Is Green Energy and Sustainability a Hoax?

A great example of how solar and other renewable energy detractors will spew statistics they know are manipulated for their agenda. Sadly, in this Internet era, it is wise to be suspicious of all manner of news, especially political.
That is a real problem, and the Michael Moore film is certainly guilty of some of that.

It seems to me the best way to see how real solar, or any other energy source, is would be to let the market sort it out. If solar can indeed compete there should be no need for government subsidies and involvement. Except perhaps on the regulatory side.
study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)
NREL is part of the DOE lab system, and I do have some familiarity with them. DOE labs are government labs supported primarily by government money. The system dates back to the Manhattan program that developed atomic weapons.

DOE labs do have some very good people, and they have done some good work. However they are first and foremost a government bureaucracy who's primary goal is always getting more money. So they strive to continue researching issues, sometimes long past the reasonable end. Just like all other information sources you have to recognize the bias.
 

DOE labs do have some very good people, and they have done some good work. However they are first and foremost a government bureaucracy who's primary goal is always getting more money. So they strive to continue researching issues, sometimes long past the reasonable end. Just like all other information sources you have to recognize the bias.
I see research for no real results but to justify continued research...... is often to keep money flowing.....
Big money in "research" these days.
 
Convenience & one-time use are the bane in our society. Industry bends over backwards to this end and I see no end in sight.

We're definitely part of a consumers' house of cards. I think....to a lot of people that hold the most power in this world regardless of their ideological shellacking...that our consumption is now the primary value of humans.
 
Solar farms in eastern Wyoming have severely impacted the habitat of the western horned rabbit, better known as the jackalope. These majestic animals who once freely roamed the plains are all but extinct due to loss of habitat to solar and wind farms.
Sad indeed! To think the jackalope once roamed by the thousands from horizon to horizon.

... or was that buffalo?
 
Wastelands are a fragile environment. Solar farms in eastern Wyoming have severely impacted the habitat of the western horned rabbit, better known as the jackalope. These majestic animals who once freely roamed the plains are all but extinct due to loss of habitat to solar and wind farms. I hope organizations such as the Sierra Club will be able to force legislation to provide federal reserves to save an integral part of US heritage.
I saw a documentary on a huge solar farm think it is at California/ Arizona border and the heat off all the panels etc instantly incinerate any bird that flies by.
 
I often see energy companies claiming to supply 100% 'Green' energy. This is strange, because we're all supplied from the same grid and the electricity it supplies comes from a whole range of sources. What they really mean is that they pay a 'green' producer for X amount of electricity, and then charge their customers according for how much power they use - no matter who produced it. I suppose it gives people a 'warm' feeling to think they're being environmentally friendly.
 
Solar power is great, in regions where sunshine is abundant. However, individual homes going "off the grid" can cost $20K, and about the time they break even, the panels and batteries need to be replaced....thus, starting all over.

Methane from cows and pigs creates almost as much greenhouse gas as fossil fuels....should we all become vegetarians?

The addition of Ethanol to gasoline is a Scam, IMO. The Ethanol reduces fuel mileage, resulting in little or no overall reduction in emissions. The Only ones benefitting from Ethanol production are the farmers...growing huge crops of corn. However, the energy consumed in corn production almost negates any benefits.

The ONLY "theory" I've heard of that makes Long Term Sense might be a transition to Hydrogen power. Solar power could generate the electricity needed to break water down to its hydrogen/oxygen components, which when burned would return the exhaust to water. However creating the infrastructure to support hydrogen fuel, and transitioning vehicles to such a fuel would take decades, and probably cost trillions of dollars.

I doubt that any real progress will be made in the next few decades....meanwhile, the planet will continue to warm, oceans will continue to rise, and we will All feel the results.
With hydrogen fuel, wouldn't putting all that water vapor, a greenhouse gas, into the atmosphere contribute to anthropogenic climate change? Plus storing hydrogen might be dangerous. If someone was to get into a serious car crash with a tank of hydrogen on board, that could create quite an explosion.
 
