaces, stoves, power plants, etc. And we aren't making dinosaurs anymore, we will run out of fossil fuel., we have to get a new, nonpolluting source of energy, or face the end of our civilization. It's prudent to save what fossil fuel we still have.
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Do you really believe that the oil we're drilling today is still coming from dead dinosaurs? And, "if" the earth is still turning dead dinosaurs into crude oil, doesn't it stand to reason that all dead creatures (including us) are also being turned into crude oil? So, in reality, all dead creatures are a renewable source.
 
rgp said:
OK, so who here is ready & willing to give-up electricity as we know it ? It has been proven that wind & solar will not provide at the excepted amount.

Who here is ready to go back to the outhouse? Who here is ready to give up their car ? and go back to not only riding a horse, but shoveling tons upon tons of horse manure out of the cities, not to mention watching & smelling as 100s of gallons, [maybe more] of horse urine runs down the gutters.

What is going to power that office,shop,store or? that you work in ?

What is going to power this L/top I am typing on ? Ready to give up Netflix? On air sports ? Cell phones?

The earth is an ever evolving rock on which we live , we use it as best we can to better our lives.

Who here is ready & willing to go backwards ?
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I did this back in the late '40s & early '50s so not hard to go back to. We had a Windmill that we got power from for a radio 32 volt lights NO TV. We had the old outhouse. I dug a few new holes as a kid. We cut dead wood from forests for cookstove & also heating pot belly in the center of the house. Had big gardens & had pigs, chickens, cows & horses for working with.

We still had major blizzards & heat in summertime back then. The only thing was we only got the news at 6 pm for 1/2 hr on the radio. You never got instant news from people wanting to make a name for themselves.
 
Lewkat said:
Obviously we've gone through several cycles of climate change since the earth was born. During these cycles, nature heaps all sorts of catastrophes upon us and some species become extinct as a result. Dinosaurs and the like are gone and others have followed. I believe it is simply natural evolution combine with the industrial era and now the technology era adding to these changes. Eventually we too shall evolve and the cycle will begin again and many millennia down the road, the population will be crying in their beer about climate change. So, what else is new?
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Unfortunately I don't share your optimism. Evolution of animal species takes place over thousands of years. Climate change is happening now and apparently at an accelerated rate. There may be an "intelligent" species on this planet in many millennia, but i don't think it will be the human race.
Granny B. said:
I had never heard of the Fermi paradox. Thanks. I'm always interested in learning some new perspectives. I just took a quick read about it, but is sure does paint a bleak outlook. Care to explain in further detail?
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For a comprehensive explanation, I would refer you to: The Fermi Paradox - Wait But Why
 
I think the concept that the elevated global temperatures are due to natural causes, may have been valid 60 years ago. But no one can point to any natural phenomena, volcanos etc , which can account for the higher temps. It's man made. For God's sake, even the Pope and other religious leaders have endorsed Climate Change. Some think it's a couple of degrees warmer-no big deal. But it's going to be changing fertile areas into deserts. There's going to be huge shifts in populated areas. It's not going to be a few 100,000 refugees, but entire nations. The people in this forum aren't going to be around for this, but our kids and grandkids will be. It's irresponsible to dump on our loved ones, a preventable outcome.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I think the concept that the elevated global temperatures are due to natural causes, may have been valid 60 years ago. But no one can point to any natural phenomena, volcanos etc , which can account for the higher temps. It's man made. For God's sake, even the Pope and other religious leaders have endorsed Climate Change. Some think it's a couple of degrees warmer-no big deal. But it's going to be changing fertile areas into deserts. There's going to be huge shifts in populated areas. It's not going to be a few 100,000 refugees, but entire nations. The people in this forum aren't going to be around for this, but our kids and grandkids will be. It's irresponsible to dump on our loved ones, a preventable outcome.
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I would point out that the last ice age ended 10,000 years ago and the earth began to warm up. Think about that. Did the small campfires of pre-historic man cause that warming trend ? Not bloody likely.

8,000 years ago, the ENTIRE Sahara Desert was a vast green land filled with elephant, hippos, crocodiles, and herbivores of every sort. Over time, that changed into what we see today ... a scorching, sandy wasteland. Did man cause that ? No ! Of course not.

