How Much Military is Enough? Are "Standing Armies" Now Accepted in the United States of America?

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How Much Military is Enough? Are "Standing Armies" Now Accepted in the United States of America?

It's confusing to me that a standing army was supposed to be a very bad thing according to the constitution, a threat to American liberty. But now I hear that those who are always complaining about politicians not following the constitution are the same people who have no problem with having our troops stationed all over the world, especially the middle east.

They seem to be the same people who have no trouble starting other senseless wars that will involve our military, and cause more of our troops to stand ground on foreign land. They also don't seem to have an issue with the militarization of our police force in America, and the overreach of Homeland Security. Haven't we had standing armies since before 9/11 even? If so, why aren't those who preach the constitution upset about that? Maybe they are, but I don't hear anything about it. Maybe I just don't understand what a standing army is or is not.:confused: (from 2013) http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/28/the-force


"The U.S. once regarded a standing army as a form of tyranny. Now it spends more on defense than all other nations combined.

2001, military spending, as a function of the over-all American economy, was, at six per cent, the lowest it had been since the Second World War. Then, for a decade, it rose. In much the same way that the peace dividend expected with the Allied victory never came because of the Cold War (during most of which military spending made up roughly half the federal budget), a peace dividend expected after the end of the Warsaw Pact, in 1991, came but didn’t last.

Instead, after 9/11 the United States declared a “global war on terror,” a fight against fear itself. The Iraq War, 2003-11, went on longer than the American Revolution. The war in Afghanistan, begun in 2001, isn’t over yet, making it the second-longest war in American history. (Only Vietnam lasted longer.) Troops may be withdrawn in 2014; the fighting will rage on. During George W. Bush’s second term, the National Defense Strategy of the United States became “ending tyranny in our world.” But a war to end tyranny has no end; it’s not even a war.

The United States, separated from much of the world by two oceans and bordered by allies, is, by dint of geography, among the best-protected countries on earth. Nevertheless, six decades after V-J Day nearly three hundred thousand American troops are stationed overseas, including fifty-five thousand in Germany, thirty-five thousand in Japan, and ten thousand in Italy. Much of the money that the federal government spends on “defense” involves neither securing the nation’s borders nor protecting its citizens. Instead, the U.S. military enforces American foreign policy.

“We have hundreds of military bases all over the world,” Melvin A. Goodman observes in “National Insecurity: The Cost of American Militarism” (City Lights). “Few other countries have any.”

Goodman, a former Army cryptographer and a longtime C.I.A. analyst who taught at the National War College for eighteen years, is one of a growing number of critics of U.S. military spending, policy, and culture who are veterans of earlier wars. Younger veterans are critical, too. A 2011 Pew survey of veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq found that half thought the war in Afghanistan wasn’t worth fighting, and nearly sixty per cent thought the Iraq War wasn’t.

The most persuasive of these soldier-critics is Andrew J. Bacevich, a West Point graduate who fought in Vietnam in 1970 and 1971; served as a career Army officer, rising to the rank of colonel; and is now a professor of history and international relations at Boston University. A Catholic and a conservative, Bacevich is viscerally pained by Americans’ ”infatuation with military power.” Everything, in Bacevich’s account, comes back to Vietnam, the way it does for a great many of that war’s veterans, including Chuck Hagel, the President’s nominee for Secretary of Defense.

Lately, Bacevich argues, Americans “have fallen prey to militarism, manifesting itself in a romanticized view of soldiers, a tendency to see military power as the truest measure of national greatness, and outsized expectations regarding the efficacy of force.

.

The United States, a nation founded on opposition to a standing army, is now a nation engaged in a standing war.

Bacevich locates the origins of America’s permanent war more than a decade before 9/11. “During the entire Cold War era, from 1945 through 1988, large-scale U.S. military actions abroad totalled a scant six,” he reports. “Since the fall of the Berlin Wall, however, they have become almost annual events.” Bacevich places much of the blame for this state of affairs on intellectuals, especially neoconservatives like Norman Podhoretz and Donald Rumsfeld, but also liberals, who, he points out, have eagerly supported the use of the military and of military force “not as an obstacle to social change but as a venue in which to promote it.” The resort to force is not a partisan position; it is a product of political failure.