With hydrogen fuel, wouldn't putting all that water vapor, a greenhouse gas, into the atmosphere contribute to anthropogenic climate change? Plus storing hydrogen might be dangerous. If someone was to get into a serious car crash with a tank of hydrogen on board, that could create quite an explosion.
Any water vapor coming from such an exhaust would likely be like a bit of steam or fog. It might raise the humidity, and cause more frequent rains....which would be a good thing in the Western US., but it would certainly be far less damaging to the environment than any other fuel sources.

Yes, it might be dangerous in a major collision....depending upon how the fuel tank was built and located. But then, even gas and diesel can cause major fires/explosions in a wreck.

At any rate, current technology and plans to replace fossil fuels are mostly "speculation", and would require massive infrastructure investments, etc., to become reality....and decades to fully accomplish.

The current "plans" to transition to EV's are quite "optimistic", IMO. EV's would be practical if/when they have a range of 250+ miles, and can be recharged in just a few minutes. And, we would need half a million charging stations, to avoid dozens of vehicles waiting in line to recharge. Then, we would need a lot more electric generating resources....wind, solar, nuclear, etc., to provide the increased electrical demand.

Then, too, most EV's seem to be powered from Lithium batteries....most of which seems to be supplied by China....another thing that would put us as the mercy of that regime....unless there is some huge resource of that element in the U.S. that is Not being mined. And, apparently Lithium batteries have their own "risk" of overheating and burning...everything from Tesla's to laptop PC's.

Bottom line, IMO...EV's are great, but we are a LONG way from such a transition.
 
The current "plans" to transition to EV's are quite "optimistic", IMO. EV's would be practical if/when they have a range of 250+ miles, and can be recharged in just a few minutes. And, we would need half a million charging stations, to avoid dozens of vehicles waiting in line to recharge. Then, we would need a lot more electric generating resources....wind, solar, nuclear, etc., to provide the increased electrical demand.
One possible solution for the charging time problem is, rather than wait for your battery to be charged, it would simply be swapped out with one that's fully charged. An attendant might be needed to swap out the battery since they're heavy, although it definitely could be automated. Theoretically, it could be like these Blue Rhino propane tank exchanges, only instead of exchanging an empty tank, you'd exchange your battery.
 
One possible solution for the charging time problem is, rather than wait for your battery to be charged, it would simply be swapped out with one that's fully charged. An attendant might be needed to swap out the battery since they're heavy, although it definitely could be automated. Theoretically, it could be like these Blue Rhino propane tank exchanges, only instead of exchanging an empty tank, you'd exchange your battery.

Yes swapping the batteries would be an option....IF all cars used the same battery, and there wasn't a mile long line of cars waiting to be swapped. Plus, the labor/recycling charges involved with a "swap" would probably drive the cost of driving sky high.

The government has issued a mandate that vehicles sold after 2025 need to get 40 mpg, That should pretty much eliminate most models being sold today....IF they can make that the rule. That will turn auto production upside down....no more large SUV's and pickups, etc.???

The Only vehicles that maeke sense, anymore, with these upcoming rules, might by a small hybrid car/SUV...where a small gas engine can continue to recharge the battery while driving. However, these vehicles carry a pretty hefty price, IF you can find one on the dealers lots. It's almost going to be that many people may need to take out a 2nd mortgage to be able to afford a new car.
 
The government has issued a mandate that vehicles sold after 2025 need to get 40 mpg, That should pretty much eliminate most models being sold today....IF they can make that the rule. That will turn auto production upside down....no more large SUV's and pickups, etc.???
No, not all vehicles must get 40 mpg; new vehicles, overall, must average 40 mpg. So for every gas guzzler that comes off the assembly line, manufacturers need to produce an energy efficient vehicle so the average is 40 mpg. That's doable.

Once the price of batteries comes down a little further, an EV should cost less than it's internal combustion engine counterpart since there are a hell of a lot fewer parts in an EV. But, like the CD when it replaced vinyl, the price was higher even though it cost less to manufacture. Corporations will gouge us simply because it's new technology.
 