It is as natural for the earth to change climate, as it is for the sun to rise every morning.
 
Gary O' said:
Well, grahammy, I am doing what I think to be most effective.
Break
If SHTF next year? What would anybody do now?
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I thought a bit more about your post above, and I heard the lyrics to this song today, and thought they maybe appropriate here. Sung by Engelbert Humperdinck, who you may remember as I think he was popular in the US as well as the UK, thirty or more years ago.

"IF"

If a picture paints a thousand words,
Then why can't I paint you?
The words will never show the you I've come to know.
If a face could launch a thousand ships,
Then where am I to go?
There's no one home but you,
You're all that's left me too.
And when my love for life is running dry,
You come and pour yourself on me.
If a man could be two places at one time,
I'd be with you.
Tomorrow and today, beside you all the way.
If the world should stop revolving spinning slowly down to die,
I'd spend the end with you.
And when the world was through,
Then one by one the stars would all go out,
Then you and I would simply fly away

 
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senior chef said:
I would point out that the last ice age ended 10,000 years ago and the earth began to warm up. Think about that. Did the small campfires of pre-historic man cause that warming trend ? Not bloody likely.
8,000 years ago, the ENTIRE Sahara Desert was a vast green land filled with elephant, hippos, crocodiles, and herbivores of every sort. Over time, that changed into what we see today ... a scorching, sandy wasteland. Did man cause that ? No ! Of course not.
It is as natural for the earth to change climate, as it is for the sun to rise every morning.
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Just suppose, "for the sakes of argument" you are wrong, and someone else just might be on the money, "What then" would you suggest, were you ruler of the whole world, not just your own?
"One child policy across the globe"?
"Folks changing habits enough to at least have a go at reducing carbon emissions"?

We're only supposing here because as you can see from the thread title and my account of my own situation, "climate change" (real or imaginary?), isn't filling up too much of my head space right now! :unsure::oops::sneaky:
 
I burn coal to heat my house so I must be unconcerned. My friend from NYC is ecologically aware. She asks me every time she calls how I am heating my house. I tell her every time I am heating with coal. There is a long shocked pause and then an oh. People really get on my nerves sometimes. I don't ask her how she rides her butt uptown because I know she doesn't take the subway.
 
Several things:

Feel there are multiple factors including negative human practices in addition to natural cyclical patterns.

My only hope for correction is a shift ...really soon!... to a natural cool cycle, because I don't think human behavior is going to sufficiently make an impact on the current warming trend. We peons that try can't make a dent to counteract the atrocious footprints of the likes of celebrity hypocrites Prince Harry and Leonardo DeCaprio and the fans they spawn who try to emulate their lifestyles. Am so glad that Greta Thurnberg has starting stepping on their toes regarding the extensive enviornmental damages of the clothing industry. I worried several years ago that she was schmoozing with that crowd.

I'm also disheartened about the scams of the carbon offset companies. Some are legit, some are taking donations for timber industry planting they were already commercially engaged in ...some are downright stealing donations and doing nothing. There is no oversight for these businesses and many provide a false sense meaningful philanthropy to 'offset' the excesses of people that donate to them.
 
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senior chef said:
I would point out that the last ice age ended 10,000 years ago and the earth began to warm up. Think about that. Did the small campfires of pre-historic man cause that warming trend ? Not bloody likely.
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It may have, that is the basis of the Ruddiman hypothesis which has gained some acceptance, and I think makes some sense. Worth considering anyway. Ruddiman suggests that without human induced global warming we'd have been in an ice age for the past 5,000 years or so.

A good Scientific American article:

http://w2agz.com/Library/Climate Change/Ruddiman, March 2005, 16207527.pdf
 
grahamg said:
Just suppose, "for the sakes of argument" you are wrong, and someone else just might be on the money, "What then" would you suggest, were you ruler of the whole world, not just your own?
"One child policy across the globe"?
"Folks changing habits enough to at least have a go at reducing carbon emissions"?

We're only supposing here because as you can see from the thread title and my account of my own situation, "climate change" (real or imaginary?), isn't filling up too much of my head space right now! :unsure::oops::sneaky:
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What has this to do with his comment?
 
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