And a failure, as well, of political culture. CNN loudmouths, neocon opinion-page columnists, retired generals who run for office, Hollywood action-film directors, Jerry Falwell, Wesley Clark, Tom Clancy, Bill Clinton—Bacevich has long since lost patience with all these people. He deplores their ego-driven mythmaking, their love of glory, their indifference to brutality.

War, by its nature, is barbarous, grievous, and untamable. There never has been a “smart war.” Still, some wars are worse than others. “Surely, the surprises, disappointments, painful losses, and woeful, even shameful failures of the Iraq War make clear the need to rethink the fundamentals of U.S. military policy,” Bacevich suggested in his 2005 book “The New American Militarism: How Americans Are Seduced by War.” That scrutiny has not yet been given, not least because, as Bacevich has observed, “The citizens of the United States have essentially forfeited any capacity to ask first-order questions about the fundamentals of national security policy.” Don’t ask, don’t tell. But, especially, don’t ask.

“There are some in government who want to use the military to pay for the rest, to protect the sacred cow that is entitlement spending,” McKeon said, in his opening remarks, referring to Social Security and Medicare. “Not only should that be a non-starter from a national-security and economic perspective, but it should also be a non-starter from a moral perspective.” Cuts should be made, he said, not to “the protector of our prosperity” but to “the driver of the debt.”

“The driver of our debt is our military-complex machine!” someone shouted from the gallery.

The Capitol Hill Police stepped in and arrested several protesters, including Leah Bolger, the vice-president of Veterans for Peace.
“The war machine is killing this country!” she cried, as she was carried away.

The hearing resumed. McKeon introduced Panetta. But the moment Panetta began to speak a protester interrupted. He identified himself as an Iraq War veteran. “You are murdering people!” he shouted. “I saw what we did to people. I saw.” He was escorted out of the room.

The hearing lasted two more hours. Much time was spent defending defense spending. “I don’t believe that the D.O.D. should have to pay one penny more in discretionary budget cuts,” McKeon said. Much time was devoted to inventorying threats to national security, which, Panetta said, are only increasing in both danger and number. (His list included Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, and North Africa.)

Hank Johnson, a Democrat from Georgia, attempted to draw an analogy between the Capitol Hill Police’s ability to arrest protesters in a hearing room in the Rayburn House Office Building and the deployment of U.S. forces in every corner of the globe. “From time to time, there are disturbances throughout the world, and these disturbances may interrupt some of our various interests around the world, and it is necessary for us to have some kind of force to maintain order,” he said. “It is like competition, like capitalism.”

Protesters are by no means uncommon at congressional hearings, but this particular protest had rattled people. “I know we started the day with protesters in the room, and sometimes they seem disruptive or their tactics are some we might argue with,” Chellie Pingree, a Democrat from Maine, said. “But, frankly, we are facing a time when there are protesters in almost every city where we reside or represent.”

This time—emboldened, maybe, by the protesters—a few committee members offered comments that were more pointed. Niki Tsongas, a Democrat from Massachusetts, told Dempsey, “I would hope you also take into account that not every risk can be dealt with through a military response.” And the questions were tougher. Walter B. Jones, a Republican* from North Carolina, asked Panetta, “Why are we still in Afghanistan?”

Panetta circled around an answer. “One thing we do not want,” he said, “is Afghanistan becoming a safe haven again for Al Qaeda.”
“Mr. Secretary,” Jones pressed, “we got bin Laden, and Al Qaeda has dispersed all around the world. Let’s bring them home.”

But by far the most adamant statement came from Dempsey. “I didn’t become the chairman of the Joint Chiefs to oversee the decline of the Armed Forces of the United States, and an end state that would have this nation and its military not be a global power,” he said. “That is not who we are as a nation.”

Either the United States rules the world or Americans are no longer Americans? Happily, that’s not the choice the 113th Congress faces. The decision at hand concerns limits, not some kind of national, existential apocalypse. Force requires bounds. Between militarism and pacifism lie diplomacy, accountability, and restraint. Dempsey’s won’t be the last word. ♦"


*A redistricting of California’s Twenty-fifth Congressional District went into effect in January, 2013. The district no longer includes a naval weapons station, Army fort, or a Marine mountain-warfare training center.
*Walter B. Jones is a Republican, not a Democrat, as originally stated.
*Executives from the Lockheed Corporation appeared at the hearings and before a Senate Committee. They were not from Lockheed Martin, as originally stated; the Lockheed Corporation became Lockheed Martin in 1995.
*The original article stated that Andrew Bacevich, Jr., served in the U.S. Army’s Third Battalion, but there are multiple Third Battalions in the U.S. Army.
 

