How to Help Someone Who Won’t Help Themselves?

PamfromTx

PamfromTx

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“We work on ourselves in order to help others, but also we help others in order to work on ourselves.” ~Pema Chodron

Very rarely do people open up to genuine help when they feel like someone is looking down on them or projecting onto them. None of us want to feel judged, misunderstood, or coerced into believing something when we’re not ready.

So what do we want? What is it that helps people create change when they’re struggling and resistant to help?
 

pamelasmithwick said:
So what do we want? What is it that helps people create change when they’re struggling and resistant to help?
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Probably lots of answers to that! Sometimes it's acknowledging and letting a person "be where they are." I taught dialysis patients a very unfun diet for years. Most people weren't happy to hear what I had to say initially, so I started with the five stages of grief and why it's so hard to learn and be motivated when cycling through those stages. A lot of times I could see a light bulb change in facial expressions. People would go from "I'm about to be preached to" to "someone is trying to understand me" and I could see that shift take place on their face. Sometimes within 10 minutes or so, a patient would go from resistant to receptive. Sometimes I could tell they weren't go to be receptive at all that day and I'd ask if we could do the instruction later ...let it be a thing they could control while their bodies were newly out of control.

But sometimes people never made it out of denial, never wanted to 'connect' and that's where I'd go with the scripture "Don't cast your pearls before swine." lol! Sometimes that's the hardest part ...recognizing that for whatever reason, a person is not going to let go of whatever it is holding them back and accepting that it's their choice.
 
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In the 12 Step programs, the saying is that when people "get sick and tired of being sick and tired" they will seek help and there is little others can do for them until they reach that point, also called "hitting bottom". I suppose a gentler way of saying it is that "when the student is ready, the teacher will come along". In this case, the "teacher" is the person who can help the one suffering.

Other than that, I don't have any answers so I am sure I will learn a lot from continuing to read this thread.

Tony
 

I'm a terrible person to ask such, as my adage is, "people are the product of their own making".

I don't say that in a crass way, but there have been people come and go in my life that I have turned myself inside-out, backwards, and upside-down for, all to no avail, so please excuse my (what sounds like) lack of patience for such.
 
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What I would prefer in terms of helping other people is simply being a guide. There is no doubt in my mind and through my experience that people will do what they want to do whatever advice you may want to give them. I have learned to be a listener (hopefully) and will now throw back the question 'what do you want to do'? or 'what do you think is the right way to move forward 'etc etc? Given my background I don't want to question the ways of others but perhaps attempt to get them to question their ways. We all have an opportunity to turn our lives around but some find it more difficult than others, I understand that, but I would also say that sometimes there are people who just want to offload time and time again and do not want to move on (The boy who cried wolf). When we feel we are helping we feel lifted when we feel we are being continuously the 'off loader' we are drained. For me therein lies the difference.
In simple words do what you can but not at the expense of your own physical health or mental health. Hope this is makes sense. ☺
 
Treacle said:
What I would prefer in terms of helping other people is simply being a guide. There is no doubt in my mind and through my experience that people will do what they want to do whatever advice you may want to give them. I have learned to be a listener (hopefully) and will now throw back the question 'what do you want to do'? or 'what do you think is the right way to move forward 'etc etc? Given my background I don't want to question the ways of others but perhaps attempt to get them to question their ways. We all have an opportunity to turn our lives around but some find it more difficult than others, I understand that, but I would also say that sometimes there are people who just want to offload time and time again and do not want to move on (The boy who cried wolf). When we feel we are helping we feel lifted when we feel we are being continuously the 'off loader' we are drained. For me therein lies the difference.
In simple words do what you can but not at the expense of your own physical health or mental health. Hope this is makes sense. ☺
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Very well put (as are the other posts in this thread). I wanted especially to comment on your signature using a quote from James Allen. I have long enjoyed his writings and others of that genre and from that period.

Tony
 
tbeltrans said:
Very well put (as are the other posts in this thread). I wanted especially to comment on your signature using a quote from James Allen. I have long enjoyed his writings and others of that genre and from that period.

Tony
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Was not aware of a quote by James Allen and forgive me @tbeltrans I was not aware of who you referred to but will look him up. Thank you. I just wrote what was in my head but thanks again. I always like to learn. ☺
 
fuzzybuddy said:
You asked how to help people, who won't help[ themselves. The short answer is- no, you can't.
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That is often the case. Over the past 3 or 4 years, one of my cousins and his wife began to decline...mentally. Everyone in the family recognized that they were going downhill, but no matter what anyone tried to say or do, this couple refused to seek help. Eventually, they became consumed with their dementia, and had to be placed in a care facility. They had no kids, so the burden fell on their brothers/sisters to get them taken care of. At least they had the finances to afford quality care, but to this day they seem to think that everything is hunky-dory, and everyone else is nuts.
 
Treacle said:
Was not aware of a quote by James Allen and forgive me @tbeltrans I was not aware of who you referred to but will look him up. Thank you. I just wrote what was in my head but thanks again. I always like to learn. ☺
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It is in your signature:

"You are today where your thoughts have brought you; you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you.”– James Allen

Look at any of your posts in this thread and you will see it. :) Anyway, it is a great thing to remember, and I appreciate the reminder.

Tony
 
If a person is not ready to change then all you can do is keep the lines of communication open and wait for them to come to you with a plan.

I will help the people close to me if I believe that the underlying problem has been solved/resolved but until that happens any help is just a form of enabling.

I've also found over the years that sometimes it's better not to be too quick to offer help to people. Sometimes it's better to give them time to come up with their own solutions.

