I think what America lacks today is a sense of honor.

VintageBetter

Senior Member
I don't know how it is where you live, but where I live, the society in general has decided to embrace thievery by making it a misdemeanor for which the thieves are rarely caught.

The people who didn't want to survive in such a hard and harsh environment have decided to move away. The system is too massive to fix, so they give up and move. There is no shame in this. People fighting corruption alone and winning is only a fairy tale. It doesn't often happen in real life.

This thievery was rampant on Wall Street too in the Great Recession. That whole thing was a giant scam facilitated by our laws, or lack of laws. It shows up again in cryptocurrency. There have been some big winners in that arena, but the big losers have not been counted yet.

In our financial system, the press doesn't often write about the losers except to demean and denigrate them because the press is enamored with stocks and bonds and the whole thief system too. Never forget that the press often lifts up and promotes some of the worst scoundrels in our society before they are shown to be scoundrels, thieves, and even child molesters and murderers. The press gave so many of them hours and hours of free publicity because of its habit of chasing after shiny stories ONLY because they are shiny and because reporters, editors, producers are often followers of one another, like lemmings.

I think the America I hoped for in the 1970s, the post-Vietnam time when I hoped we'd turn from mayhem and war into construction of OUR economy, build up a nation that would be for 100% of us, and not just the top 10%, never came to fruition. Instead, the movers, shakers and financiers sold America to whoever wanted to buy. Now it's been parceled out in the name of "globalism".

The financiers told the politicians this would prevent war. Sell pieces of the land to the global community and then certain aggressors will not be aggressive, right? Because they wouldn't harm their own property, right? Ha! It was basically an appeasement strategy.

The other reason America has lost its honor is because in 'Murica, we attribute goodness and moral courage to wealth. We attribute good motives and character to the wealthy, we are TAUGHT to do this by our entertainment media, our general press, and our financial media, and we attribute evil to the poor just because they are poor.

Our whole system of data selling that runs Silicon Valley, and from which Wall Street benefits because these are publicly traded companies - it's all thievery. It's our data. They steal it, package it and sell it.

I don't know how to fix it. I know I cannot. I try to vote for leaders who can see this problem, but OMG, so many of them are blind to it. I mean intelligent people who have families they care about, but they don't care about the thievery that permeates American culture now. These same leaders will say, "We cannot go back to the old Welfare system with subsidized housing for all who need it because that system encouraged laziness!"

They say laziness is the great sin of America.

I disagree. I think the great moral failing of America these days is theft. The rich steal from the poor every day, in 100 million ways. But, that's OK in America because they are rich and therefore, "good".
 

This post paints a bleak picture of American society, claiming widespread theft and a glorification of wealth at the expense of the poor. While the post raises some valid concerns, a more nuanced perspective is necessary.

It's true there is a widening income gap in America, where a small percentage hold significant wealth while many struggle. The 2008 recession and issues with cryptocurrency highlight the need for stronger regulations and protections for consumers. There is potential media bias towards the wealthy and powerful.

The post paints a picture of rampant theft throughout society. While financial crimes and inequality are real, most theft is petty and prosecuted.
The post neglects advancements in social justice, minimum wage increases, and social safety nets that partially address the wealth gap.
The post proposes laziness as the alternative to theft, a false dichotomy. The majority of Americans work hard, and poverty has complex causes beyond laziness.

While the financial system may favor the wealthy, it doesn't mean all Americans condone theft or exploit the poor.
While advocating for social change, we can't ignore individual responsibility for success. Educational opportunities and hard work play a role.
The post offers no solutions except for criticizing leaders. We can work towards addressing inequality through policy, education, and promoting financial literacy.

America faces challenges regarding wealth distribution and economic fairness. However, this post's portrayal of a nation built on theft and a complete lack of honor simplifies a complex issue. By acknowledging progress, promoting individual responsibility alongside systemic reform, and working towards solutions, we can create a more equitable America without resorting to pessimism and despair.
 
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I don't think there ever was this past great era when there was no corruption, dishonesty, etc., and all lived in peace and harmony. So, when exactly was this heavenly period?

4,000 years ago, ancient Egyptians complained of corruption and tomb robbing. There's going to be a lot of "the place is going to hell" rhetoric, now that we're in an election year.
 
I can see valid points in both Paco Dennis's and VintageBetter's posts. Canada is a different nation, but some trends of recent decades have parallels here. The real-estate game has made for substantial hardship for lower-income & young people.

It is one area of difficulty. The real-life game of ownership and profit that's satirized by Monopoly is played out for real by individuals (and consortiums) who have the money to invest. Prices on apartments, condos, and a house on a lot, not to mention rental situations, have reached a crisis point. It's not healthy for society. Low-income housing development is on the rise, but it's lagged for many years.
 
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I don't think there ever was this past great era when there was no corruption, dishonesty, etc., and all lived in peace and harmony. So, when exactly was this heavenly period?

4,000 years ago, ancient Egyptians complained of corruption and tomb robbing. There's going to be a lot of "the place is going to hell" rhetoric, now that we're in an election year.
That's the truth. There has always been corruption, thievery, separation of classes, hatred, political rivalries and political division, homelessness, etc.