Some reasons we do have military around the world are they are used for many purposes. They do stand ready for defending many of our friends around the world from attacks by some not so reliable friends? like Russia or China. We have troops standing by in Europe, at first to discourage some countries from recovering from WWII and then starting right of into attacking their neighbors as before. Similar for having troops in Japan. We also keep some troops in Europe to help discourage Russia from expanding westward once again as they were trying to do after WWII. First for support and then as friendly neighbors ready to help defend Japan if attacked by other countries like North Korea. We have kept many troops in South Korea as a helping hand to the South Koreans in case North Korea decides to restart the never ended Korean war.

I have not reread the Constitution about standing armies for the US. I do believe in being prepared with treaties and their obligations and for having a trained and equipment prepared groups available in locations around the world to try to end the threats of another world wide war. We really don't have two or more years to train or equip armies when other countries do have ships, subs, aircraft of many sizes, ready to attack and wising t win and put the US and many other countries out of business and turned into their slaves if not just killed.
 

A lot of these people who are so gung ho about increasing our military budget are the same people who are so preoccupied by the country's deficit and haven't encouraged their son or daughter to join the military.


I think to an extent you're right Josiah but I think those people are lobbied by the military industries to increase the budget/ignore the deficit. Those industries have seen a 27,699% profit in the last 50 years. And that figure is from a study that JP Morgan did a couple years ago.
 
Eisenhower warned about the "Military/Industrial Complex", and few in Washington listened. Teddy Roosevelt said we should "Speak Softly, but Carry a Big Stick", but that concept seems to have gone over the heads of our politicians. For some reason our leaders have decided that we should be the world's policeman, and that has made us a target for every lunatic out there. There may have been some justification to station troops in Europe, Japan and Korea, for a brief period of time until those governments could regroup and stand alone again. However, as we expend billions every year to "protect" these nations, they devote their resources to building up their industries and improving their economies, instead of building their own defenses....and our nation suffers from job losses and a crumbling infrastructure, as a result.

Many of our "allies" are friends, so long as it suits their needs...but when it comes time to commit, they seem to have little to offer.
 
Unfortunately the last 8 years of increased of our debt has been in the hands of the Democrat controlled federal government. Really no explanations of why and for what that I have found to flag. Just that the problems from the $7.5 trillion debt to our present $18 trillion debt was under Democrat controlled Congress and Presidency. Right now we have a Republican Congress but possibility of stopping the rise in spending will depend on their ability to change the Presidents want to continue to spend far more than we have the ability to take from the people.

In my part of the US our costs of living have been steadily rising for those of us that still would like to eat, buy clothing, pay for houses, not much mercy in our daily lives. I was hoping that changing out Congress would help a bit but so far not much.

Our military cost is more determined by our friendship treaties of sharing and mutual defense needs. I guess we could just use a shredder to end those obligations.
 
This ballooning National Debt is the 800lb. Gorilla lurking in the corner, just waiting to attack us all. If this issue isn't seriously addressed, the US may one day use the same approach that other governments have used....and devalue the dollar. This would totally Screw every average citizen, and wipe out the asset value of millions of our people. In 2014, our government paid out over 430 billion...just in interest on this debt...430 billion that did Nothing worthwhile for the citizens of the US....other than the holders of our increasingly worthless T-Bills.

Changing Congress isn't going to accomplish much to resolve this, so long as both sides of the aisle continue to spend like drunken sailors, and refuse to cut the waste, and won't rewrite our tax codes to get rid of thousands of pages of tax dodges and loopholes.

Our "friendship treaties" are written such that the US bears the brunt of any military actions, worldwide, and our "friends" offer token support.
 
When Bill Clinton was President he had a conservative congress which helped him reduce the national debt while in office. That could happen now if the President Obama would allow that to happen. It does not look like the President will allow that so far with his new and conservative Congress.
 
Eisenhower was speaking relative to his earlier years of not much military for the US and then we really had very little Army, Navy, or Air Force. Back when we mostly used draftees to be our ready force it did not take long to create an army. Today it takes years of development and training for the many current positions. We still do some hand to hand and rifle shooting as in the old days but we also have equipment that needs years to develop and months to train operators. These modern armies are really not something that can be kept in the closet until that unwanted war comes at us. We need to keep a fair size military at all times and to keep our promises to other nations they need to be visible and ready to move.
 