It's been my experience that when a person has a problem they immediately go to the solution that solved their problems in the past. If that solution was a trip to the bank of Mom and Dad then that will be the first stop every time until that solution no longer works. It's not easy but sometimes it's better to stand back let them flounder and figure it out for themselves. In the long run, it will make them stronger and more confident.
 
I agree with the you can't. The only thing you can do is to show them the love and compassion you have for them and their situation without any expectation that they are going to change or accept help.

Another 12 step message, the serenity prayer

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference
 
pamelasmithwick said:
“We work on ourselves in order to help others, but also we help others in order to work on ourselves.” ~Pema Chodron
Very rarely do people open up to genuine help when they feel like someone is looking down on them or projecting onto them. None of us want to feel judged, misunderstood, or coerced into believing something when we’re not ready.
So what do we want? What is it that helps people create change when they’re struggling and resistant to help?
Click to expand...
If it isn't too obvious a thing to say, the best help is "What we need, when we need it"! :unsure:(y).
 
pamelasmithwick said:
So what do we want? What is it that helps people create change when they’re struggling and resistant to help?
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone wants to be looked down upon or shamed into changing their ways, that's definitely not the way to help someone you care about. I would just offer suggestions, maybe point out some of the positive things they may experience with recommended changes. They have to be ready themselves to open up to help and do what is needed to overcome their problem. Sometimes just having a sincere heart to heart conversation with them, will spark something that connects. I think that's all we can hope for, IMO.
 
When I was first married, my biggest issue with my husband was that he was a "fixer". If I started to tel him about a problem or an issue, he would step right in and take over, telling me exactly what to do and how to do it. I finally managed to get through to him that when I told him these things, I wasn't asking for an immediate solution. I just wanted him to listen, to acknowledge my feelings, to support me and help me work it out for myself. Often, my solutions turned out to be the same ones that he originally offered - but I needed to get there myself. Once he finally got it, we started getting along a lot better.
 
Years ago, when my eldest daughter was studying psychology, I was pretty sure she'd analyze me. So one day I said to her, 'just don't analyze me.' She looked at me like it never crossed her mind. Right. lol It was a bit hard to be around her during those years, wondering if she was. One thing I eventually found out from her was she had learned through her studies things I already knew--learned from real life experiences. :)
 
Autumn said:
When I was first married, my biggest issue with my husband was that he was a "fixer". If I started to tel him about a problem or an issue, he would step right in and take over, telling me exactly what to do and how to do it. I finally managed to get through to him that when I told him these things, I wasn't asking for an immediate solution. I just wanted him to listen, to acknowledge my feelings, to support me and help me work it out for myself. Often, my solutions turned out to be the same ones that he originally offered - but I needed to get there myself. Once he finally got it, we started getting along a lot better.
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I nearly married a guy like that. He was great in other ways, but the "fix it' response when I just needed a listening ear, a hug or sometimes a shoulder to cry on was frustrating. I'm glad your man finally figured it out!
 
I really hope this post does not upset people, it certainly isn't meant to.

I suppose it depends on the situation.
Is that person asking for help, does the person even realize that there is a problem?

Will they see your intervention as help or belittlement?
There is a fine line between what we perceive and what others perceive.

Sometimes even the best intentions are not welcome and in some cases, people do not want to be viewed as a charity case.
All you can do is listen to them, really listen without judgment then ask "Is there anything I can do?"

However, sometimes there is so much toxicity that it's better to move on.
 
tbeltrans said:
In the 12 Step programs, the saying is that when people "get sick and tired of being sick and tired" they will seek help and there is little others can do for them until they reach that point, also called "hitting bottom". I suppose a gentler way of saying it is that "when the student is ready, the teacher will come along". In this case, the "teacher" is the person who can help the one suffering.

Other than that, I don't have any answers so I am sure I will learn a lot from continuing to read this thread.

Tony
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That is one of my favorite quotes: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear". That is sooooo true. Until they are ready, there is not too much we can do.
 
ELjane said:
Years ago, when my eldest daughter was studying psychology, I was pretty sure she'd analyze me. So one day I said to her, 'just don't analyze me.' She looked at me like it never crossed her mind. Right. lol It was a bit hard to be around her during those years, wondering if she was. One thing I eventually found out from her was she had learned through her studies things I already knew--learned from real life experiences. :)
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The stories we tell ourselves. I agree the best lessons we learn are from life experiences.
 
pamelasmithwick said:
Very rarely do people open up to genuine help when they feel like someone is looking down on them or projecting onto them. None of us want to feel judged, misunderstood, or coerced into believing something when we’re not ready.

So what do we want? What is it that helps people create change when they’re struggling and resistant to help?
Click to expand...
Seems the key is that 'resistant to help' situation

Lotsa really good replies here

Living in the mountains for the last five years, I've seen folks that really needed help
Haven't offered my help
It's kinda do or die out there
Some folks figger it out before winter hits
Some don't
They get hungry
They get cold
They get in serious trouble
Tough lesson, but one learned

One ol' gal was totally snowed/iced in
She asked for help, rather too late, but we got her out
Had to use the front end loader since the snow was thick with ice
Took all day
When someone out here needs dug out, it's not their drive
It's more'n a mile or so

dig out.jpg

She paid us off in chicken eggs
Heh, took the eggs, thanked her

Once back at the cabin, we floated the eggs
They were all bad

Whatever
She 'paid us'
All felt good about it

I'll help

When needed

When asked

No advice

Hardly any words

Just help

That's the way I do it
Seems to work
No resistance
None at all
 

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