The difference now is the internet has expanded our world view and people are obsessed with the tragic and terrible, the more you search the more you find.

People are animals, we may not be fighting with teeth and claws but we started fighting at the beginning and will fight till the last of us.
 
I don't know how it is where you live, but where I live, the society in general has decided to embrace thievery by making it a misdemeanor for which the thieves are rarely caught.

The people who didn't want to survive in such a hard and harsh environment have decided to move away. The system is too massive to fix, so they give up and move. There is no shame in this. People fighting corruption alone and winning is only a fairy tale. It doesn't often happen in real life.

This thievery was rampant on Wall Street too in the Great Recession. That whole thing was a giant scam facilitated by our laws, or lack of laws. It shows up again in cryptocurrency. There have been some big winners in that arena, but the big losers have not been counted yet.

In our financial system, the press doesn't often write about the losers except to demean and denigrate them because the press is enamored with stocks and bonds and the whole thief system too. Never forget that the press often lifts up and promotes some of the worst scoundrels in our society before they are shown to be scoundrels, thieves, and even child molesters and murderers. The press gave so many of them hours and hours of free publicity because of its habit of chasing after shiny stories ONLY because they are shiny and because reporters, editors, producers are often followers of one another, like lemmings.

I think the America I hoped for in the 1970s, the post-Vietnam time when I hoped we'd turn from mayhem and war into construction of OUR economy, build up a nation that would be for 100% of us, and not just the top 10%, never came to fruition. Instead, the movers, shakers and financiers sold America to whoever wanted to buy. Now it's been parceled out in the name of "globalism".

The financiers told the politicians this would prevent war. Sell pieces of the land to the global community and then certain aggressors will not be aggressive, right? Because they wouldn't harm their own property, right? Ha! It was basically an appeasement strategy.

The other reason America has lost its honor is because in 'Murica, we attribute goodness and moral courage to wealth. We attribute good motives and character to the wealthy, we are TAUGHT to do this by our entertainment media, our general press, and our financial media, and we attribute evil to the poor just because they are poor.

Our whole system of data selling that runs Silicon Valley, and from which Wall Street benefits because these are publicly traded companies - it's all thievery. It's our data. They steal it, package it and sell it.

I don't know how to fix it. I know I cannot. I try to vote for leaders who can see this problem, but OMG, so many of them are blind to it. I mean intelligent people who have families they care about, but they don't care about the thievery that permeates American culture now. These same leaders will say, "We cannot go back to the old Welfare system with subsidized housing for all who need it because that system encouraged laziness!"

They say laziness is the great sin of America.

I disagree. I think the great moral failing of America these days is theft. The rich steal from the poor every day, in 100 million ways. But, that's OK in America because they are rich and therefore, "good".

Grift on high is but had been even higher. The increase in scoundrels reflects the increase of those with no over arching values which make them accountable even when no one is looking. Nowadays getting away with thievery is just looked at as a good day. Even being caught lying is felt to be entirely acceptable and when truly cornered violence is felt to be an honorable response.
 
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I don't know how it is where you live, but where I live, the society in general has decided to embrace thievery by making it a misdemeanor for which the thieves are rarely caught.

Not thievery, imo. Greed. Avarice. The biggest religion in the US is money - everyone is allied to it. Instead of discovering how much we need, the assumption is always MORE. It's greed at both a personal and Corporate level. Capitalism is a great system, but it needs checks and balances, regulating. Once you strip away regulation you have a free-for-all in which the winners win, and stomp over the losers.

There's also an absence of empathy. People who have less, or have made bad decisions and need a helping hand, are considered worthless and beneath contempt. We can't kill them, so we let them rot to death on our streets. But then, why should tax payers contribute to such things? We never made those bad decisions, so it's all their fault.

The trouble is, we set wheels in motion and never consider the long-term effects. I'll give you an example - women into work. I've no issue whatsoever with women having careers, good for them. But let's think about how it's played out. Back in ye olde days, the woman largely stayed at home, and the man worked. The house could run on a single wage. Then we had a societal change, and increasing numbers of women went into the work place to show their independence and undoubted talent, and to bring more luxuries along the way. All good.

Fast forward - and we're at a stage where both adults (Father and Mother) HAVE to work to make ends meet, and even then they sometimes can't. Zero-hour contracts, no fault firings and evictions, a move away from unions, and so on. None of this has worked in our favor in the end. People are paying an average of $730 a month for new car loans. For used cars it's $530 a month or so. Good grief.

Amazon and Google are laying people off as their sales and profits INCREASE. We had an "energy crisis" where bills soared, where we all paid more but again, profits went up. And we don't seem to ever point the finger at the right people. No-one on either side of the house is telling Google to invest billions in AI, to take money our of it's main operations to pay for it, thereby having to lay off workers. Hey, it's all about the free market - right!

Honestly, I think it's time to consider just what the dream actually is.

And no, I'm talking absolutes. And no, I may not b e referencing YOU.
 
