If you know god, then what?

[IrishEyes]

I don't think we will ever run out of amazing things to ponder. And I don't need a mystery to ponder either. Even though I understand plate tectonics and fault block mountains, I ponder over why that part of nature has such an effect on me. Others have told me that this makes me spiritual, but I don't see it that way. I just know that my knees get weak, and my heart seems like it's been given a hypodermic full of gratitude, and that experience has not subsided in intensity during my life.

The one thing I constantly think about is our conscience. I had believed it came from role modeling, lessons in cause and effect, empathy, you know the life around us. Then I was a teacher in a toddler class and I noticed how these bitty people before doing something they knew they shouldn't, most always looked to see if I was watching them before they did it. Now if they were angry, their emotions took charge and they didn't look they just hit, grabbed or whatever to get what they wanted.
By looking at me first told me they knew it was wrong but they needed either to see if they could get away with it or needed the lesson of getting caught to confirm if it was right or wrong. So I argue with myself whether we are born with that sense of right/wrong or is it really
taught to us. That I think about more then why/who/ where/how the universe came to be.
It won't change my life or those around me knowing which it is or how it came to be, but this is my go to my grave thing I think will always be.

 

[gruntlabor]

This is questionable, although I did think that belief in the supernatural could be a choice at one time. And that kept me searching for God until I was 52. Granted, it would require at least some convoluted leaps of reason, but I've been confronted by too many rational arguments that test that commonly held idea that belief is a choice.

I'm guessing that for some, beliefs are so ingrained and so real, that believers often suggest to skeptics that all they have to do is make a choice to believe. One countering argument would be to suggest to a believer that he choose not to believe, maybe just for a month. Even before I heard this argument, I one time asked a believer if it were possible for him to not believe, and he adamantly replied, "Absolutely not!" Although he replied too quickly to convince me that he had bothered to give the question any thought at all.

I don't think that beliefs are choices. Changing a belief requires a motivator powerful enough, whether rational or not, to convince us to believe otherwise.

I agree, JustDave. I can no more help what I believe than I can fly. For me, it is not a choice. I have not been given the gift of faith.

 

[rbtvgo]

See, I'm beginning to understand some of my own issues.

So much of being a believer seems to obfuscate logic and accountability. And I'm more of an empirical sort of dude.

Where did God come from? He's always been.
Does God answer prayers? He does, but it may not be in the way you imagine.
How are children sinners? They were born with original sin.

I mean, if I were looking to excuse a daydream, this would be the type of responses I'd give. Nothing can be measured, nothing can be shown, and something may happen, or not. We start with a debt (of some kind), no matter our circumstance.

It's all so nebulous. Which is where Blind Faith comes in. However, blind faith, as is often stated, is what you need when you lack evidence. Blind Faith suggests you should believe, even though there is no worldly (scientific) reason to do so.

This is the barrier I have. My brain doesn't work that way. I can't accept something beyond the universe we live in, beyond the processes and interactions we know (which is not to say we know everything about everything, because the universe is a VERY big place). I cannot accept that a new born, right from the womb, has sin.

We also know that psychological humans can find a great inner strength. We can fight through impossible odds. Some of the results of which appear to be attributed to a God.

Let alone all the different Gods. I saw a figure of 18,000 Gods or animals have, at one time or another, been worshiped by man. And Christianity spread, partly, by way of imperialism. And that the belief one has is connected to where you happen to be born (if you're born in India, you're more likely to be Hindu).

But much is obscured by the use religion is put. Can you really be a Christian that advocates for the death of the people of other nations (with other beliefs?)

Or how forgiveness is abused to make heinous acts legitimate.

I guess what I'm saying here is - belief isn't simply about a belief in a God, the question is far more complex.

I re read your message a few times. Valid points.....all. There is so much you say that requires me to think about my own beliefs. I am going to work off your message and try to provide some thoughts that cause me to refute some things that you say. Blind faith has produced any number of results in this world that define explanation. People who defy death and live on. Those who face impossible odds and yet succeed.
Minor things like the "miracle on Ice" when the us team beat the Russians. No explanation other than faith. Blind Faith yes, but much more than strong desires by individual players. I guess what I am saying is that faith without interaction can only go on so long. Then, one tires and feels the futility of no confirmation. My problem with your words is that I, have an interaction with God. Which changes everything. No, not in words. God does not talk to me in words.
He response to me in my prayers. I will question something and he will respond with a question to me that requires me to think and look into his written word. I have never yet found his response to my questions, once searched out, to be incorrect. Do I want to believe, with all my heart, what I hear.................yes! but I doubt so I look up the passages. "No, this is wrong, this isn't God talking". This is my own mind.
Then I search the Bible, do the research and realize that he is correct. My years on this earth have led me to the conclusion that God has my back. I can't explain the horrors that go on everyday in this world. I can't offer any explanation. I search myself.
Yet, I know that he knows, he allows what he does because he is an all knowing God and that I am his creation. He will reveal to me what he wants but he desires me to trust him totally. He is God. Like the universe, he is beyond understanding. Blind Faith??? Like I said he knows me and interacts. so much more to say but this is enough for now.