The US ran up a massive national debt during WWII...almost 120% of GDP. However, in the decade following, that debt was paid off by cutting spending, and raising large amounts of tax revenues....individual income tax rates rose as high as 92% on the wealthy. We are once again facing a National Debt that is at, or over the current GDP, but there appears to be No willingness in Washington to tackle this issue. Instead, they just push the problem further down the road every year, and this does not bode well for the nations future. Clinton began to reverse the trend, but Bush..with his unfunded wars...threw the spigot wide open, and Obama/Congress have been unwilling to do anything to generate the revenues to pay for these unfunded wars, and our ballooning national expenditures.

No one relishes the thought of paying higher taxes, but if we are going to leave our kids and grandkids a decent nation, we MUST bite the bullet and get rid of this debt. Our parents cared enough about the nation to make the necessary sacrifices after WWII, but I guess today's people are not as caring.
 
I think to an extent you're right Josiah but I think those people are lobbied by the military industries to increase the budget/ignore the deficit. Those industries have seen a 27,699% profit in the last 50 years. And that figure is from a study that JP Morgan did a couple years ago.

War does seem to be big business that benefits a few over the general population who has to ultimately pay for it with money and lives lost. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/war-is-great-for-the-1-but-makes-the-99-poorer.html

In the entire run-up to war, George Bush just assumed as a matter of policy that it was his decision alone whether to invade Iraq. The objections by Ron Paul and some other members of Congress and vast numbers of the American population were reduced to little more than white noise in the background. Imagine if he had to raise the money for the war through taxes. It never would have happened.

But he didn’t have to. He knew the money would be there. So despite a $200 billion deficit, a $9 trillion debt, $5 trillion in outstanding debt instruments held by the public, a federal budget of $3 trillion, and falling tax receipts in 2001, Bush contemplated a war that has cost $525 billion dollars — or $4,681 per household. Imagine if he had gone to the American people to request that. What would have happened? I think we know the answer to that question. And those are government figures; the actual cost of this war will be far higher — perhaps $20,000 per household.
 
The US ran up a massive national debt during WWII...almost 120% of GDP. However, in the decade following, that debt was paid off by cutting spending, and raising large amounts of tax revenues....individual income tax rates rose as high as 92% on the wealthy. We are once again facing a National Debt that is at, or over the current GDP, but there appears to be No willingness in Washington to tackle this issue. Instead, they just push the problem further down the road every year, and this does not bode well for the nations future. Clinton began to reverse the trend, but Bush..with his unfunded wars...threw the spigot wide open, and Obama/Congress have been unwilling to do anything to generate the revenues to pay for these unfunded wars, and our ballooning national expenditures.

No one relishes the thought of paying higher taxes, but if we are going to leave our kids and grandkids a decent nation, we MUST bite the bullet and get rid of this debt. Our parents cared enough about the nation to make the necessary sacrifices after WWII, but I guess today's people are not as caring.

Clinton began to reverse the trend, but Bush..with his unfunded wars...threw the spigot wide open

Clinton had the help of a conservative congress that wanted the debt reduced. Bush did well, only a small amount added to the debt until his last two years when Pelosi and Reid opened the gates for uncontrolled spending. Bush could not control that wild spending as Pelosi and Reid would not pass the regular budget stuff without their own wild and uncontrolled spending added on.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/...-to-gdp.html?federal-debt-to-gdp-politics.gif

 
This has come up before, it seems to be debatable that the debt is always blamed on one party, I don't buy it that the democrats are always at fault. As far as the standing army, I guess it's alright to preach the constitution by some, but go against it when it suits their agendas?

