How Can Putin Save Face If He Backs Down?

With seemingly the protests in Russia against the current government and Putin growing tremendously and not just in small pockets there could be increasingly higher chances to overthrow the current government and Putin. These Russian protesters need to keep going for what is right for not only there country, but also the world.
 

Shows what I've increasingly been relating that one needs to be suspicious of what comes out of news media lest one be very surprised of how narratives change.

Belarus is the region immediately north of Ukraine's border that at one time was part of Poland along with Lithuania, Catholic ancestors on my maternal side came from [paternal French]. Great grand father's family who was in the Czar's army:
greatgrandfather_fam.jpg
 
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David777 said:
Shows what I've increasingly been relating that one needs to be suspicious of what comes out of news media lest one be very surprised of how its narrative begins to change.

Belarus is the region that at one time was part of Poland along with Lithuania, Catholic ancestors on my maternal side came from [paternal French]. Great grand father's family who was in the Czar's army:
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Beautiful photo of your family!
 
Don M. said:
Putin's Ego will override any good judgement he may still have....and potentially put All the world at risk. I just hope there are those in the Russian Hierarchy that can find a way to remove him from power.
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Interesting tidbits;


'To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside - if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history'
Putin 2022

'For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.'
Jesus Matthew 24
 
As much as we sometimes dislike Social Media, this has made it much more difficult for Putin to spread his propaganda during the attack on Ukraine. Every country's population around the world now knows how despicable he is, even the Russian population.

He still thinks we are living in 2010. I think this may contribute to his downfall. Even the great citizens of Russia are protesting by the thousands. And the children of Oligarchs are speaking out against him. He may go down in a blaze of glory, but I think he will go down.
 
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Putin is power hungry and is not going to back down for anyone. He will have to be forced to back down. Brave new world; I'm afraid!

I hear Belarus wants to or has already joined the Russkies! Could this be the beginning of WWIII? Putin is not only a bad, mean bully but before the invasion of last Thursday, he kept saying over and over that Russia does not have any intention of invading Ukraine and that the army was only doing it's "exercises." At that time I thought to myself, ya, Russia is the world's largest country and it has over 17 million square kilometers in size. It's west to east distance is about 9,000 km. If you ask this country boy, that's a lot of space to do your military exercises. If you ask me again, I'd say why do those exercises have to be right on the border of Eastern Ukraine? And Putin said they are not going to invade Ukraine. What a joke but it does prove that Putin is not only a bad, mean bully but he is also a bare-faced liar. He is just a "bad boy" no matter how you look at it. A bully and a liar!
 
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dseag2 said:
As much as we sometimes dislike Social Media, this has made it much more difficult for Putin to spread his propaganda during the attack on Ukraine. Every country's population around the world now knows how despicable he is, even the Russian population.
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Putin restricted social media within Russia of Facebook and/or Meta(?), total or near-total block of Twitter, etc
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60533083

"On Friday Russia restricted Facebook after a clash over "censorship".
Russia's communications regulator Roskomnadzor accused Facebook of violating "the rights and freedoms of Russian citizens".
Facebook said it had refused to stop fact-checking and labelling content from state-owned news organisations.
Internet connectivity watchers at NetBlocks say there is a total or near-total restriction on Twitter in Russia.

NetBlocks said Facebook and Instagram weren't "observably restricted per our metrics, certainly not to the extent Twitter is at present".
The actions follow Russia's attack on Ukraine with many videos and images of the invasion going viral on social media."
 
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dseag2 said:
As much as we sometimes dislike Social Media, this has made it much more difficult for Putin to spread his propaganda during the attack on Ukraine. Every country's population around the world now knows how despicable he is, even the Russian population.

He still thinks we are living in 2010. I think this may contribute to his downfall. Even the great citizens of Russia are protesting by the thousands. And the children of Oligarchs are speaking out against him. He may go down in a blaze of glory, but I think he will go down.
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this is one of the main reasons I believe a Cyber war will become all the more important for him to implement ..I have to tell you I'm more terrified of that than physical war... :eek:
 
I deleted my comment, as it's probably too "political." But it's really hard to answer a question about Putin without getting political. Putin is as much of a politician as any American political figure. His connections and decisions are all political ones.

Maybe this thread should be removed or locked?
 
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Daughter and i were talking about this over weekend. His Ego is indeed a huge problem. But if he took a step that brought NATO actively in to the fray, it might allow him to step back. Why? Because it's then not 1 country that he thought was easy pickings but a multinational alliance they'd be up against. What's more it would fit his 'NATO is a threat' narrative.

Some things to consider:

The parties are in ceasefire talks. That alone has got to feel like defeat to him, but he may feel he can 'spin' it as him being sensible and/or generous.

The Swiss have departed from over 500 yrs of neutrality to sanction Russia-- froze their accounts/assets (bet the oligarchs are not happy about that..) They did not even do that with the Nazis.

As Jace mentioned--the cost. The impact of sanctions on ordinary citizens could be the proverbial 'last straw' for them and i suspect his rich backers know that, they like things as they are.

A history lesson he seems to be ignoring from fall of USSR is that you can't overextend abroad while not taking proper care of citizens at home. Sooner or later they say "Enough! What about us?" Especially since it seems the people and many of the troops were told it was a training exercise and the Ukrainian people would be happy to see them.

