I think about church, religion and my parents

sailormann said:
So, many years later when my father was nearing the end of his life I decided to give him a pop quiz and see what he had learned about religion. When I asked if he thought the Bible was the infallible word of God, he said, Well, there's a lot of good stuff in there. When I ask if he thought there was life beyond death, he said that he thought he would return to a youthful body and live forever among the bays and rivers of Mobile Alabama fishing with his family and friends. He was a good man with strong attachments to family and friends, not caring too much for other things in life.
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My father died gracefully and peacefully at his home shortly after his 90th birthday. So maybe he wasn't a real deep thinker, a philosopher, or a theologian, but it seems he did know what matters most in life. And I miss him very much.
 

sailormann said:
My father died gracefully and peacefully at his home shortly after his 90th birthday. So maybe he wasn't a real deep thinker, a philosopher, or a theologian, but it seems he did know what matters most in life. And I miss him very much.
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aww, missing your dad is hard. "Be strong and of good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest"...Joshua 1:19

You are among friends here who share your pain. I agree with your dad's belief that he will receive a new body and live forever and will return to a perfect earth someday (Philippians 3:21).

It indicates we will receive new bodies in 100 places in the Bible:
What Does the Bible Say About New Bodies In Heaven?

The Bible also indicates in 100 places that we will return to a perfect earth:
What Does the Bible Say About New Heavens And New Earth?
 
VaughanJB said:
That said, as a moral baseline, Christianity is not too bad. It has it's problems - Catholics being against contraception, the rights of a woman to an abortion, and the unrealistic ideas around virginity. But not killing other people? Pretty good idea.
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Yes, for sure. There's also a point about not giving false witness statements about someone in legal situations, isn't there?

Isn't there also an admonition about envy? I see this point as not quite as relevant in modern society. Still, no, it often isn't a good sentiment. (I do think passing sentiments are not only difficult to banish, but also transitory in their nature.)
 

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JBR said:
Yes, for sure. There's also a point about not giving false witness statements about someone in legal situations, isn't there?

Isn't there also an admonition about envy? I see this point as not quite as relevant in modern society. Still, no, it often isn't a good sentiment. (I do think passing sentiments are not only difficult to banish, but also transitory in their nature.)
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I don't understand modern society, I really don't. As the days go by, I understand less. I just can't get in the head of a younger person. This may be due to my aging, along with a rejection of TV and radio for more than a decade. I'm just..... not understanding.
 
Capt Lightning said:
Does anyone believe that the Earth will last long enough to be perfect?
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Since you asked, I believe what it predicts in the Bible...that the Earth and Heaven will pass away and they will be replaced by the new heavens and the new earth. Everything will be new and God will dwell with mankind. Isaiah tells us there will be no more sin and no memory of things past nor will they come to mind. No more sorrow nor tragedy. The earth will be where only righteousness dwells.

• no more sea (Revelation 21:1)
• no more death (Revelation 21:4)
• no more mourning (Revelation 21:4)
• no more weeping (Revelation 21:4)
• no more pain (Revelation 21:4)
• no more curse (Revelation 22:3)
• no more night (Revelation 22:5)

The current heavens and earth have long been subject to God’s curse because of mankind’s sin. All creation “has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth” (Romans 8:22) as it awaits the fulfillment of God’s plan and “the children of God to be revealed” (verse 19).

The new heaven and new earth are also mentioned in Isaiah 65:17, Isaiah 66:22, and 2 Peter 3:13. Peter tells us that the new heaven and new earth will be “where righteousness dwells.” Isaiah says that “the former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.” Things will be completely new, and the old order of things, with the accompanying sorrow and tragedy, will be gone.

The new earth will be free from sin, evil, sickness, suffering, and death. It will be similar to our current earth, but without the curse of sin. It will be earth as God originally intended it to be. It will be Eden restored.
 
One more thing...this event comes after the tribulation, after the Lord’s second coming, after the millennial kingdom, after the final rebellion, after the final judgment of Satan, and after the great white throne judgment. The brief description of the new heavens and new earth is the last glimpse into eternity that the Bible gives.
 
Of course the world as we know it will end. If we don't destroy it, in millions of years, the sun will expand and engulf the Earth. New stars and planets are being created throughout the universe and I expect that new life is evolving on other worlds as we speak. This is nothing to do with a 'god', this is the way the universe works.

I think Sir David Attenburough put it nicely ....

Every society in the world has found it necessary to produce a story to account for the fact that humanity is on earth. The Australian Aboriginals think that the first humans were regurgitated by a great rainbow serpent in the sky, the people in Thailand think the beginning of the world was a huge pool of milk and a snake was pulled by demons, and the milk coagulated and that formed human beings and there was a time, two and a half to three thousand years ago, when people on the east end of the Mediterranean thought woman was made from the rib of the first man.

If somebody says to me I believe every word of the Bible is true, you can’t argue against that degree of irrationality…there is actually a way of looking at the natural world and seeing the evidence and it’s all there. And what’s more it’s the same evidence whether it’s in Australia or Northern Europe or wherever. It’s all the same—it all produces the same answer and you can all see the evidence—if you reject that then there’s nothing I can say.
 
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Because the supernatural eludes me as does
Lara said:
Since you asked, I believe what it predicts in the Bible...that the Earth and Heaven will pass away and they will be replaced by the new heavens and the new earth. Everything will be new and God will dwell with mankind. Isaiah tells us there will be no more sin and no memory of things past nor will they come to mind. No more sorrow nor tragedy. The earth will be where only righteousness dwells.

