It Must Be Said

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Lewkat said:
I am a middle of the road conservative and was an elected official for about 12 years from my state. Sensibly, we should be able to look at all political platforms and assess them respecting basically what they are really about. Unfortunately, most people these days tend to either misrepresent what they have read, or been told and pass that along. This can inflame others, and some nasty arguments and fights are abounding as a result.
Now, not everyone studies Political Science nor diplomacy in college, but when it comes to stirring up deep emotions when someone disagrees with your opinion, simply walk away from it.
I try to stay away from this subject along with religion, etc. Live and let live, I respect your right to conduct your life in pursuit of liberty and happiness, as well as freedom of speech.

Please try not to offend others, it isn't nice.
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'' was an elected official for about 12 years from my state.''

I ran for HOA president here 4 years ago and masses showed up to vote AGAINST me even a women in her mid 80s on oxygen attempted to remove her portable oxygen while cursing at me and throw it at me but her daughter stopped her .

Now I could easily show up to an election dressed as Caesar and crown myself Emperor of all Emperors , lol as those who hated me even stop and chat , we have laughs , people invite me over and that includes her when her daughter is driving her they stop if on on my front yard gardening .

I am even invited in lots of emails now to meetings , Funny how life works as no longer interested .
 
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Axel Slingerland said:
From the time I was old enough to speak in a moderately coherent fashion, if I had something to say, I said it. If it got me into trouble, I didn't mind. I said my piece and if what I had to say offended anyone, I would apologize for it. But I still said my piece. Now I have something to say so here goes.

Some time shortly after I got here, I was Moderated and had a post deleted because I said the name of an unelected person who is acting like a politician. A few days later, I said something that was also deemed political, and I was Moderated again. Then I saw a thread about magazine covers. So I posted a cover of a Time magazine and because it had a painting of Trump on it, I was banned for a few days. I understand the reasoning behind the no politics rule, but I felt that was a bit of an over reaction.

But this isn't my forum, so I let it go. And then as time went by, I realized that even though what I had on my mind would probably offend Matrix. If it does, I apologize. But I believe it needs to be said.

I have said a thousand times over the years that I was a forum administrator, depending on where you are in the world, you may have a right to free speech, but the owner of a privately owned and operated forum is not required to provide you with a soapbox for you to exercise that right. I have no problem with anyone's forum rules as long as they make sense. But if they don't make sense, I will always say so. And this no politics rule does not make sense. I could see a rule about not having Political arguments, as such a discussion would be bound to have various rule violations. Hate speech, personal attacks, etc. But a complete ban of anything remotely political? That's a bit much.

Looking through the list of the forums here, at least 1/3 of them have subjects that are based on politics and can easily lead into political discussions because of their very nature.

For example, it does not make sense to me to have a forum topic of Current News & Hot Topics, in a time when politics dominates both. With a strict No Politics rule, technically people can't talk about Social Security or Medicare, two topics very important to Seniors, because that would be against the forum rules as the policies of Social Security and Medicare are governed by Congress, thus are political. No discussion about taxes, that's also political. You also couldn't talk about the legalities of being Homeless because that is Political. You couldn't talk about the housing shortage, because that too, is political. I could go on, but I'm already old...

So why are there forums for politically based programs such as Social Security or Medicare if you have a no politics rule? God knows that every election cycle, disabled people and Seniors worry about whether they will lose their Social Security and Medicare benefits. I know I do. My medical bills for a normal year as as high as $60,000 to $80,000. My three month stay in three different hospitals in 2023 cost over $400,000, which Medicare paid for all of it except 20% on the first procedure. I would probably have a heart attack if I got a bill for $400,000.

My suggestion is instead of a complete blanket ban on all things political, in addition to the standard rules on such things as hate speech, personal attacks, etc., you just add "No Arguments of Any kind Allowed, Period" to those standard rules. After all, the following covers so much that the rest of the standard XenForo rules are essentially just saying the same thing.

"Any problem posts/threads will be removed, edited or locked, and the user's account may be terminated without notice."