I'm convinced we have a serious environmental problem but I'm also convinced the government lacks the willingness and motivation to make a real difference.
You know that is really us, we elect the government's leaders. We get what we deserve.
One possible solution for the charging time problem is, rather than wait for your battery to be charged, it would simply be swapped out with one that's fully charged.
Unless battery/recharge technology changes drastically I think that is the only way EVs will ever go mainstream. Is anyone working on it?
 
Wastelands are a fragile environment. Solar farms in eastern Wyoming have severely impacted the habitat of the western horned rabbit, better known as the jackalope. These majestic animals who once freely roamed the plains are all but extinct due to loss of habitat to solar and wind farms. I hope organizations such as the Sierra Club will be able to force legislation to provide federal reserves to save an integral part of US heritage.

Jackbird, you cannot fool and old fool, like myself! Those Jackalopes are caused by those A-bombs they lit off back in the late 40's and early 50's...

I used to see a lot of 'stuffed Jackalopes' in western stores up in the mountains of Colorado. The 'old timers' told me all about them and how they migrated up into the mountains....that's why they all died, it is to darn cold in the high mountains for them to survive.

Yep, I am not fooled.....at all!
 
The more you research on global warming, the more you begin to question if it this is a lie. I believe the data has been manipulated, multiple times. Peer review, nothing yet that I accept as a true review of an original experiment.

When I research the primary energy sources considered as possible replacements for current energy sources, I can find nothing that is not currently problematic, as noted in many posts above. Only through advances in technology will any of these prove to be viable. But as long our government subsidizes these energy sources (Solar, Wind, etc.), you can bet that few new dramatic advances will be developed. That is not how a Free Market works, it works when government stays out of it...think about it!
 
Unless battery/recharge technology changes drastically I think that is the only way EVs will ever go mainstream. Is anyone working on it?

OmGosh, yes, they are and I'd love to have a crystal ball to predict who will get there first. Talk about earning millions on a dollar invested...

Currently, lithium battery tech isn't what I'd call truly sustainable due to the 10ish year lifespan and the need for rare earth minerals.
 
No, not all vehicles must get 40 mpg; new vehicles, overall, must average 40 mpg. So for every gas guzzler that comes off the assembly line, manufacturers need to produce an energy efficient vehicle so the average is 40 mpg. That's doable.

Once the price of batteries comes down a little further, an EV should cost less than it's internal combustion engine counterpart since there are a hell of a lot fewer parts in an EV. But, like the CD when it replaced vinyl, the price was higher even though it cost less to manufacture. Corporations will gouge us simply because it's new technology.

In order to achieve a 40MPG average in just a few years, the automakers would have to turn out millions of downsized Mini-Coopers...and convince customers to buy those little things.

Yes, EV's should be cheaper to produce, due to far fewer parts, but the hassle of recharging will remain an issue unless a means can be found to do so quickly.

Even if a major share of the vehicles were EV, we still have the issue with electrical generating capacity to charge millions of vehicles daily. Some parts of the country have so little excess generating capacity that any "glitch" in the system quickly puts many households into Blackout. The Texas outages, last Winter, and the ongoing scattered outages in California clearly show that there is little or no "backup".

At present, I have NO desire to change vehicles, but if I did, I would ONLY consider a hybrid. I often look at some dealer web sites, and those vehicles sell out faster than houses in todays real estate market....and usually for a premium price well above "sticker".
 
Interesting thread, so I started looking up battery replacement cost for these green vehicles. Here's what I found for just a few models so far...

The average cost for a Honda Insight hybrid high voltage battery replacement is between $3,030 and $3,101. Labor costs are estimated between $270 and $341

Replacing a Toyota Prius battery will usually cost between $2200 and $4100. Depending on labor costs, the price may be even higher.