• no more sea (Revelation 21:1)
• no more death (Revelation 21:4)
• no more mourning (Revelation 21:4)
• no more weeping (Revelation 21:4)
• no more pain (Revelation 21:4)
• no more curse (Revelation 22:3)
• no more night (Revelation 22:5)

The current heavens and earth have long been subject to God’s curse because of mankind’s sin. All creation “has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth” (Romans 8:22) as it awaits the fulfillment of God’s plan and “the children of God to be revealed” (verse 19).

The new heaven and new earth are also mentioned in Isaiah 65:17, Isaiah 66:22, and 2 Peter 3:13. Peter tells us that the new heaven and new earth will be “where righteousness dwells.” Isaiah says that “the former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.” Things will be completely new, and the old order of things, with the accompanying sorrow and tragedy, will be gone.

The new earth will be free from sin, evil, sickness, suffering, and death. It will be similar to our current earth, but without the curse of sin. It will be earth as God originally intended it to be. It will be Eden restored.
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Why hasn’t there been more up to date information regarding biblical texts and prophecy? I don’t trust the Bible, nor any teachings derived from its pages based on a lack of current information that would give the Bible more credibility. As far as I can tell having faith in the Bible is no different than faith in folklores and the Brother’s Grimm.
 
There are a ton of commentaries, articles, books, videos, podcasts, and I've posted videos somewhere in SF on the prophecies as related to current events happening as we speak over in the middle east. Prophecy there is unfolding.

If you are talking about updating the Bible itself, it says right in the Bible NOT to add or subtract to it. God has a perfect reason for that. I don't know what it is but it's probably because he wants us to have faith in Him and He wants us to study the Bible to find answers. There are scriptures to back up my guess: Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18-19

Remember the Last Supper when doubting Thomas wanted to see proof on Jesus' hands that he had been nailed to the cross?
John 20:28-29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have NOT seen and yet have believed.”

He wants us to have faith in Him and the definition of faith is believing without seeing.
@Mr. Ed if you don't want to "trust the Bible nor the teachings in it" then that is your choice. Carry on alone if you choose.

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Disagree.

We live in a science, technology, telecom, Internet era where Christian religious scholarly information that used to be hidden or difficult to access is readily available by merely web searching on any computer. Enough to occupy any seeker for a lifetime. But one has to actually do the searching and read or watch whatever instead of being spoon fed like some toddler.

Simply just going to most denominational churches and listening to preachers is unlikely to ever be enlightening because ordinary folks they preach to are not motivated to do any more than that in their modern lives. Heck, the vast majority rarely if ever even read The Bible. As I just posted yesterday in my current Genesis thread, most Catholics still believe A&E were the first humans even though the church's official Bible has for a few decades now, not supported that primitive view.
 
I think modern Western societies, and probably some non-Western ones, struggle to keep or find an ethical basis. Like VaughanJB said in referencing Christianity, "not killing other people? Pretty good idea". Even liberal-minded parents, only two or three generations ago, used to take their kids to church & put them in Sunday school, to start them thinking along the lines of certain basic values & ethics.

Being at home with creation & the life process is a somewhat separate matter. I have to say I'm not churchy, myself.

Laws & courts are obviously required. But a lot of behavior can't really be touched by law. I don't believe a society can be healthy and at all comfortable if individuals can't bring themselves to be basically considerate of others. Intellectual-level discussions are helpful for a certain portion of people (especially if they're at least beginning to grow out of their teenage-rebellion phase). But likely most of us here in SF have questioned how deep, and far-reaching in society, that goes.

I think each society seems to have to come to grips with this.
 
Up to date scientists have no idea beyond theory and speculation, how the pyramids could possibly and emphatically have been constructed. Lack of current and modern information on the matter of construction lends no credibility to what my eyes have actually seen, hands have felt and where my feet have walked on the plains of Giza. So am I to surmise, the pyramids must simply be an illusion, manifest to enhance Egyptian tourism. Or perhaps the pyramids were assembled after 1900 with modern construction methods and I'm just being spoon fed BS concerning their history.

Science will never have all the answers. Some things are taken on faith ... or denied. Your choice. And then of course there are those pesky space aliens ;)
 
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Church is not the answer, but Jesus is. Salvation is a gift, not a product of religious works. "It is by Grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast!" - Ephesians 2:8-9.
 
Capt Lightning said:
Of course the world as we know it will end. If we don't destroy it, in millions of years, the sun will expand and engulf the Earth. New stars and planets are being created throughout the universe and I expect that new life is evolving on other worlds as we speak. This is nothing to do with a 'god', this is the way the universe works.

I think Sir David Attenburough put it nicely ....

Every society in the world has found it necessary to produce a story to account for the fact that humanity is on earth. The Australian Aboriginals think that the first humans were regurgitated by a great rainbow serpent in the sky, the people in Thailand think the beginning of the world was a huge pool of milk and a snake was pulled by demons, and the milk coagulated and that formed human beings and there was a time, two and a half to three thousand years ago, when people on the east end of the Mediterranean thought woman was made from the rib of the first man.

If somebody says to me I believe every word of the Bible is true, you can’t argue against that degree of irrationality…there is actually a way of looking at the natural world and seeing the evidence and it’s all there. And what’s more it’s the same evidence whether it’s in Australia or Northern Europe or wherever. It’s all the same—it all produces the same answer and you can all see the evidence—if you reject that then there’s nothing I can say.
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I gave you a like because I appreciate that you took the time to read my post and respond with your opinion, and only insulted Bible believers once..."irrational":giggle:. So you are saying you don't believe God has anything to do with the Universe. I knew that's how you felt. And that people all over the world have a different explanation for creation. I knew that too.....but

But you said you are a believer that "there is evidence in the natural world and it's all there"....evidence of what? What's all there? Evidence of a higher power? Evidence of an Intelligent Designer who is not God? Or evidence of a Big Bang. Or just "Poof" there's nature? Or the old cliche that the evidence "is what it is"?
 

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