As a forum Administrator, I always said that I would treat everyone fairly, no favoritism, no bending the rules, and all rules applied equally to everyone, including all of the people I chose as Moderators. I did treat everyone fairly, all across the board, and I let people speak their piece, even if I disagreed with what they said. I never agreed with a policy of "What the Administrator says is final." That is not diplomatic or fair to anyone. So my solution was to take a vote on anything someone wanted if I disagreed with it, and whatever the outcome, I agreed to it.

I would create a poll, with a two week duration, and post a notice about it. Then see how it turned out.

However, as I said before, this isn't my forum. I can't make such a decision. But if this no politics rule stands as it is, I won't come here as much as I did before, if at all. I like this community and other than the no politics rule and the 130 word maximum for paragraphs (which is too small), I like it here. But I don't like it so much as to forget about my principles.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to talk to me, send me a PM. Assuming the notification thing works as advertised, I'll reply in kind. Always...

Matrix, if this offends you I am truly sorry. But there's a lot of things I'll do and a lot more that I won't. I hope you understand. If you don't, that's ok. Just ban me and get it over with. No hard feelings...

Ax
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Never take anything personal because it is not so stay enjoy the forum and chat about other things .
 
Axel Slingerland said:
From the time I was old enough to speak in a moderately coherent fashion, if I had something to say, I said it. If it got me into trouble, I didn't mind. I said my piece and if what I had to say offended anyone, I would apologize for it. But I still said my piece. Now I have something to say so here goes.

Some time shortly after I got here, I was Moderated and had a post deleted because I said the name of an unelected person who is acting like a politician. A few days later, I said something that was also deemed political, and I was Moderated again. Then I saw a thread about magazine covers. So I posted a cover of a Time magazine and because it had a painting of Trump on it, I was banned for a few days. I understand the reasoning behind the no politics rule, but I felt that was a bit of an over reaction.

But this isn't my forum, so I let it go. And then as time went by, I realized that even though what I had on my mind would probably offend Matrix. If it does, I apologize. But I believe it needs to be said.

I have said a thousand times over the years that I was a forum administrator, depending on where you are in the world, you may have a right to free speech, but the owner of a privately owned and operated forum is not required to provide you with a soapbox for you to exercise that right. I have no problem with anyone's forum rules as long as they make sense. But if they don't make sense, I will always say so. And this no politics rule does not make sense. I could see a rule about not having Political arguments, as such a discussion would be bound to have various rule violations. Hate speech, personal attacks, etc. But a complete ban of anything remotely political? That's a bit much.

Looking through the list of the forums here, at least 1/3 of them have subjects that are based on politics and can easily lead into political discussions because of their very nature.

For example, it does not make sense to me to have a forum topic of Current News & Hot Topics, in a time when politics dominates both. With a strict No Politics rule, technically people can't talk about Social Security or Medicare, two topics very important to Seniors, because that would be against the forum rules as the policies of Social Security and Medicare are governed by Congress, thus are political. No discussion about taxes, that's also political. You also couldn't talk about the legalities of being Homeless because that is Political. You couldn't talk about the housing shortage, because that too, is political. I could go on, but I'm already old...

So why are there forums for politically based programs such as Social Security or Medicare if you have a no politics rule? God knows that every election cycle, disabled people and Seniors worry about whether they will lose their Social Security and Medicare benefits. I know I do. My medical bills for a normal year as as high as $60,000 to $80,000. My three month stay in three different hospitals in 2023 cost over $400,000, which Medicare paid for all of it except 20% on the first procedure. I would probably have a heart attack if I got a bill for $400,000.

My suggestion is instead of a complete blanket ban on all things political, in addition to the standard rules on such things as hate speech, personal attacks, etc., you just add "No Arguments of Any kind Allowed, Period" to those standard rules. After all, the following covers so much that the rest of the standard XenForo rules are essentially just saying the same thing.

"Any problem posts/threads will be removed, edited or locked, and the user's account may be terminated without notice."

As a forum Administrator, I always said that I would treat everyone fairly, no favoritism, no bending the rules, and all rules applied equally to everyone, including all of the people I chose as Moderators. I did treat everyone fairly, all across the board, and I let people speak their piece, even if I disagreed with what they said. I never agreed with a policy of "What the Administrator says is final." That is not diplomatic or fair to anyone. So my solution was to take a vote on anything someone wanted if I disagreed with it, and whatever the outcome, I agreed to it.

