How far is too far? (animal rights)

G

gennie

Senior Member
Location
USA
In the past 40 years, animal rights groups such as PETA have radically changed public opinion on the use of many everyday items; furs (even fake ones), leather, feathers, etc.

The latest push extends to such things as goose down for our comforters/vests and wool for our blankets/warm clothes. The very best goose down is obtained by live plucking and good producers are kept alive for several pluckings. No one who has watched sheep shearing can call it humane from the sheep's point of view.

Does our future mean relying on synthetics? Your thoughts?
 

gennie said:
No one who has watched sheep shearing can call it humane from the sheep's point of view.

Does our future mean relying on synthetics? Your thoughts?
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That remark displays an remarkable degree of ignorance. Shearing is necessary for the sheep's welfare and NOT shearing them would be inhumane. Unless it's from particular breeds, wool is not a commercial commodity, but it still costs to have them shorn.
 
There used to be someone near here that raised peacocks and sold their feathers. His pasture is now a subdivision and the peacock wander around on their own. The horses that they shared the pasture with are gone.
 
It's a difficult topic.

We live in a world today where many of the animal products are no longer needed or we have synthetic alternatives so we don't really need elephant tusks or baby seal skins.

Do we need pets, animals for entertainment, zoos, guide animals, rodeos, trained drug and bomb-sniffing animals?

I do think that if an animal is going to be killed it should be done as humanely as possible and that every bit of the animal should be used for some purpose with absolutely no waste.

I also wonder if we do stop using domesticated animals for food, clothing, etc... what will become of them. Will they become extinct due to starvation, neglect, etc...

I don't have any good answers or suggestions on where to draw the line.
 
I know this, farmers and ranchers don't give "a hoot" what PETA thinks. If they did, they wouldn't have an income! Beef cattle would be out wandering the Plains with no brand on them and sick from not getting medicine. Sheep wouldn't be able to walk around, due to all of the wool they'd have to carry. If it was left up to PETA, people would never have a nice T-bone, Porterhouse, prime rib or fillet minion. No more delicious baby back ribs, Memorial Day burgers or pork chops.
 
Animals of other species shouldn't have rights as such. However, they should not be treated cruelly for the sake of being cruel, and should be put down as humanely as possible.
 
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Humane treatment of all animals, and conservation efforts of endangered species, is extremely important to me. However, I do not support the tactics employed by PETA. I do support many of the thoroughbred horse rescues, they do a terrific job saving thoroughbreds from slaughter in Mexico and Canada. Trainers and owners dump them at auction when are broken down or too slow, and they are often bought by kill buyers, who pack them on overcrowded trucks to either north or south of the border.
 
gennie said:
In the past 40 years, animal rights groups such as PETA have radically changed public opinion on the use of many everyday items; furs (even fake ones), leather, feathers, etc.

The latest push extends to such things as goose down for our comforters/vests and wool for our blankets/warm clothes. The very best goose down is obtained by live plucking and good producers are kept alive for several pluckings. No one who has watched sheep shearing can call it humane from the sheep's point of view.

Does our future mean relying on synthetics? Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Aunt Bea said:
It's a difficult topic.

We live in a world today where many of the animal products are no longer needed or we have synthetic alternatives so we don't really need elephant tusks or baby seal skins.

Do we need pets, animals for entertainment, zoos, guide animals, rodeos, trained drug and bomb-sniffing animals?

I do think that if an animal is going to be killed it should be done as humanely as possible and that every bit of the animal should be used for some purpose with absolutely no waste.

I also wonder if we do stop using domesticated animals for food, clothing, etc... what will become of them. Will they become extinct due to starvation, neglect, etc...

I don't have any good answers or suggestions on where to draw the line.
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I honestly don't see the harm in having a well-treated pet. It seems mutually beneficial to both owner and dog. (I am allergic to cats!) But your post is well-thought out and raises some interesting questions.

In a hundred years, I don't think anyone will eat meat. But I'm just not that evolved yet.
 
The survival of many species are due to Zoos. These animals have been destroyed in their natural environments. A Zoo is a place where humans, as children, learn to love animals and hopefully this love lasts a lifetime. Yes, I remember hideous Zoos, but many are being updated. Zoos are more than entertainment. Entertainment isn't evil on it's face.
 
Pepper said:
The survival of many species are due to Zoos. These animals have been destroyed in their natural environments. A Zoo is a place where humans, as children, learn to love animals and hopefully this love lasts a lifetime. Yes, I remember hideous Zoos, but many are being updated. Zoos are more than entertainment. Entertainment isn't evil on it's face.
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I never liked zoos much, even as a child.
 