@chic's comment about Covid. Hmmm, other health issue possible: i haven't seen it, but DD said she saw a clip of him in which one side of his face looked odd, droopy, as if he'd had a TIA, stroke. It may not be up to him at some point.

There are some points i cannot make here because they would blatantly reference American Political issues and cross the discretion line in my mind re the SF rules.
 
feywon said:
@chic's comment about Covid. Hmmm, other health issue possible: i haven't seen it, but DD said she saw a clip of him in which one side of his face looked odd, droopy, as if he'd had a TIA, stroke. It may not be up to him at some point.
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I noticed yesterday that his face was really puffy (prednisone type puffy) in his latest recorded speech. Searched this morning and found that others are noticing as well:

Five reasons 'puffy-faced' Putin could be seriously ill

Excerpts:

The Russian president has appeared notably more bloated around the face and neck recently. That has led to suggestions he may be undergoing treatment with steroids. Side effects of steroids include increased risk of infection, like coughs and colds, and "mood and behavioural changes."​
"Sometimes, when taken in higher doses, steroids can cause confusion or changes in thinking," according to Macmillan Cancer Support. "This can include having strange or frightening thoughts."​
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...[US Senate Intelligence Committee member] sees classified intelligence, which he can't talk about. However, he is at liberty to drop hints. And he has. Mr [redacted] said: "I wish I could share more, but for now, I can say it’s pretty obvious to many that something is off with Putin.​
"He has always been a killer, but his problem now is different and significant." ....later expanded that Mr Putin "appears to have some neuro/physiological health issues."​
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The assessment of a French official, following Mr Macron's marathon meeting with Mr Putin before the invasion, hinted at something.​
The official was quoted as saying that Mr Putin was "not the same" as when Mr Macron met him two years earlier. He was more rigid and ideological and had, in some respects, "gone haywire".​
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In November 2020 Professor Valery Solovei, a former historian at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, was quoted as suggesting Mr Putin may have Parkinson's disease and cancer. ...At the time Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said it was “absolute nonsense” and “everything is fine with the president.” ...Prof Solovei resigned from the institute, where he was head of the public relations department, in 2019, saying "political pressure" was responsible for his departure.​
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In his mission to restore what he considers lost Russian land, Mr Putin had previously taken a long view. ...For those reasons many Putin watchers expected him to adopt "salami tactics," taking Ukraine "slice by slice" over a period of time. They have been left puzzled as to why he would take such a gamble on capturing the whole of Ukraine, a country of 44 million people, in one go with a force military experts say was not enough. It only increases the suspicion that, perhaps, his health meant he was running out of time.​
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I don't know what the fuss is about Putin saving face. He lose it when he lied about Russia not intending to invade Ukraine. Putin has lost our trust and the trust of his country. He did not lose the trust of Ukraine because he never had it so how could he lose it? Once a leader loses trust it is nearly impossible to ever regain it.
 
AnnieA said:
I noticed yesterday that his face was really puffy (prednisone type puffy) in his latest recorded speech. Searched this morning and found that others are noticing as well:

Five reasons 'puffy-faced' Putin could be seriously ill

Excerpts:

The Russian president has appeared notably more bloated around the face and neck recently. That has led to suggestions he may be undergoing treatment with steroids. Side effects of steroids include increased risk of infection, like coughs and colds, and "mood and behavioural changes."​
"Sometimes, when taken in higher doses, steroids can cause confusion or changes in thinking," according to Macmillan Cancer Support. "This can include having strange or frightening thoughts."​
​
...[US Senate Intelligence Committee member] sees classified intelligence, which he can't talk about. However, he is at liberty to drop hints. And he has. Mr [redacted] said: "I wish I could share more, but for now, I can say it’s pretty obvious to many that something is off with Putin.​
"He has always been a killer, but his problem now is different and significant." ....later expanded that Mr Putin "appears to have some neuro/physiological health issues."​
​
The assessment of a French official, following Mr Macron's marathon meeting with Mr Putin before the invasion, hinted at something.​
The official was quoted as saying that Mr Putin was "not the same" as when Mr Macron met him two years earlier. He was more rigid and ideological and had, in some respects, "gone haywire".​
​
In November 2020 Professor Valery Solovei, a former historian at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, was quoted as suggesting Mr Putin may have Parkinson's disease and cancer. ...At the time Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said it was “absolute nonsense” and “everything is fine with the president.” ...Prof Solovei resigned from the institute, where he was head of the public relations department, in 2019, saying "political pressure" was responsible for his departure.​
​
In his mission to restore what he considers lost Russian land, Mr Putin had previously taken a long view. ...For those reasons many Putin watchers expected him to adopt "salami tactics," taking Ukraine "slice by slice" over a period of time. They have been left puzzled as to why he would take such a gamble on capturing the whole of Ukraine, a country of 44 million people, in one go with a force military experts say was not enough. It only increases the suspicion that, perhaps, his health meant he was running out of time.​
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I was kidding about him using testing positive for covid as an excuse to disappear as an exit strategy from this situation but this is all politics so I'm not getting involved. :rolleyes:​
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