I would create a poll, with a two week duration, and post a notice about it. Then see how it turned out.

However, as I said before, this isn't my forum. I can't make such a decision. But if this no politics rule stands as it is, I won't come here as much as I did before, if at all. I like this community and other than the no politics rule and the 130 word maximum for paragraphs (which is too small), I like it here. But I don't like it so much as to forget about my principles.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to talk to me, send me a PM. Assuming the notification thing works as advertised, I'll reply in kind. Always...

Matrix, if this offends you I am truly sorry. But there's a lot of things I'll do and a lot more that I won't. I hope you understand. If you don't, that's ok. Just ban me and get it over with. No hard feelings...

Ax
Click to expand...
Let me say first, I am 90 years of age.

One reason - if not the main reason, for the profuseness of the hateful public discourse today is the senseless discard of a simple rule people my age grew up with: Do not discuss politics or religion.

Never in my early years did such unbridled hate and defamation exist on such a nationwide scale. Liberal and conservative "geniuses" in the communications and political arenas make millions per year by continually exacerbating this problem for their own profit.

What is happening to our modern world is very simple. This lesson is pervasive throughout history: Divide and Conquer.

The purveyors of this destructive method do not realize that history shows that they, too, will be destroyed by their greed for power.
 
I too sometimes get frustrated by the no politics rule, esp. as politics is NOT, IMO, just partisan; it's at the heart of every topic any of us can name. But I have seen on other online forums how it can turn the place into a festival of smarmy insults, so I accept it more or less. It makes things a little more safe.
 
Marcy Sheiner said:
I too sometimes get frustrated by the no politics rule, esp. as politics is NOT, IMO, just partisan; it's at the heart of every topic any of us can name. But I have seen on other online forums how it can turn the place into a festival of smarmy insults, so I accept it more or less. It makes things a little more safe.
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The main reason I am now trying forums , after many years on the Usenet groups, is because I have seen Usenet group after group destroyed by "open" discussion.

If someone constantly needs to display their core beliefs, and unendingly and angrily argue for their protection, that is not "discussion". That is a sicko who is constantly insecure in his/her own so-called core beliefs. and needs to destroy the psychological security of another in theirs.
 
NotCompSavy said:
'' was an elected official for about 12 years from my state.''

I ran for HOA president here 4 years ago and masses showed up to vote AGAINST me even a women in her mid 80s on oxygen attempted to remove her portable oxygen while cursing at me and throw it at me but her daughter stopped her .

Now I could easily show up to an election dressed as Caesar and crown myself Emperor of all Emperors , lol as those who hated me even stop and chat , we have laughs , people invite me over and that includes her when her daughter is driving her they stop if on on my front yard gardening .

I am even invited in lots of emails now to meetings , Funny how life works as no longer interested .
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I would not attempt to comment on the things I heard at some HOA meetings. It was worse than family court in many instances. Glad those folks have turned out to put grudges behind them and befriend you now. Good show.
 
Pepper said:
What office did you hold, @Lewkat?
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County Committee Woman, Pepper. I'd cover all the towns in my county (Morris), talk to state and federal legislators and compare with my little town just what they were getting, and perhaps glean ideas for my constituents to ponder. I talked to them all, regardless of political party. Wanted the best and when people realize you aren't just attempting to be only a politician, it is amazing how co-operative they are and helpful. It was a valuable learning experience that I never got out of a lecture hall or class room. But the travel wore me out and I was raising a son.
 
My recent experience. I posted a thread that was not intended to be political (not blaming any particular national leaders), but nonetheless it was deleted. So I gave it some thought, and posted another one about the Doomsday Clock. I speculated on the threats posed by nuclear weapons, climate change, and the potential misuse of biological science and a variety of emerging technologies. No problem with the threat being allowed.

My point is you can get your point across without getting into the political arena.
 
UpstateGal said:
Also, all the major news outlets online, New York Post, MSN, CNN, Fox News, BBC, DailyMail, etc. have comment sections at the end of their political articles. You can always go there to express your political views if you need to mix it up with strangers online.
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Plus, there are forums online dedicated to politics, that will satisfy anyone's need to express their political opinions or concerns.