http://zfacts.com/p/57.html

Conservatives are embarassed by the way Reagan and the Bushes ran the debt up and out of control. So they have invented a cover story: The Democratic Congress did it. I have run into this lie dozens of times. So, I dug deep to set the record straight.
zFacts-Reagan-Not-Congress.png
As the figure shows, Reagan and Bush senior got almost exactly the budgest they requested in each of their 12 budget years.
  • Reagan:
  • The first budget — passed by all Republicans and a few conservative Southern Democrats.
    • This increased the debt by $144 Billion.(1)
  • The next 5 budgets — passed by the Republican Senate and signed by Reagan.
  • The last 2 budgets — passed by a Democratic Congress
    • Totalled slightly less than Reagan requested.
  • G. H. W. Bush:
  • Democratic Congresses under Bush passed smaller budgets than he requested in 3 out of 4 years.
  • These four Democratic budgets totalled $14.6 Billion less than Bush requested.
  • G. W. Bush:
  • The first two budgets — Senate was split 50/50 and the House was Democratic.
    • Bipartisan and totalled $20 Billion less than Bush requested.
    • The biggest cause of deficits was Bush’s enormous tax cut, mainly for the rich.
  • The next 4 budgets — the Congress was solid Republican.
  • The last 2 budgets — Bush vetoed(2) modest Democratic attempts at spending.
In summary: Democrats controlled Congress during 8 out the 20 years. During 4 of those years, Democrats decreased the budgets proposed by the Republican presidents. Their total effect during those 8 years was to reduce Republican budgets by $17 Billion (which is only 0.2%).



http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

National Debt Graph by President

Oct 24, 2014. When did the National Debt go crazy? Why? Who’s to blame? Where is the debt headed? Compared to the US economy, the national debt is smaller than it was after World War II. But, take a look at what could have happened if three presidents had balanced their budgets. [Email the Fact Card]The National Debt: Voodoo from Wall Street

Oct 24, 2014. What if Reagan and the Bushes had balanced their budgets? How much lower would the debt be now? We’ll get to that shortly, but first, how did we get into this mess? This may just be the weirdest political tale you’ve every heard.

World War II cost a bundle, and the country started out in the Great Depression. It was flat broke. But Uncle Sam was popular and the country patriotic, and people were happy to lend him money. Compared to the size of the economy back then, the debt soon outstripped even today’s debt, and we won the war.

US-national-debt-GDP-graph.png
The data for actual Debt-as-%-of-GDP for 1940-2006 comes from George W. Bush’s OMB Historical Table 7.1 for FY 2008 — download. (spreadsheet) (Why graph Debt / GDP ?)

After the war, they started paying off the debt, and the economy (and its GDP) grew. And for 35 years the debt kept getting smaller compared to the GDP. When it was the smallest (as compared to GDP) than it had been in 50 years, Reagan was elected (1980) and vowed to shrink it even more drastically.

But he had an odd theory: Cut taxes and the government would collect so much more money that he could spend more and still pay down the debt. Even before he was elected, George H. W. Bush called this “Voodoo economics,” and so it was.
The result, of course, was that the debt stopped decreasing and shot through the roof, as seen in the graph above.

By 1987, even Ron Paul (who loved the tax-cut part) blurted out: “How is it that the party of balanced budgets, with control of the White House and Senate, accumulated red ink greater than all previous administrations put together?” And so it had. Starting with a debt of $1 trillion, in eight years Reagan raised it to $2.8 trillion. Even relative to the bigger economy, this was as bad as it had been 28 years earlier. (And no, the House did not do it to him. The budgets Congress passed were almost identical to what he asked for and on average a tiny bit more balanced.)
Why did he do it?

So how the heck did this happen to the guy that rode to office on complaints of an out-of-control debt that was as big as a stack of $1000 bills 67 miles high? How did he come to add another 128 miles to that stack?Reagan took some economics in college, and he really did want to reduce the debt. But he got snookered by some Wall Street “economists” (mostly political journalists) who told him he could have his cake and eat it too.

They came up with the brand-new theory, mentioned above, that said the government can collect more money by reducing taxes. Wouldn’t that be nice! That’s the supply-side economics that George H. W. Bush called Voodoo.
It was first tested by Reagan. Bush I tried and failed to undo the Voodoo, and Bush II reinstated it after Clinton. Altogether there were 20 Voodoo budgets. And every single time the debt not only went up, it went up faster than the economy grew — usually much faster. Before the Voodoo, 26 of the previous 35 budgets resulted in the debt shrinking relative to GDP. Reagan’s first budget was the turning point.
Debt: Total owed from past and present borrowing. Deficit: This year’s borrowing.
Of course some supply-siders noticed this too, and when Treasury Sect. Paul O’Neil complained that cutting taxes would increase the deficit, V.P. Cheney just replied “You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.” In fact, many seemed to like the deficits and complain about them only when Democrats were in power. They saw them as helping to “strangle the government.”So how big is this supply-side / Republican debt?