The current list price of a Chevy Bolt EV HV battery pack is $15,734.29 :eek:

16 kWh Chevy Volt batteries cost ~$4,000 to replace,

Nissan Leaf The 30 kWh pack prices range from $3,500 to $4,500, while 40 kWh packs vary from $6,500 to $7,500. However,Getting a 62 kWh battery pack to increase driving distance demands $8,500 up to $9,500.
If could be worse... if you're in the virgin Islands, and need a battery pack replacement, Nissan will charge
you $35,636.36 for a new one. :eek::eek:

So, for me..................

nope.jpg
 
I'm replacing my internal combustion engine powered lawnmower with one powered with an electric motor. Just a few years ago, that would have been prohibitively expensive. Electric lawnmowers are now fairly reasonably priced due to advances in battery technology and competition. Many tool manufacturers are now manufacturing lawn mowers along with traditional lawn equipment manufacturers.

As more companies enter the automobile market and technology continues to advance, prices will continue to come down. Many are already available for under $40k and there are a few for under $30k, so they're not all that much more than a gas powered vehicle.

One of the things I'm looking forward to with an electric lawnmower is, there's no oil to change and no gas needed (ok, that's two things). And they're quiet! I'll be able to listen to audiobooks while mowing the lawn!
 
Seems to me that we could spend more time and money perfecting the internal combustion engine. No matter what you call it, oil is actually the most renewable source on the planet. If anyone still thinks that today's oil came from dead and decaying dinosaurs, then
My argument is all things decaying in the earth create oil, therefore, oil is always going to be renewable.
I would think that given the proper incentive, automobile engines could be improved not only mileage wise, but, emission wise also.
 
Seems to me that we could spend more time and money perfecting the internal combustion engine.
I can see some logic to that. So long as we burn hydrocarbons the internal combustion engine will be with us. And burning them directly to create energy is probably more efficient that burning them in power plants and converting to electric. It would be interesting to see an honest analysis of that.

Until we are able to replace hydrocarbons, and I don't see that happening anytime soon, we need to do the best with what we have.
oil is always going to be renewable.
True, but I believe we are burning it a lot faster than it's being "renewed".

The thing that will keep us going is that we have only scratched the surface of available hydrocarbons. So far our technology for figuring out how to get more and more out of the earth has kept pace with demand. I suspect that will continue, at least until a competitive alternative arises.
 
I would think that given the proper incentive, automobile engines could be improved not only mileage wise, but, emission wise also.

I tend to agree. Engines are much more efficient than they were 20 or 30 years ago, and some of the small turbo charged engines today give excellent mileage without sacrificing much power.

We certainly need to transition away from fossil fuels, but so much of what we are seeing today is little more than "knee jerk" attempts without considering long term implications, IMO.

EV's are certainly more environmentally friendly, but without the infrastructure to support them, and batteries that cost thousands of dollars to replace, they could easily cost the consumers more than they are worth.
 
Seems to me that we could spend more time and money perfecting the internal combustion engine. No matter what you call it, oil is actually the most renewable source on the planet. If anyone still thinks that today's oil came from dead and decaying dinosaurs, then
My argument is all things decaying in the earth create oil, therefore, oil is always going to be renewable.
I would think that given the proper incentive, automobile engines could be improved not only mileage wise, but, emission wise also.
I think it should be one of many options.

IMO the government shouldn't be picking the winners and losers.

The government should be setting goals and encouraging innovation that allows manufacturers to come up with cost-effective solutions.

I think this could be a serious option for short commutes.

Maybe a school bus? :unsure:

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There is another major problem with wind power that seems to get lost in the shuffle. (Green? my uncle's butt). Seems that are just getting tossed in a landfill... In the U.S., they go to the handful of landfills that accept them, in Lake Mills, Iowa; Sioux Falls, South Dakota; and Casper, where they will be interred in stacks that reach 30 feet under. “The wind turbine blade will be there, ultimately, forever,” said Bob Cappadona, chief operating officer for the North American unit of Paris-based Veolia Environnement SA, which is searching for better ways to deal with the massive waste. “Most landfills are considered a dry tomb.”
More here;
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/...ling-up-in-landfills?utm_source=pocket-newtab
 


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