If any of us here wander into the danger zone, our posts/threads will be moderated, removed, locked, etc. Some of us have experienced this, and accept it.
 
SeaBreeze said:
If any of us here wander into the danger zone, our posts/threads will be moderated, removed, locked, etc. Some of us have experienced this, and accept it.
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I agree.

I have to admit that it does bother me when members take it upon themselves to be the whistle blowers and moderators instead of walking away and letting Matrix decide when something has crossed the line.
 
HermitHogan said:
Yep, I've never seen a post here that I felt needed to be "reported." I've put several people on "ignore" because they were annoying, lying, or being a-holes, but none of them deserved to be banned, which is what happens when you report someone for posting political content.

I've been temporarily banned twice. Yesterday, I posted a joke about SpaceX and fully expected to see a "you've been banned" notice when I checked in today. Obviously, that didn't happen, but are SpaceX, Tesla, and X (Twitter) now off limits, considering the role their owner has in our current government?
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I LUV banning.

I'm completely fed up with the Internet - and the country in general - being deluged with the personal anger and hatred spewed by those who simply cannot open their mouths without anger gushing out.

they should take their discomfort with societal leanings to the school PTA, the labor union meetings, the local political meetings, and so forth. If one cannot converse sociably and gregariously on many 'normal' topics of discussion within a group of people looking only for mutual agreement of rather inconsequential interests, then that person has a problem with emotional control, something his/her momma and daddy didn't succeed in implanting in them.

There are a number of groups wide open to the disparagement of other members. So, why do people with this problem insist on coming into a lighthearted and uncomplicated group to incite division?

People like this deserve banning. They are no different than the geek wads who stalk a home and scream continuously into bullhorns day and night at the residents, condemning them for their beliefs on one subject or another.

These people are Sick Control Freaks. Ban 'em!
 
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Aunt Bea said:
I agree.

I have to admit that it does bother me when members take it upon themselves to be the whistle blowers and moderators instead of walking away and letting Matrix decide when something has crossed the line.
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If I'm not mistaken, Matrix is the owner and lone moderator, so he makes all the decisions. Realistically, he can't read each and every post in this forum, so he asks that members point it out when someone is making a political thread or offensive statement. It's like that in most forums.

Plus, we're all human, sometimes it's difficult to just ignore a post and not comment, especially if it is false or misleading.
 
HermitHogan said:
People get nasty when they talk about politics — thus the "no politics" rule.

If it were up to me, I'd just delete the offensive post but not ban anyone unless they were really nasty and repeatedly insulted people, but it's up to the owner of the site what the policies are.

Note, it's generally the people who can't defend their opinions with facts and logic who get nasty. There's always the "ignore" button for those people.
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I don't think the moderators need the extra time spent over and over again checking and screwing around with the same misfits. Just banning them makes life easier for the moderators. Of course, I'm speaking of repeated offenders with really bummer posts, not someone who simply makes a mistake once in a great while.

I've said it before: I luv banning. It's nice to have at least one spot in this turbulent world that is comfortably unoffensive.
 
The Doddering Biker said:
Let me say first, I am 90 years of age.

One reason - if not the main reason, for the profuseness of the hateful public discourse today is the senseless discard of a simple rule people my age grew up with: Do not discuss politics or religion.

Never in my early years did such unbridled hate and defamation exist on such a nationwide scale. Liberal and conservative "geniuses" in the communications and political arenas make millions per year by continually exacerbating this problem for their own profit.

What is happening to our modern world is very simple. This lesson is pervasive throughout history: Divide and Conquer.

The purveyors of this destructive method do not realize that history shows that they, too, will be destroyed by their greed for power.
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I think ''riffles ''happen rather fast over the internet and not so much outside of that as over internet things misconstrued , etc as you recall 60s were out of control times but no internet or IMO would have been worse .
 
Lewkat said:
I would not attempt to comment on the things I heard at some HOA meetings. It was worse than family court in many instances. Glad those folks have turned out to put grudges behind them and befriend you now. Good show.
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'' It was worse than family court in many instances.''

lol yes and if I told you things I have said myself I would be banned but you are so right .
 
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