Grift on high is but had been even higher. The increase in scoundrels reflects the increase of those with no over arching values which make them accountable even when no one is looking. Nowadays getting away with thievery is just looked at as a good day. Even when caught lying I’d felt to be entirely acceptable and when truly cornered violence is felt to be an honorable response.
I'd argue the point, but you're right. Some politicians are especially guilty of this, but half the country turns a blind eye to it.
 
All of what you wrote applies not only to the US. Just sayin'.

You are 100% correct, and I didn't intend to infer otherwise.

A fascinating thing..... back a few decades, people in the UK used to look at the US in both awe and confusion. The US was/is great, but it wasn't quite "english" in how it did things, you know? Honestly, in the 70's the US felt a bit like a huge Disneyland. :D

When I started traveling, and then living in both the US and UK, I noticed something that Brits were too blind to see - the UK follows the cultural trends of the US, it's just delayed by 5 to 10 years. For all the "British culture" and cups of tea (yum!) it simply soaks up what is going on in US society and gradually takes it on. We're seeing it now in our politics, for example.

Which is why our drug problem is nowhere near its peak. Which is why we allow employers to use zero-hour contracts. Which is why violent crime is on the rise. Why greed is becoming prominent.

Now, I can't speak for France, Scandinavia, and so on, but personally the line between the US society and UK society has never been thinner.
 
Grift on high is but had been even higher. The increase in scoundrels reflects the increase of those with no over arching values which make them accountable even when no one is looking. Nowadays getting away with thievery is just looked at as a good day. Even when caught lying I’d felt to be entirely acceptable and when truly cornered violence is felt to be an honorable response.
It boggles my mind to see our country have activities of leaders of our national honor commit overt crime, for all to see, but they do it with impunity and no accountability. It is systemic within our whole nation. Who ya gonna blame?
 
It boggles my mind to see our country have activities of leaders of our national honor commit overt crime, for all to see, but they do it with impunity and no accountability. It is systemic within our whole nation. Who ya gonna blame?

Well the open grifting is pretty recent in our politics at all levels, though it isn't equal for all parties. There is one that has gone rogue.
 
Not thievery, imo. Greed. Avarice. The biggest religion in the US is money - everyone is allied to it. Instead of discovering how much we need, the assumption is always MORE. It's greed at both a personal and Corporate level. Capitalism is a great system, but it needs checks and balances, regulating. Once you strip away regulation you have a free-for-all in which the winners win, and stomp over the losers.
No, capitalism needs people and purpose. You make a product or provide a service that fills a need, people will pay for it. If it sucks, they won't, and you're done.
There's also an absence of empathy. People who have less, or have made bad decisions and need a helping hand, are considered worthless and beneath contempt. We can't kill them, so we let them rot to death on our streets. But then, why should tax payers contribute to such things? We never made those bad decisions, so it's all their fault.
Your country's leaders are not being held responsible for their nefarious deeds and you're given a monthly check and an EBT card for not being responsible. This is not a recipe for success. Eventually you have more have-nots than haves and the gap between them grows ever wider.
The trouble is, we set wheels in motion and never consider the long-term effects.
Precisely.

Free skills training in a wide range of job fields, apprenticeship programs, and job placement assistance should be included in social services. They should be THE priority programs and they should target kids and young adults particularly. Schools need to get back to asking kids what they want to do for a living, and then help them get there, explain the path and their options; support, encourage, gear them up for a productive future. There's certainly nothing bad about a strong, well trained work force. Inspired workers have little interest in sitting around doing drugs all day.
 
Not thinking just of America, but looking more at the current International scene. Do you think some citizens (the supporters) admire & envy a leader or politician known to be untrammeled, selfish, and disdainful? Wishing they could be "successful" in the same manner?

Yea, there are several examples of very successful people around the world that are criminals and well respected. They range from all political affiliations, and gender. I could list a few, but that would seem prejudice, and if I list as many as I can find, we would need a new server for the Senior Forum. :LOL:
 
Hope is the scourge of America. Most every American feels it is possible for them to be rich. They won't be, but, while waiting, they protect the rich with their votes and their worship in order to protect the class they hope to be a part of one day. Living in a fool's dream; not protecting their own class but the class they hope they will be joining.
 
Hope is the scourge of America. Most every American feels it is possible for them to be rich. They won't be, but, while waiting, they protect the rich with their votes and their worship in order to protect the class they hope to be a part of one day. Living in a fool's dream; not protecting their own class but the class they hope they will be joining.
Well said.
 
Hope is the scourge of America. Most every American feels it is possible for them to be rich. They won't be, but, while waiting, they protect the rich with their votes and their worship in order to protect the class they hope to be a part of one day. Living in a fool's dream; not protecting their own class but the class they hope they will be joining.
So, America's best hope at this point is reality. That's so hard to find these days.
 
Hope is the scourge of America. Most every American feels it is possible for them to be rich. They won't be, but, while waiting, they protect the rich with their votes and their worship in order to protect the class they hope to be a part of one day. Living in a fool's dream; not protecting their own class but the class they hope they will be joining.
So true.
 


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