I always thought they used dead geese /for feathers...
sheep sheared the right way is a little traumatic but does no harm -and sheep have to be dipped ..they take wool from alpacas now in the uk ..it's good to have animal rights law inforced' as I have seen awful cruelty ' worked for RSPCA for 10 years..

spain is a worse offender for all animals ' and the middle east -and china with there animal meat markets incl cats dogs -
makes u wonder about their virus's
 
Inhumane treatment of animals is so disturbing. The worst offenders do seem to be in China, but it's their culture and has been for centuries. Maybe they will change their practices on inhumane practice of animals someday.
 
never did like zoo's cages etc --gives me really bad vibes so I keep clear of any -I like the safari parks are far the best
for all animals we have some lovely ones in the UK.
 
I think zoos these days are more into natural habitat type settings, and really strive to make it comfortable for the animals. We tend to forget that being in the wild involves risk and hardship, and animals usually live longer in captivity than in the wild. zoos are educational, and the knowledge gained there can also help animals in the wild.

As far as PETA goes, they can kiss my you-know-what. They have taken things WAY too far. I'm not about to become a vegetarian, and I resent them for trying to make people feel bad about eating meat or wearing leather shoes.
 
gennie said:
furs (even fake ones), leather, feathers, etc. The latest push extends to such things as goose down for our comforters/vests and wool for our blankets/warm clothes. The very best goose down is obtained by live plucking and good producers are kept alive for several pluckings. No one who has watched sheep shearing can call it humane from the sheep's point of view.
Click to expand...

I don't wear leather and won't wear fake fur because it looks like real fur, gives wearing fur legitimacy. Fur was necessary in the stone age when there were no other options for clothing. Are we still Neanderthals? Sheep shearers have to go fast and sometimes they cut the animal and they sew up the wound without any anesthesia.

Capt Lightning said:
That remark displays an remarkable degree of ignorance. Shearing is necessary for the sheep's welfare and NOT shearing them would be inhumane. Unless it's from particular breeds, wool is not a commercial commodity, but it still costs to have them shorn.
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I've seen animals in the wild shed their winter coats when it gets warm: moose, wild horses etc, I'm sure the sheep would too if given the chance.

JimBob1952 said:
When is PETA going to send protesters to the Serengeti to stop lions from eating antelopes?
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Lions HAVE to eat meat, humans have other options.
 
With animals in the wild, there is never any doubt about where everyone is on the food chain. Without guns and cages, man would be no where near the top.
 
Most breeds of sheep today have lost their ability to shed, and so must be shorn. I haven't worn wool in years, but I imagine PETA wants us to give that up as well.
 
Catlady said:
I don't wear leather and won't wear fake fur because it looks like real fur, gives wearing fur legitimacy. Fur was necessary in the stone age when there were no other options for clothing. Are we still Neanderthals? Sheep shearers have to go fast and sometimes they cut the animal and they sew up the wound without any anesthesia.


I've seen animals in the wild shed their winter coats when it gets warm: moose, wild horses etc, I'm sure the sheep would too if given the chance.


Lions HAVE to eat meat, humans have other options.
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Catlady said:
I don't wear leather and won't wear fake fur because it looks like real fur, gives wearing fur legitimacy. Fur was necessary in the stone age when there were no other options for clothing. Are we still Neanderthals? Sheep shearers have to go fast and sometimes they cut the animal and they sew up the wound without any anesthesia.


I've seen animals in the wild shed their winter coats when it gets warm: moose, wild horses etc, I'm sure the sheep would too if given the chance.


Lions HAVE to eat meat, humans have other options.
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True enough. Lions are obligate carnivores and we (like bears and raccoons) are omnivores. I think veganism is great ethically and environmentally, I'm just not evolved enough as a human being to practice it.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I also wonder if we do stop using domesticated animals for food, clothing, etc... what will become of them. Will they become extinct due to starvation, neglect, etc...
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They will not starve en masse because they won't be breeding en masse. They will live like deers and moose and other wild animals, subject to dangers and starvation just like them. It's not like the farmers and ranchers will set millions of cattle and hogs loose, they will slaughter them first. Of course, cattle and hogs and other food animals have become dumb from thousands of years of domestication, so most will probably perish in the beginning until evolution with time will make them wildlife smart.

As far as extinction, we're slowly getting there. And to quote one of my favorite people, Chief Seattle;

images
 
gennie said:
With animals in the wild, there is never any doubt about where everyone is on the food chain. Without guns and cages, man would be no where near the top.
Click to expand...
gennie said:
With animals in the wild, there is never any doubt about where everyone is on the food chain. Without guns and cages, man would be no where near the top.
Click to expand...
Humans are puny creatures physically -- weak and slow by animal standards. It's our big brains that put us on top of the food chain. Maybe we can use those big brains to wean ourselves from dependence on animals, but it's going to take some doing.
 

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