My answer is not entirely fair, because I calculate it by the Republican method, but it seems fair to hold them to their own standards. And it makes the calculation transparent and understandable. You be the judge. So just what is the Republican approach? There should always be a balanced budget — they even want to put that into the constitution. As Ron Paul said, they are the party of balanced budgets.So we will ask, “What if Reagan and the Bushes had balanced their own budgets?” And what if Clinton and Obama had taxed the same and spent the same as they actually did?The answer is that the National Debt would now be lower by $13.5 trillion!

So that’s the Republican National Debt — according to their own standard of balanced budgets.
It’s quite easy to check these calculations (see this spreadsheet). They go like this: When Reagan took office the debt was $1 trillion. When he left it was $2.86 trillion. So $1.86 trillion for him. Then Bush-I added $1.55 trillion. Total so far: $3.4 trillion. Then Clinton took over. Now the national debt is like a mortgage, and so the bigger it is, the more interest must be paid on it. Without the extra Reagan-Bush $3.4 trillion, there would have been a few hundred billion less in interest on the debt every year under Clinton. That interest adds another $2.3 trillion to the Reagan-Bush debt. Then Bush II increased it by $6.1 trillion to $11.8 trillion. And interest on that has been increasing the debt under Obama. The total Reagan-Bushes debt is now $13.5 trillion.Why this matters

Supply-side economics is outrageously dishonest. The supply-siders didn’t even mind conning their own man Reagan. The tax-cut “theory” only actually applied to the rich. So the plan was to cut tax rates for the rich in half, which they did. To get this through they had to cut taxes for the middle class some too, but they counted on inflation pushing the middle class back into higher tax brackets.

But cutting the top bracket had a permanent effect because there is no higher bracket to get pushed into.
So not only was cutting taxes to raise money crazy, it was just a deception to cut taxes for the richest and then use the deficits to force cuts in services for the middle class and the poor. The Republicans have almost all gone over to the supply side now, and many, like Reagan, have been brainwashed into believing it. G.W. Bush claimed he would “retire nearly $1 trillion in debt over the next four years.

This will be the largest debt reduction ever achieved by any nation at any time.” I think he actually believed that.
When the Voodoo started, that’s exactly when the debt went out of control. And 20 out of 20 budgets can’t be an accident. Especially when you consider that Clinton was handed a Voodoo budget headed in the wrong direction, stopped that, turned it around and ended up with the debt reduced from 66% to 58% of GDP.But I need your help on this. Can you email this to a friend? (It’s set up for you here.) Or could you share this with one of the sharing buttons? (Note the 37,000 facebook likes, below. —Thanks, those have helped!)There are a lot of lies in circulation. Blaming the Democrats for the debt is just one of them. What about Obama?

Notice how the debt accelerated during Bush’s last two budget years. Obama’s debt is a continuation of that trend and neither Bush nor Obama are directly responsible for that acceleration. It happened because of the recession. (Bush was responsible for the turn-around from surplus to deficit soon after he took office, but not for the impact of the recession on the budget.)

Nonetheless, Bush set the all-time record by increasing the debt by $1.1 trillion in 100 days between July 30 and Nov 9, 2008—but that had little to do with his choices.
Recessions cut tax revenues—in this case, dramatically. That accounts for nearly half of the deficit. So blaming Obama for the full deficit is like blaming him for not raising the tax rate to keep tax revenues up. Most of the increased spending is automatic increases in unemployment benefits, food stamps, and social security payments for early retirement. Very little of it is from stimulus spending, and that’s over.Now we see that the economy is growing almost as fast as the debt, so in the last year, the debt has not outstripped economic growth by much. Economic growth is the main way that the WWII debt was brought down relative to GDP.

 
Whew, those last couple of charts do not agree with what the US government has put together, which is more like the chart I used. When the Congress is Democrat our debts go up and when the Congress is Republican and the President is Democrat the debt goes down. I look at those other charts, read the text, but still don't see reality in those charts and conclusions. We have a country that has been totally driven out into debt we must settle or end up in deep financial problems as some others have already posted on this thread.

To me, we need to redo the entire tax code and eliminate all these ways folks have to avoid paying a fair share, in all possible income ranges and adjust the taxes accordingly.
 


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